Bdawk2020

New Pedal kayak from Pelican?

292 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

21 mins ago, tj7501 said:

I am guessing that it is different for cost-saving reasons, not as an indication of a revolutionary new way to attach a drive to a kayak. It was probably easier/cheaper to make the plastic cassette separately and screwing that to the kayak, rather than trying to make attachment more "built-in" to the kayak with heavier plastic in the mold.

 

 

Or there was significant R&D put into it and it was designed that way to mitigate the hull cracking issue that runs rampant in hobies. At the very worst, the cassette would crack and you can pop it out and pop in a new one, instead of having to replace your whole hull and pray you dont sink when it cracks out on the water..

Edited by Baitbucket

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36 mins ago, Baitbucket said:

Or there was significant R&D put into it and it was designed that way to mitigate the hull cracking issue that runs rampant in hobies. At the very worst, the cassette would crack and you can pop it out and pop in a new one, instead of having to replace your whole hull and pray you dont sink when it cracks out on the water..

Maybe. It's all speculation right now. But I strongly doubt that the cassette is the result of heavy R&D, when the company outright copies a drive design and drops the cost of the boat by a $1,000. What will pay for all that R&D? Maybe they are hoping to sell huge numbers at that price to offset the cost.

 

One potential problem with the cassette design is that the screws and their inserts in the hull are taking significant lateral loads from through the cassette. It is conceivable that hull cracks may form at the screw inserts in the hull. Unless the cassette is designed to take most of the load and break before the screws fail. I guess time will tell.

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23 mins ago, tj7501 said:

Maybe. It's all speculation right now. But I strongly doubt that the cassette is the result of heavy R&D, when the company outright copies a drive design and drops the cost of the boat by a $1,000. What will pay for all that R&D? Maybe they are hoping to sell huge numbers at that price to offset the cost.

 

One potential problem with the cassette design is that the screws and their inserts in the hull are taking significant lateral loads from through the cassette. It is conceivable that hull cracks may form at the screw inserts in the hull. Unless the cassette is designed to take most of the load and break before the screws fail. I guess time will tell.

These are thermoformed from sheet plastic in 2 pieces and welded together around the edges.  Based on the manufacturing process, you can't mold in a drive well or rod holders for that matter.

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26 mins ago, tj7501 said:

One potential problem with the cassette design is that the screws and their inserts in the hull are taking significant lateral loads from through the cassette. It is conceivable that hull cracks may form at the screw inserts in the hull. Unless the cassette is designed to take most of the load and break before the screws fail. I guess time will tell.

While you are correct about the lateral loads being transferred to the screws, you don't account for the distance from the center of torque reducing the pressure linearly. On the Hobie that load is engaging the molded plastic a couple of inches from center, while these screws are at least 5 times as far, and there's at least 8 by my count. Now, do you see how the outer screws are in "U" shaped recess? If I had designed this, that recess would be a raised area on the bottom that engages a molded in receptacle on the deck. This is how high stress connections are made, not with the fasteners but with structure, like using a spline for a drive shaft rather than a set screw on a flat, or mortise and tenon joints rather than just wood screws in furniture. When I make high stress drives, I use hexagonal shafts and broach the pulley or arm with a hex hole. Never gonna slip!

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9 mins ago, gellfex said:

While you are correct about the lateral loads being transferred to the screws, you don't account for the distance from the center of torque reducing the pressure linearly. On the Hobie that load is engaging the molded plastic a couple of inches from center, while these screws are at least 5 times as far, and there's at least 8 by my count. Now, do you see how the outer screws are in "U" shaped recess? If I had designed this, that recess would be a raised area on the bottom that engages a molded in receptacle on the deck. This is how high stress connections are made, not with the fasteners but with structure, like using a spline for a drive shaft rather than a set screw on a flat, or mortise and tenon joints rather than just wood screws in furniture. When I make high stress drives, I use hexagonal shafts and broach the pulley or arm with a hex hole. Never gonna slip!

Makes sense. Maybe the bottom of the cassette has a grooves that fit the hull like a puzzle piece, taking most of the stress. Maybe the screws are only for secondary attachment. The popping screw that Riddler noted is a slight red flag though. Indicates the cassette wanting to lift as the pedal is pushed forward.

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18 mins ago, tj7501 said:

 The popping screw that Riddler noted is a slight red flag though. Indicates the cassette wanting to lift as the pedal is pushed forward.

If this is a "rushed to show" prototype, I wouldn't  rule out that someone just didn't tighten it down properly. Happens. Has happened to me, and is pretty embarrassing when you get a call that something has fallen off the rig!

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8 hours ago, Baitbucket said:

Its the same width and 5in longer than hobies best selling kayak, the outback... For roughly half the price.

Im not sure what this is supposed to mean. But you can flutter pedal these drives and get thru pretty much any depth of water that the kayak hull can clear.

Meaning you have no reverse, your drive unit is in middle of the hull . Hindering you ability to make tight turns . That’s why you will still need a paddle . 

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4 hours ago, tj7501 said:

LOL Judging by the straight replication of the mirage drive, the answer is probably close to zero.

It should be fun. 

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I think the hull will be molded like Hobie's for water tightness. The insert may be a sandwich design with long  bolts holding the halves together.

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17 mins ago, cheech said:

I think the hull will be molded like Hobie's for water tightness. The insert may be a sandwich design with long  bolts holding the halves together.

Thats what we hoped for but it  doesn't look that way really right now. 

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19 mins ago, The Riddler said:

Thats what we hoped for but it  doesn't look that way really right now. 

Instead of guessing maybe you guys should contact a Pelican rep and see if he wants to comment in the thread the way Jim from Swell did in the Scupper thread.

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3 hours ago, cheech said:

I think the hull will be molded like Hobie's for water tightness. The insert may be a sandwich design with long  bolts holding the halves together.

In one of the videos the Pelican person specifically commented that the hull is thermoformed, 2 piece welded together.  It's not rotomolded. 

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Posted (edited)

14 hours ago, gellfex said:

Instead of guessing maybe you guys should contact a Pelican rep and see if he wants to comment in the thread the way Jim from Swell did in the Scupper thread.

I reached out to them yesterday. Evidently, they are swamped with inquiries lol

 

I asked about specifics on the drive well and if their warranty is the same as it if for their other kayaks.

Edited by Baitbucket

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On 7/6/2018 at 4:24 PM, nateD said:

But they don't hold ice longer, according to videos I've seen, I have zero personal experience with the coolers. I do know that my 30 dollar Yeti cup is no better than my 7 dollar walmart cup.  Sometimes brand name reflects quality, sometimes it doesn't, I guess we'll see with these knock-off mirage drives.  Hobie has owned this market for so long they can price things whatever they feel like. Competition is always a good thing for the consumer IMO.

Youre dead wrong on this one. I have two yeti coolers and the ice lasts a long time. That yeti mug youre talking about is just crap. Get the yeti 75. Thats what yeti is all about.

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