Theflyguy

Two hand rods for the salt

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35 mins ago, flyrad10 said:

I am either a terrible two handed caster or my tackle sucked  but I was dwarfed by spin fishermen casting  tin and teasers in the surf on the south shore of Long Island in late November early December, fishing into surf and 10-20 knot head winds (humble estimate of wind speed), who were catching schoolies by casting out beyond breaking waves into relatively calmer waters. My pathetic 60 ft casts, at best, found no action but maybe the surf was too rough for the bait or they weren’t in close or maybe I should have used a full sinking head instead of a floater with a sink tip. Who knows?

No way anyone is casting as far as you can bomb diamond jigs with a surf spinning set up. I fish the south shore LI surf as well and sometimes the fish are too far out on a bar to reach with a fly rod. Simple as that. But plenty of times they are in close. If surf is heavy and heavy sweep it’s tough though. Need a heavy clouser and sinking line or a fast sink tip.

 

there are times when fly rods of any type won’t work but it’s also more fun to get those schoolies on a fly rod rather than dragging them across the surface of the water on heavy surf spin set up. 

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On 2/4/2020 at 11:55 AM, Stripsettter said:

Damn was tough to separate the sections! Had to ice it.

 

top piece weighed in at 2oz exactly.

The weight of the top section only of my rod Emcast 12' 3-6oz is 2.71 oz.  Could be the difference in weight of guides or else we have different blanks.  Most likely different blanks.  

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5 hours ago, Stripsettter said:

No way anyone is casting as far as you can bomb diamond jigs with a surf spinning set up. I fish the south shore LI surf as well and sometimes the fish are too far out on a bar to reach with a fly rod. Simple as that. But plenty of times they are in close. If surf is heavy and heavy sweep it’s tough though. Need a heavy clouser and sinking line or a fast sink tip.

 

there are times when fly rods of any type won’t work but it’s also more fun to get those schoolies on a fly rod rather than dragging them across the surface of the water on heavy surf spin set up. 

For what its worth I use the Rio Levithan 500 grain 26th sink integrated line on my T&T 12wt.  It sinks at 9 inches per second.  This was the first season I found consistent success fishing surf at night with a fly rod and I credit it to that fly line.  The other key was using @RedGreen foul proof hollow flies.  I was fishing in pitch black conditions and managed to tag some 24-29 inch fish in 6-8 foot waves.  I also went out in stupidly big waves and managed to hook a much larger fish (20-25lb class) with the same set up, but lost her on the last wave.  Honestly those waves were too big and I should not have been out there so won't go out in conditions that bad again unless I am using surf tackle and casting a safe distance from the crashing surf.  In previous years I tried an intermediate head with mini sink tips, but never connected in moderate to big surf.  I think the combination of a fly that does not foul and staying near bottom under the whitewater and through the trough is why my results were much better in the surf this past fall.

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Posted (edited) · Report post

In my opinion the best spinning rods to be converted into two hands fly rods are those known as "japanese seabass rods". Lighter, thinner and faster than most of carp rods. Generally more expensive

Finding out a 11' Daiwa spinning rod (30-60gr casting weight) with HVF or X45 blank would be a very good option (example: Daiwa Lateo 110MH - 170gr weight)

Daiwa uses great HVF blanks also for cheap hardwared rods, ideal to dismantle a new rod without crying

The problem is japanese market now tends to shorten seabass rods, years ago was easy to find 12' rods too. Now also 11' rods are not so common. Finding out a cheap used rod would be nice.

To my 10' Daiwa Lexa was added one feet of  butt using an heavy carbon piece of an old broken rod.

The total weight is 220gr and I imagine that starting with a 11' rod the final weight would have been lighter. It cast with authority more than 800grains.

At the end was only an experiment as in my fishing spots and for my main target, the european seabass, that rod is highly overpowered.

 

Here you can find some details about this rod

 

Edited by Paolo

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30-60 grams casting weight is 1-2 oz.  That's a difficult weight range to find in an 11' to 12' spinning rod, at least in the U.S.  Can understand why people are looking at carp rod blanks/rods to convert as these are more likely to be light weight and designated for 30-60 grams or so. 

 

Wondering how well an Okuma Rockaway rod (11' or 12', designated 3/4 to 3 oz) would perform if converted to THOH.  It's a very light rod with a stiff tip.  Built rod is 10.5 oz for the 11' and 11 oz for the 12'.  Two piece. 

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11 mins ago, Killiefish said:

30-60 grams casting weight is 1-2 oz.  That's a difficult weight range to find in an 11' to 12' spinning rod, at least in the U.S.  Can understand why people are looking at carp rod blanks/rods to convert as these are more likely to be light weight and designated for 30-60 grams or so. 

 

Wondering how well an Okuma Rockaway rod (11' or 12', designated 3/4 to 3 oz) would perform if converted to THOH.  It's a very light rod with a stiff tip.  Built rod is 10.5 oz for the 11' and 11 oz for the 12'.  Two piece. 

I just had a look at that killie. Could be possible. My NFC 12'3'' rod weighed around 8.4 ounces I think and wasn't enough (blank was 4.9-5 ounces) so there's some possibility that okuma could work. The big indicator will be the weight of the blank and it's quality of material. It'd be worth a waggle for sure if you could find one in person. Otherwise it's a gamble.

 

If the blank ends up being like 6+ ounces and high quality graphite (not too floppy) it would be a good option for sure. I don't think it'd be better than a carp rod though. On par for sure.

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53 mins ago, RedGreen said:

I just had a look at that killie. Could be possible. My NFC 12'3'' rod weighed around 8.4 ounces I think and wasn't enough (blank was 4.9-5 ounces) so there's some possibility that okuma could work. The big indicator will be the weight of the blank and it's quality of material. It'd be worth a waggle for sure if you could find one in person. Otherwise it's a gamble.

 

If the blank ends up being like 6+ ounces and high quality graphite (not too floppy) it would be a good option for sure. I don't think it'd be better than a carp rod though. On par for sure.

There is also a 12' 1-4 oz model in that line.  I have the 11' 3/4 to 3oz and will try a few practice casts with some lines.  My guess is that it's top end would be a 550-600g line.  The 12' 3/4 oz to 4 maybe 600-650g and the 12 1-4 oz maybe 700g.  The rod weights above include handle, guides and wraps.  Okuma indicates that the tips are reinforced on these.  I've thrown 4 oz lead on the 11 footer.

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Please let us know what you find killie. 550 minimum would put you at the starting range of useful line weights for out front. The 12'er would be more floppy assuming it's relative power is the same as the 11'er.

 

As a tertiary question, how well does your 11'er throw 3/4 ounce plugs and such? I converted by NFC TH rod to a 10'10'' light surf rod as it just wasn't seeing any use and I had a shore albie trip that needed a longer rod. It's great for stuff up to about 2 ounces but above that it's undergunned. I've got a 1-6 ounce rod I'll be building but one day I'd like something just a bit more powerful than my NFC for a big better overlap between kit capabilities.

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RedGreen, which NFC blank did you convert to spinning - was it their FASY 1409-4 (same numerology as yr famous Pac Bay)

PS: The Pac Bay FASY 1409-4 seems to be pretty much unavailable, I bought one (still not finished) from Greg's Custom Rods in WA.

Also, have you all checked out the Black Hole blanks & maybe Ksong would take someone's advice on what a 2H out front blank should be.

 

Hey - nice to have so much positive & hopeful to & fro info ...

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1 hour ago, RedGreen said:

Please let us know what you find killie. 550 minimum would put you at the starting range of useful line weights for out front. The 12'er would be more floppy assuming it's relative power is the same as the 11'er.

 

As a tertiary question, how well does your 11'er throw 3/4 ounce plugs and such? I converted by NFC TH rod to a 10'10'' light surf rod as it just wasn't seeing any use and I had a shore albie trip that needed a longer rod. It's great for stuff up to about 2 ounces but above that it's undergunned. I've got a 1-6 ounce rod I'll be building but one day I'd like something just a bit more powerful than my NFC for a big better overlap between kit capabilities.

Already have rods that can do 550g+.    If I converted the Rockaway 11' I have it would be as a backup.  The 10' rod is light but too short.  The 12' rods are probably both o.k. for conversion.

 

Again there's a Rockaway:

 

10' 1-4 oz

11' 3/4 - 3 oz

12' 3/4 - 3 oz (seems a bit stiffer than the above 11')

12' 1-4 oz (not that different than the above rod)

 

I think the lower end of 3/4 on the two middle rods is a push.  They are frankly better with 1 oz.  Although you might want to contact Smellfish on this site to ask him.  He uses one of the lighter weight Rockaway rods to throw smaller plugs and metal lures and seems to like it a lot.  Not sure which one he uses.

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2 hours ago, Killiefish said:

30-60 grams casting weight is 1-2 oz.  That's a difficult weight range to find in an 11' to 12' spinning rod, at least in the U.S.  Can understand why people are looking at carp rod blanks/rods to convert as these are more likely to be light weight and designated for 30-60 grams or so

Yes Killie, these 10'-12' rods are not so common. Out of Japan I think they are only employed along the high cliffs of the rough Atlantic coast of Spain where seabsss anglers have to cast long into very big waves. If I were an avid american striper angler I would try these rods into the surf to cast any kind of lure from the beach. I think also in France and England are well known but not so much as in Spain. Sincerely I have never had a modern carp rod in my hands but I don't think a carp rod (in general) has the same progressive action and the same thin and sensible tip. The action of these rods is quite similar in my opinion to a modern fast fly rod.

The only problem is that now is quite impossible to find seabass rods longer than 11'

 

That Okuma seems much heavier (+100gr)than a 11' Lexa or Lateo Daiwa which blank quality I can guarantee. 

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Posted (edited) · Report post

There is a blog where you can find the most accurate japanese seabass rods tests out of Japan :-D

Absolutely not commercial, a bible for north spanish anglers 

It is in spanish but you could make yourself an idea. 

Edited by Paolo

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1 hour ago, frazerp said:

RedGreen, which NFC blank did you convert to spinning - was it their FASY 1409-4 (same numerology as yr famous Pac Bay)

PS: The Pac Bay FASY 1409-4 seems to be pretty much unavailable, I bought one (still not finished) from Greg's Custom Rods in WA.

Also, have you all checked out the Black Hole blanks & maybe Ksong would take someone's advice on what a 2H out front blank should be.

 

Hey - nice to have so much positive & hopeful to & fro info ...

No, mine was the SA1235-4, which is a salmon spinning blank.

 

About the FASY1409-4 from NFC,

I know I have been skeptical in the past about them on here but that was really ignorance and Jade on my part, and I should have given it a closer look. After stripsetter messaged me about it, I am fairly curious myself. It's got the same posted dimensions as the pac bay 14'er, so it's possible it's the same mandrel as the quicklines given their discontinuance from pac bay, but we'll never know until someone bites a possible bullet and sees how it is. If I needed to build a new pac bay 13' build I might consider trying it out. For now I'm set, and if I needed another rod I'd just buy one of Mike's blanks anyways. Other than maybe restricted funding, there is no reason not to go with Mike's blanks. Simply the absolute best.

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On 22.6.2018 at 10:05 AM, crunch said:

If you wan't to build yourself the NGT Dynamic Travel Carp 11ft 2,75lb 4pc is very goog buy

Hello Esa! Looking for a surf TH rod, I found your recommendation. Do you know if there are also NGT blanks to buy? I wrote an email to the stuff guys a few days ago but didn't receive an answer yet.

Cheers from Germany ! 

Vlad

Edited by pik_joker

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Gentlemen,

 

I am on the fly division sub committee for the South Shore Striper Tournament, which sole purpose is raising money for the non-profit North South River Watershed Alliance.  The NSRWA does tons of great work restoring the watershed you should check out their website and recent article about Third Herring Brooks dam removal, subsequent finding of wild trout and receiving cold water fisheries protection from State of Massachusetts. 

 

One idea that I wanted to incorporate into the weekend long event was to have a free saltwater two hand clinic open to fly division participants.  Was interested to know if people would travel to fish the tournament for the added benefit of the free TH clinic.  We would use a certified FFI THIC instructor possibly two depending on interest level.  It would be great to get some of the custom rod guys to come with the real cannons for TH OH.  The clinic would most likely be held at Webb State Park in Weymouth, MA on either Saturday June 13th.  If there is a ton of interest we might make it not just instructional, but an outing with lunch.  We would do the clinic middle of the day to avoid prime shore fishing hours so people can seriously participate in the tournament as well.

 

The tournament format is single longest fish C&R only starting 5pm on Friday (6/12/2020) ending noon on Sunday (6/14/2020) with a very large area available for fishermen to spread out.  So totally different format that Cheeky with night fishing allowed, lots of tide options over two days/nights, and focus on landing a quality fish over stacking up smaller fish.  We are working through what kind of requirements we want to make for measuring fish (most likely in the water) to ensure there is minimal impact from the C&R activities of the tournament. 

 

 

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