Tin Boat

Switch rod doubts

70 posts in this topic

Mike,

 

I remember you telling me that story. I've never been on the beach when it's been that snotty out. 

 

I could have sworn you told me before that the 11/12 was good for 500-550, and the 12/13 was good for 650, and the 13/14 was good for 800+. I casted your 11/12 12'9" with 530 and it was a dream, just an ideal setup. Even 525 on the 12/13 works great, though I know it could easily take 650 and boss it. Can't speak for the 13/14 yet but I will before too long!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Red I did. The 14 footer you cast was the 12-13. Dougie tried it with 750 and it flew. It surprised me. I had it down as 650. Mind Dougie has a slower delivery.

 

The 12’ 9”  you also threw was the 11-12.

 

There are two of what you desire in the near offing.

 

Mike

Edited by Mike Oliver

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, Killiefish said:

It is called a "Surf" rod by Beulah, but in the 7/8w version (11' 4 piece, around 6oz) I personally consider it to be a switch rod because of its rather short length.   ...

Thanks.  I was under the impression that the original definition of a "switch rod," as monikered by Bob Meiser, was one that would work reasonably well for both spey and 2-handed overhead casting.

 

I have a 9/10 Beulah "surf" rod, one of the original series rather than the newer "Opal."  It's on the light side for me, especially compared to the CND 11 footers I've been using for years, particularly the tip. and I've been tempted to chop off the top 4-6 inches to "improve" it.  Haven't had the courage to do it yet, tho.

 

I also have a Beulah 7/8 "switch rod," also an older model.  Lately it's been my "travel two-hander" because it's 10.5' and 4 piece so it fits into my fishing travel duffel.  It's also fun to fish with (for me). I've been using 400-425 gr lines with it but after seeing your post online wt, I tried it last night with a 9 wt short Outbound, 375 gr, and by golly it feels like a better weight for it.  I was casting a weighted 5" deceiver and was hitting 85-90 feet with it, which is more than good enough for that rod.  Of course, this was in a very light cross-breeze on level ground.  Standing in 2' of water in a stronger wind would be a bigger challenge.  I like using this rod because overall I prefer fishing with lighter, shorter equipment.  I feel more connected when I do.  But I wouldn't use it on Nauset Beach unless it's dead calm or very close to it.

 

 

 

Edited by GregPavlov

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Greg

 

Interesting. I have always considered Switch rods in the same way as Bob Meiser. That’s totally logical. To me makes little sense to design a rod to be cast with TH and then use just one sometimes. I think the meaning got corrupted along the way and that many consider it to mean being able to cast one or two handed. People can chose to cast their rods which ever way they wish but I don’t think that this was the original design intent.

 

mike

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Killiefish said:

It is called a "Surf" rod by Beulah, but in the 7/8w version (11' 4 piece, around 6oz) I personally consider it to be a switch rod because of its rather short length.   Other manufacturers have called their short TH rods "Beach" rods (Echo has several short TH models labeled Beach rods).   The ones that are under around 11.5' or so are generally termed switch rods by the majority of the community that fishes them out here in the Pacific NW which is where I am.  We fish them in salt, fresh, flats, wherever we can or want to. 

 

Unlike someone here who criticizes these rods as inadequate (which they may be for use in "serious out front conditions") I believe that they have better potential - when lined properly and in the right conditions they are fine tools. 

 

Like other 11' - 11.5' 7/8 (ish) weight rods, the Beulah 7/8w "Surf" rod is actually plenty light enough and short/nimble enough to use single handed, albeit occasionally, but it is not intended to be a single hand rod exclusively (hence - in most sessions you "switch" back from single hand back to two hand use pretty quick).   When using single handed, over any length of time, one must keep the butt of the rod firmly anchored to your forearm, which with a 7 weight 11' rod is fairly easy to do if you have good forearm and wrist strength.  One can even single or double haul if one likes to do that.  I wouldn't recommend this for everyone though.  It takes some getting used to but is a modality that works.

 

Killie, I have the 11' Opal Surf 7/8 that I cast a 450gr line and a 10w Rio Outbound short with equal distance and trocity,,,, is that a word.. Anyway as of right now it's my favorite SW fly rod that I only overhead cast with it. I will match it to anyone's single hand 10w anytime. No, it's not a high surf, windy kinda rod (I will be building one of those this winter) but it handles everything else just extremely well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Mike Oliver said:

Greg

 

Interesting. I have always considered Switch rods in the same way as Bob Meiser. That’s totally logical. To me makes little sense to design a rod to be cast with TH and then use just one sometimes. I think the meaning got corrupted along the way and that many consider it to mean being able to cast one or two handed. People can chose to cast their rods which ever way they wish but I don’t think that this was the original design intent.

 

mike

I believe that Bob came up with the concept and the name.

 

I believe it became corrupted by sports writers/rod reviewers.  At least, that is who I first saw confuse the term.

 

And now, as I suspect you've seen, we have 9-foot SH/TH rods, such as GLoomis's and Temple Fork's.  "Switch" rods???

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Tin Boat said:

Mike,

 

.... What I want from TH is increased distance without undue wear on my 85-year-old shoulder. My TH cast is erratic, sometimes well over 100', ........

 

Tin 

Bless you, that made my day (pushing 70 and occasionally worrying about how many years I have left to work the surf).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’m getting my Beulah Opal 7/8 out of storage today! So much good intel on this thread.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tried an old SA WF-11-S "Slimeline" on the Beulah Opal 7/8. Casts the whole line, 100'. Feels like a better match than the 450 gr, Serum. Thanks for advice to try different lines on this rod. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Tin Boat said:

Tried an old SA WF-11-S "Slimeline" on the Beulah Opal 7/8. Casts the whole line, 100'. Feels like a better match than the 450 gr, Serum. Thanks for advice to try different lines on this rod. 

Great that you have dialed in a line.  Makes a huge difference IMO.

 

BTW, that line is the same one I've been using  on an 11'9" 7wt switch rod (Ross Reach), and 11' 8wt switch (Cabelas TLR).  Both of these are very close to the Beulah in line handling - I consider them 7/8w rods.  The head on mine weighs ~410gr.   Both rods also really like a Beulah Elixir scandi line in 390g (floating) for TH overhead.

Edited by Killiefish

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There isn't any grain rating on my 11 wt. "Slime Line". Too old, I imagine, but still casts well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's no grainage data on mine either.  More and more I am using a $25 digital scale and with a sharpie marking the actual grain weight on the box(es) or on a poly bag where I store the line(s).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great thread-  I'm thinking about converting my mileage check this month into an Opal 9/10.  My old Loop Signature series 9 wt will push 120' with a 450 Skagit head and 12.5 T14 tip and a big fly if wind is not a factor..., but wind is always a factor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Realistic expectations and fair comparisons are needed.

 

If a 9’ 9wt is the standard NE saltwater fly rod, throwing 9wt lines or 350-375 grain head, then a DH 11’ throwing 450 grains is very comparable.  Comparable because two-hand rods are effectively shorter than specs due to their long grips, and because DH rods develop intrinsically less line speed (& casting inertia) than what’s capable with a good single-hand rod when double hauled.  

 

For me, an 11’ DH rod throwing 450 grains is for effective all-day lower-fatigue casting, at performance comparable to what a 9’ 9wt can do.  And fun, too.  However, expecting more isn’t realistic.  

Edited by SSPey
sp.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’m confused.

Reading lightly the old post  from 4 or 2 years back here on this subject. I’m truly thinking  that the first guy/s who test cast a single hand fly rod for the surf must be blame here!  In other words, looks like they start backwards, they just over look the base, the root, the foundation on the mechanics for a efficient cast, the different types of lever class principals that suits best the casters strength diversity with muscles and tendons structure variation on the humans arms, the greedy market keep fighting to this days that casting a 9’ 9# fly rod is something we are designed to do, why not a Switch fly rod from the start?  Same way few SOL members here successfully “tune up” carp rods blanks and fly lines  to create a TH surf fly rod.

 

Hats off to them, but I wonder why this  guys back in the 50’s didn’t start to play with a conventional TH light tackle spinning rods? If they did, I’m sure the market evolution will definitely be other.

 

Anyway...
Not my intention in promoting videos or fly rods brands here please guys, honestly,  any fly rod blank would work for my poor skills casting stroke as longer I’m able to use two hands with it and the line weight reach close to the max rod blank loading point. 

 

Im just following a basic SOLer principal on passing information in today’s digital era, obviously if you look my number of contributions here since I first sing in, I’m not a good PC writer, so I try to do what I like best from other SOL members, less words and more real field test facts, this time is on the Switch fly rods.

 

A picture is word a 1000 words. So Im thinking, a video is the best I can do now for those interested on what a first class lever on a TH short blank fly rod can do for us with the right line length and mass set up. 


This is a 2012- 11’ Beulah Surf 8/9#,  rig with a 550 Skagit short head, a 4 seasons long roll casting only fly rod set up, today’s clip is a constant and efficient Single Spey, easy all day from 50’ and up to 90’ with no aerial back cast needed. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to register here in order to participate.

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.