The Riddler

Swell Scupper 14 Review

151 posts in this topic

Umm, the ball IS the check valve, or it's supposed to be. Floats up, plugs scupper. Does water come up through it when it's down and you're stopped?  If it only works when you mess with the pulling the plugs up and down all the time that's a disaster.

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Just now, gellfex said:

Umm, the ball IS the check valve, or it's supposed to be. Floats up, plugs scupper. Does water come up through it when it's down and you're stopped?  If it only works when you mess with the pulling the plugs up and down all the time that's a disaster.

how do you want me to answer this? :laugh:....Hopefuly swellguy comes in and posts.

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Just want to jump in and make a few points and can take any questions you guys have.

1.  the last inch or so of water if extremely hard to drain.  Just leave it in.  The weight gives a ballast effect.  In fact you can fill the cockpit with water and the boat still paddles just fine.

2.  It doesn't matter how much you weigh on that last inch.  An Olympic sprint paddler could get it out but it would take some serious effort.  

3.  you only engage the valve while draining.  99% of the time it sits in the upward, off position.  Water does not enter the cockpit thru it in this position.  

4. When it's engaged the ball stops most of the water from coming in, but allows the water to go out.  

5.  They drain slowly, but you sure as heck do not need to paddle a mile to drain the boat.  My estimate is 150 yards or a little over a minute to drain down the whole thing to 1.5".  Depends on tides, currents, your speed, weight. etc.  (p.s I weigh 190 and am 6'0").  

6.  The reason the footwells are all the way down is driven by posture, balance and power.  This kayak is stable.  Raise yourself up 2 inches and it's less stable.  The OK Scupper pro, to me, is extremely uncomfortable.  Dropping your feet all the way down solves this.  The stroke clears your lowered knees.  Nice.  

7.  We're talking about a serious trade off here.  If you want to survive the most extreme conditions and paddle several miles quickly without pain this is your kayak.  If you want to wear cotton tighty whitey underwear, this is NOT your boat.  There are plenty of kayaks to keep your butt dry.  I'll take superior turning, comfort, speed, safety and stability that these footwells provide.  No paddlers keep their feet dry anyway.  A little water sloshing around the ankle is not something that I even think about.  We're asking paddlers to open their minds and consider the trade off.  Kind of perverse to see the water as a problem in a water sport, but it's valid concern for some.  We don't expect everyone to come around as many are stuck in their ways or have legit reasons to stay dry.  

 

Thanks for the review Riddler!  

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2 mins ago, Swell Guy said:

Just want to jump in and make a few points and can take any questions you guys have.

1.  the last inch or so of water if extremely hard to drain.  Just leave it in.  The weight gives a ballast effect.  In fact you can fill the cockpit with water and the boat still paddles just fine.

2.  It doesn't matter how much you weigh on that last inch.  An Olympic sprint paddler could get it out but it would take some serious effort.  

3.  you only engage the valve while draining.  99% of the time it sits in the upward, off position.  Water does not enter the cockpit thru it in this position.  

4. When it's engaged the ball stops most of the water from coming in, but allows the water to go out.  

5.  They drain slowly, but you sure as heck do not need to paddle a mile to drain the boat.  My estimate is 150 yards or a little over a minute to drain down the whole thing to 1.5".  Depends on tides, currents, your speed, weight. etc.  (p.s I weigh 190 and am 6'0").  

6.  The reason the footwells are all the way down is driven by posture, balance and power.  This kayak is stable.  Raise yourself up 2 inches and it's less stable.  The OK Scupper pro, to me, is extremely uncomfortable.  Dropping your feet all the way down solves this.  The stroke clears your lowered knees.  Nice.  

7.  We're talking about a serious trade off here.  If you want to survive the most extreme conditions and paddle several miles quickly without pain this is your kayak.  If you want to wear cotton tighty whitey underwear, this is NOT your boat.  There are plenty of kayaks to keep your butt dry.  I'll take superior turning, comfort, speed, safety and stability that these footwells provide.  No paddlers keep their feet dry anyway.  A little water sloshing around the ankle is not something that I even think about.  We're asking paddlers to open their minds and consider the trade off.  Kind of perverse to see the water as a problem in a water sport, but it's valid concern for some.  We don't expect everyone to come around as many are stuck in their ways or have legit reasons to stay dry.  

 

Thanks for the review Riddler!  

That about sums it up right there. Your welcome. This will be an ongoing review. Be nice to have you come in and check in from time to time and give us some updated info.

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p.s were going to do a video soon with split screen on the water draining and the cell phone app "Waterspeed".  This will display exactly what it takes to drain the cockpit.  Will post when ready- thanks for your patience.  Still trying to get everything launched.  

 

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Just now, Swell Guy said:

p.s were going to do a video soon with split screen on the water draining and the cell phone app "Waterspeed".  This will display exactly what it takes to drain the cockpit.  Will post when ready- thanks for your patience.  Still trying to get everything launched.  

 

That would be awesome. Put it up on youtube and I will link it here.

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p.s. we've made changes to the boat even after the Riddlers kayak.  We took the bottom inch out of the bucket in the center hatch.  You can now get a 7 foot rod down the center.  However we actually built channels on the outside that a rod can fit into.  Fact is you can now fit three 7 foot rods into the bow hatch.  In the Riddler's kayak he can fit 2-on the outside.  We designed it for that.  

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Those are simple changes you can make to allow the 3rd rod. I don't deal with too much surf where my normal fishing spots are at but occasionally I'm up in areas where you must surf launch. I know the New York and Jersey guys deal with more surf on the East Coast than I do. So that's a nice feature allowing a rod to pass in the middle!

The kayak is so stable anyone at any skill level can paddle it and also shimmy up to the front hatch.

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It doesn't really feature great primary stability, it's secondary stability.  That's allows you to turn it easily with your hip.  We expected this somewhat but what we got is an experts' kayak that a beginner will intuitively feel comfortable in.  Rudder not necessary unless you're a rudder guy or want performance in foul weather.

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I think during the rigging process would it be possible to put a tag line or leash on the front hatch? That's something I have to do this week when I start rigging.  

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1 min ago, Swell Guy said:

It doesn't really feature great primary stability, it's secondary stability.  That's allows you to turn it easily with your hip.  We expected this somewhat but what we got is an experts' kayak that a beginner will intuitively feel comfortable in.  Rudder not necessary unless you're a rudder guy or want performance in foul weather.

When we get into larger fish the rudder comes in handy while being towed by fish but paddling wise I agree, it tracks well. For me at my weight I found this kayak to have good primary stability. It's comparable to the Prowler 13 and even Revo 13 for me.

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6 mins ago, The Riddler said:

When we get into larger fish the rudder comes in handy while being towed by fish but paddling wise I agree, it tracks well. For me at my weight I found this kayak to have good primary stability. It's comparable to the Prowler 13 and even Revo 13 for me.

good point.  Ocean fishermen would benefit from a rudder.

Edited by Swell Guy

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59 mins ago, Swell Guy said:

The OK Scupper pro, to me, is extremely uncomfortable.

 

Swell Guy, as I mentioned upthread I just bought an old Scupper Pro, as a way to kick the can down road till reviews are in, a demo is available nearby, and you've shaken out kinks just like you mentioned.   Can you explain the difference between the footwells that you mentioned?  I'm having a hard time seeing how the foot position is any different. That heel cup on the Pro can hardly be any lower!

Edited by gellfex

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1 hour ago, gellfex said:

 

Swell Guy, as I mentioned upthread I just bought an old Scupper Pro, as a way to kick the can down road till reviews are in, a demo is available nearby, and you've shaken out kinks just like you mentioned.   Can you explain the difference between the footwells that you mentioned?  I'm having a hard time seeing how the foot position is any different. That heel cup on the Pro can hardly be any lower!

It's probably just a few inches.  The pro holds water similar to our kayak.  With the new Scupper we 'kissed off' the top sheet to the bottom sheet for the entire length of the footwells.  This has never been done before, in fact when we started we didn't even know if it was possible so we baked a few 2 foot long kayaks we made in a temp mold and have had no problems doing it.  

The Scupper 14 footwells are totally flat, and the seat position allows for bended knees.  I feel when I'm in the Pro my legs are going straight with no bend at the knee, putting all the pressure on my waistline from paddling.  Because of an accident I had several years ago I really cannot paddle the Pro very long without pain.  Body position is one of the main progressions vs. the old pro.  

Also the bottom of the kayak is formed specifically to drop feet on the outside down low- with only 3/4" or so of plastic between feet and water.  The Pro has a more rounded bottom.  

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Thanks Jim. I've not gotten the Pro out yet, just sat in it dry, and it sure is different! Even though I came up in whitewater, this boat will take some getting used to. Both versions are a little problematic about where to put a soft cooler for keepers. Also, I can tell you this already about the 14, a center track forward of the Skucket to the bulkhead would be awesome for mounting both a fishfinder/gps and a trolling rod holder. I'm going to kludge just that onto the old Pro, so I can adjust them as I figure stuff out. That flat round area molded into the forward cockpit bulkhead on the Pro is too far for me to reach a rodholder there, so I assume your transverse track would be the same.  Below is a trolling holder track I added to a Scrambler and will do similar to the Pro, but the 14 could use a standard track on the flat cockpit deck.

 

post-15110-0-26606600-1467309039.jpg

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