fishfinder401

Sit inside sit ontop hybrid

17 posts in this topic

So, I'm curious what people would look for in a hybrid between a  sit inside and ontop kayaks, like what qualities would you want brought over from each style? 

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I would like to see a removable cockpit insert that gives the best of both worlds. In reality, a deep cockpit that would be easy to re-enter yet not hold large amounts of water. Look at the Bic Scarpa, its often called a hybrid kayak.

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I think you need to define what you mean by a hybrid. To me they're topologically different, one is a cup and one is a ball. It's either an unsinkable self-draining boat or not. 

 

As far as I'm concerned most SOTs are already hybrids between a kayak and a canoe, with that high seat & broad beam. 

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The SIK and SOT categories are somewhat misleading to begin with. Shouldn't it simply be "single-layer hull" vs. "double-layer"? I have yet to see a single-layer SOT or a double-layer SIK.

 

That Swell Scupper 14 seems like it's approaching SIK territory with the low seat and footwells, even though it's a SOT.

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1 hour ago, gellfex said:

I think you need to define what you mean by a hybrid. To me they're topologically different, one is a cup and one is a ball. It's either an unsinkable self-draining boat or not. 

 

As far as I'm concerned most SOTs are already hybrids between a kayak and a canoe, with that high seat & broad beam. 

you could for instance have the extremely low cup like cockpit of a sit in, with other parts of the kayak designed like a sit on, giving it lockable dry storage, and making it as unsinkable as a SOT

 

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56 mins ago, tj7501 said:

That Swell Scupper 14 seems like it's approaching SIK territory with the low seat and footwells, even though it's a SOT.

It's actually a throwback to the very first SOT's, by the same designer, who was trying get the performance of a SIK in an unsinkable SOT more suited to surfing.  And we're more or less saying the same thing about the boats when you say "single layer vs double layer"and I say "cup or ball". It's something not really suited to compromise, it's either one or the other.

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Posted (edited)

You can sit on top of a SIK, but you cant sit inside a SOT! This scupper, a mere 1.5 inches deep, is part if what separates the two designs. In a a SIK 1/4" separates you from the water, and through displacement you sit well below the surface.

PHOTO_20180809_161259.jpg

Edited by cheech

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4 hours ago, fishfinder401 said:

you could for instance have the extremely low cup like cockpit of a sit in, with other parts of the kayak designed like a sit on, giving it lockable dry storage, and making it as unsinkable as a SOT

 

I'm all for new ideas, but I was taught in industrial design school the 1st step of a design project is to research what's already on the market, and then see how to differentiate your product. Since you're closely describing the Scupper type boat, it's unclear what you're after.

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2 hours ago, kross57 said:

 

My Kaskazi Skua is an ARX version with the same type of hybrid cover. But its a 2005, so it didn't come with the cool music.

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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, gellfex said:

I'm all for new ideas, but I was taught in industrial design school the 1st step of a design project is to research what's already on the market, and then see how to differentiate your product. Since you're closely describing the Scupper type boat, it's unclear what you're after.

i probably didn't do the best job describing it(hard to really describe well in words the model that i see in my head), but what i am talking about is pretty different than the scupper, although that kaskazi marlin seems a little closer, but still substantially different

Edited by fishfinder401
forgot to add something

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59 mins ago, fishfinder401 said:

i probably didn't do the best job describing it(hard to really describe well in words the model that i see in my head)

Which is why the other first thing they teach you is drawing! :)

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If you sat in a SIK that had two stabilizing pontoons, you'd have a cup and two balls.

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1 hour ago, staktup said:

If you sat in a SIK that had two stabilizing pontoons, you'd have a cup and two balls.

Now THATS the kind of thinking that builds a better mousetrap!

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The one compartment yak in the foreground will sink in a heartbeat. The yak in the background has watertight storage fore and aft because of bulkheads surrounding the cockpit. Its unsinkable in theory. If one could design a similar hull, with a longer, wider, easy to enter/exit cockpit that somewhat enclosed the legs, you would have a hybrid SOT with the efficiency of a SIK. Once you have a cup, you have a place for water to accumulate. Making water go uphill is a feat even Archimedes couldn't master.

Screenshot_2017-06-10-17-31-47-1.png

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