The Riddler

Swell Scupper 14 Review

151 posts in this topic

36 mins ago, Slacker said:

If the thing won't drain unless you are moving at 4 kts, it is almost an open deck SIK.

Right now that is how the scuppers with venturi in this kayak are designed. Surfski venturi are also designed this way except they can achieve much fast speed easily than this hull.  Venturi’s work with momentum.  More momentum greater pull.  Greater pull faster flow of water out of a cockpit or footwell. 

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Which is fine if you're trolling, but sucks if you're just drifting and jigging and a wave comes over the gunwale. At that point you either need to paddle or bail.

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1 hour ago, The Riddler said:

Right now that is how the scuppers with venturi in this kayak are designed. Surfski venturi are also designed this way except they can achieve much fast speed easily than this hull.  Venturi’s work with momentum.  More momentum greater pull.  Greater pull faster flow of water out of a cockpit or footwell. 

Yes, that's what I have on my Kaskazi Marlin. But there is no adjustment on those. No closing or opening. And any forward movement seems to get them working. When you are moving forward it becomes bone dry.

 

The difference is, at rest, there is only 1-1 1/2 inches of water in my footwells, maximum. Not 3 or 4 inches. Even that is too much, because when you start forward all that water sloshes toward the back and goes into the seat. 

 

To fix that in mine, I fitted two 1-inch thick blocks of closed cell foam into the foot wells, leaving openings for the venturis. I glued velcro to the kayak and to the blocks so they were easy to remove. Works great.   

 

Honestly, it sounds like the footwells in your boat are set too far below the waterline. They should be at or slightly below it. At most there should be 1/2 inch of water in them, no matter what you do with the scupper drains. 

 

 

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28 mins ago, kross57 said:

it sounds like the footwells in your boat are set too far below the waterline.

In their literature it sounds like that was a design priority for what they consider a better paddling posture. FWIW I usually had some water sloshing around the footpegs scuppers in my Pescador 12 (old T120). Never bothered me.

 

From the designer Tim's site:

Quote

The trend for sit on top kayaks has been to make them more affordable without making the design much better. Most of them have the heels higher than the seat requiring a backrest and a slow kayak. 

 

Edited by gellfex

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31 mins ago, kross57 said:

Yes, that's what I have on my Kaskazi Marlin. But there is no adjustment on those. No closing or opening. And any forward movement seems to get them working. When you are moving forward it becomes bone dry.

 

The difference is, at rest, there is only 1-1 1/2 inches of water in my footwells, maximum. Not 3 or 4 inches. Even that is too much, because when you start forward all that water sloshes toward the back and goes into the seat. 

 

To fix that in mine, I fitted two 1-inch thick blocks of closed cell foam into the foot wells, leaving openings for the venturis. I glued velcro to the kayak and to the blocks so they were easy to remove. Works great.   

 

Honestly, it sounds like the footwells in your boat are set too far below the waterline. They should be at or slightly below it. At most there should be 1/2 inch of water in them, no matter what you do with the scupper drains. 

 

 

Do you have removable scupper plugs eith ventui on your Kaskazi?  If so, whsts the size and where can I buy a set?

 

I believe it was designed like this to accommodate a larger paddler.  I could be wrong though.  Better down then up or wider!  I hear what you are saying though you can only go so far down before ypu have to deal with more water or increase the volume.  

Edited by The Riddler

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9 mins ago, The Riddler said:

Do you have removable scupper plugs eith ventui on your Kaskazi?  If so, whsts the size and where can I buy a set?

I was looking at the venturi scuppers of the Dorado when I was buying the SP from Ross, it looks like it would be easy to DIY, they were just rubber flaps! Ross, would you post a pic?

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You can have the ones in the package 5/8"-1" if you need them. Speeding up in a flooded v-hull and pulling the drain plug has the same effect as a venturI scupper.

PHOTO_20180801_181149.jpg

Edited by cheech
Picture

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Here is a picture of the plugs. Holes face the stern the blank side faces bow.  Note the reason why you have to push the plugs down to engage the drain and up to seal it. 3rd pics shows the ball.

 

 

 

 

C60DB3D6-7154-4ADA-9E29-37A26AEBC8CF.jpeg

50A766C1-751A-469E-AF3A-CD467CC6FB59.jpeg

3A8F7646-9E72-40FE-A218-03EF2A43EB02.jpeg

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4 mins ago, cheech said:

You can have the ones in the package 5/8"-1" if you need them. Speeding up in a flooded v-hull and pulling the drain plug has the same effect as a venturI scupper.

PHOTO_20180801_181149.jpg

Too small but thanks for offering.  

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1 hour ago, The Riddler said:

Do you have removable scupper plugs eith ventui on your Kaskazi?  If so, whsts the size and where can I buy a set?

 

I believe it was designed like this to accommodate a larger paddler.  I could be wrong though.  Better down then up or wider!  I hear what you are saying though you can only go so far down before ypu have to deal with more water or increase the volume.  

On mine they are not removable. It's just the shape and a flapper valve. Not water tight. I'll post a pic when I get a chance.

 

With that much water in the footwells on yours, what you need is a one-way valve that lets water out but not in. Otherwise it may be a pretty serious design flaw. 

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1 hour ago, kross57 said:

With that much water in the footwells on yours, what you need is a one-way valve that lets water out but not in. Otherwise it may be a pretty serious design flaw. 

I believe that is exactly what they have, I recall the description of it in the webpage they took down.  You can see the ball float in Riddler's pics.

 

I was just messing around with the Scupper Pro, and notice that the solution then was the deep heel cups! The cup can fill from an open scupper but it's limited and can't fill the whole cockpit even though the bottom of the cup is only 1" above the hull.

5b624b6017626_scupperscupper.JPG.587155aa9d5052dcb15c8a6f6abeb8b6.JPG

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13 mins ago, gellfex said:

I believe that is exactly what they have, I recall the description of it in the webpage they took down.  You can see the ball float in Riddler's pics.

 

 

The footwells were dropped below the water line. That is the performance design. I agree that this venturi system should be redesigned. It can be better.

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2 mins ago, The Riddler said:

The footwells were dropped below the water line. That is the performance design. I agree that this venturi system should be redesigned. It can be better.

But there is a check valve in them, right? A you can see in my pic, the footwell in the older boat is damn low too. That's an inch between the footwell and the hull.

Edited by gellfex

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1 min ago, gellfex said:

But there is a check valve in them, right?

There is no check valve. Look at the photo's. When the ball floats up it would stop water from coming up. When you pull the plugs up the rubber stops the water. When under momentum after pushing the plug down the ball is designed to pull down and let water out.

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