Theflyguy

Two hand rods for the salt

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28 mins ago, Stripsettter said:

I checked out the T&T excocett at the show. Really nice rod but seems similar to the GLoomis 11’3” Crosscurrent specialized that I have which is shorter and less stout than what I have in mind as a two hander for the surf. I cast 550 grains on it and that’s probably a bit much and I only get a little more distance than my single hand rods. Looking for 12 ft plus that can cast 700+ grain lines 100feet with one backcast 
 

Glad to hear you’re working with some rod manufacturers! Hope we get a factory option or two 

the solution is very simple

you are looking for 2 piece rod

for travell you are looking for 3 or 4 pieces rod

carp rod 2.75 lb you can cast 900 grain,

3.00 lb is much hevier casting 1200 grain to much work

you looking for weight off the rod around 10 oz or less and best prize

 

you can use this rod as is,i was thinking i will modify that rod.

i got that rod and i put fly reel on that 900 grain shooting head and went to field cast.

the setup look wierd but casting that 10 days i got used the wierd look and it was teling me do not modify anything,i use that as is and it work perfect.

with left hand i cast 90'

with right hand i cast 120'

 

when i put the fly reel in that rod with out modifying the reel seat i am happy i did not modify that seat.

i can not stand the seat on the botom off the rod.

when i cast the seat is above my second hand,it do not tangle when i cast never one time,i hold the line with top and botom hand i have perfect control,if you hold that line in one hand you loose controll over line it is sliping.

when i strip i put the rod but between legs and strip to basket in front or on left side.

 

when i cast one roll lift that fly off water one time shoot back and one time forward,that is it.

 

just learn to operate rod as is,

advantige,biger eylets will not freeze that easy and shooting head fly beter thrue eylets then small fly eylets.

 

there is no advantige to have fly reel between 2 hands or on the botom.

i prefer my fly reel above second hand ,i did not know that till i started using that that way.

 

when i got that rod and i mooved the reel seat down i would never know what i know now,i am glad i did that.

i do not care abouth balance my rod.

i can use that 6  hours or more with out problem.

 

why i lern to cast with no dominant arm ?

i am on long beach and the wind is coming from right side 30 MPH and i cast dominent arm right,you roll lift the fly off water one time back the wind catch fly and one time forwar and the fly is in my ass,now i realize i have to learn to cast non dominent arm becouse the wind will not alow me to cast right arm.

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19 hours ago, The Graveyard Shift said:

I love my T&T TH OH rods, but fully understand why people cannot afford the price tag.

 

I am working on two different rod companies for an affordable model.  I am taking some key players at each company out in the surf this season and showing them why its such a great option for the shore bound fly angler.  Hoping to convert at least one of them. Both companies could offer rods in the $250-350 range.  Cannot say any more about it as it may never amount to anything.

TGS. Thats interesting. The biggest issues currently with the major players is rod length and power. They all fall short the ones I have seen and tried..

It would be amazing if the price points you indicate could be realised. That is a tough call for a Two Hander.

I cant find a first world blank for those prices and thats at wholesale cost.

On this journey what has surprised me is the expectation by a lot of the guys for a TH that cost wise comes in less than a premium single hander. Prepared to shell out on the SH but not the TH which has twice the amount of material and presents some interesting design challenges to work well. Few guys understand fully the requirements.

Good luck with the project.

Mike

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46 mins ago, Mike Oliver said:

TGS. Thats interesting. The biggest issues currently with the major players is rod length and power. They all fall short the ones I have seen and tried..

It would be amazing if the price points you indicate could be realised. That is a tough call for a Two Hander.

I cant find a first world blank for those prices and thats at wholesale cost.

On this journey what has surprised me is the expectation by a lot of the guys for a TH that cost wise comes in less than a premium single hander. Prepared to shell out on the SH but not the TH which has twice the amount of material and presents some interesting design challenges to work well. Few guys understand fully the requirements.

Good luck with the project.

Mike

It is a long shot so not likely to pan out. But I figured it cannot hurt to check it out.

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Interesting project. I hope it pulls through as the saltwater TH shore rod is something that's utterly missing from the market and it really shouldn't be. From shore, making presentations past 60' I don't see much reason not to use a TH rod except possibly presentations through current where you need to be scalpel precise to connect with fish.

 

Would strongly recommend you pursue rod lengths 12'9'' and up to 14' as the benefits of a TH really aren't fully realized until you get to this area. I get it's intimidating to people to fish when they're only used to their 9'8wts and 10wts but the surfcasters have been using 11' rods with up to (and beyond sometimes) 4 ounce plugs and jigs to make presentations and catch fish, so why shouldn't fly casters step up to something more capable of weathering the more typical NE conditions we see?

 

I get the appetite sometimes isn't there but it's not about just taming the elements, it's also about the mitigation of fatigue, throwing heavier and faster sinking lines, and being able to get out further and more efficiently than single handed rods. It's an area that while explored thoroughly by some, has yet to be realized by 95% of saltwater fly fishers, and that's a real shame, to be honest.

 

Edited by RedGreen

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I don’t know skagit or Scandi but I use a 750 grain Skagit Head with a T14 mow tip and with my Diawa Carp rod conversion I can just lift and let some line out into the back cast, drift a bit and fire the whole line out with only one back cast. My consistency isn’t great lol, and that’s only with cross wind or at my back but still much easier than with the single hand and you can toss big flies. It’s not stealthy at all but it’s not sight fishing on the flats. I can fish with buddies who are throwing plugs and get further out there.

 

I fished the two hand almost exclusively last season. It’s addictive. 

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I'm actually getting a bit interested in TH. I was against it in the past for multiple reasons. I won't get into that now.

 

I messed around briefly today with a fly rod, first time post op. It wasn't long, just a few minutes. While I still need some more time to recover it seems my surgery did not fix the issue adequately. I'm not sure I will be able throw a 10wt rod in the future, at least not like I expect and want. The other issue is that I'm also dealing with some significant neck issues that limit my use of spin tackle. 

 

For now, I'm going to enjoy following. Depending how things go in the coming weeks I will consider a TH. Still one issue, I will start off left handed. The casting would be fine on my hand but the stroke is similar enough to spin tackle that I think RH is out. So I'd have to learn LH, which in theory shouldn't be too bad since I'm starting something new.

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22 hours ago, The Graveyard Shift said:

I love my T&T TH OH rods, but fully understand why people cannot afford the price tag.

 

I am working on two different rod companies for an affordable model.  I am taking some key players at each company out in the surf this season and showing them why its such a great option for the shore bound fly angler.  Hoping to convert at least one of them. Both companies could offer rods in the $250-350 range.  Cannot say any more about it as it may never amount to anything.

TG

 

20 mins ago, Drew C. said:

I'm actually getting a bit interested in TH. I was against it in the past for multiple reasons. I won't get into that now.

 

I messed around briefly today with a fly rod, first time post op. It wasn't long, just a few minutes. While I still need some more time to recover it seems my surgery did not fix the issue adequately. I'm not sure I will be able throw a 10wt rod in the future, at least not like I expect and want. The other issue is that I'm also dealing with some significant neck issues that limit my use of spin tackle. 

 

For now, I'm going to enjoy following. Depending how things go in the coming weeks I will consider a TH. Still one issue, I will start off left handed. The casting would be fine on my hand but the stroke is similar enough to spin tackle that I think RH is out. So I'd have to learn LH, which in theory shouldn't be too bad since I'm starting something new.

Drew

All river spey casters need to learn to use their left and right hands up the rod. If they can do it then no reason why us surf fly guys cant. For me I find it easier with a TH rod to use my non dominant hand up the rod than trying to cast a single hander with my left hand..

Ok if you have neck issues with spin it is also likely that the same issues are going to present casting a TH fly rod.

There are a couple of ways you can go with a TH. It centers around what your expectations are. If you are looking to match roughly what you can expect with a single hand 9 or 10 wt then you can utalise a less powerful version. A general purpose TH which has more power and can cover more bases is not a pig to cast. But there again I do not have your health probs so cant be 100% certain of whats best from afar. 

Pity I am 3000 miles away which makes it difficult for you to have a try with some of my gear.

Not back until maybe 2021.

 

Mike

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1 hour ago, Stripsettter said:

I don’t know skagit or Scandi but I use a 750 grain Skagit Head with a T14 mow tip and with my Diawa Carp rod conversion I can just lift and let some line out into the back cast, drift a bit and fire the whole line out with only one back cast. My consistency isn’t great lol, and that’s only with cross wind or at my back but still much easier than with the single hand and you can toss big flies. It’s not stealthy at all but it’s not sight fishing on the flats. I can fish with buddies who are throwing plugs and get further out there.

 

I fished the two hand almost exclusively last season. It’s addictive. 

Good start. You can try a wf profile fly line and that can be cast with a decent touch down. Hard to find lines with enough weight over 500 grains. So you may have to buy a spey line and do some customising. A head length around 33 to 35 feet works well with rods around 12 to 13 feet.

There are many places where you dont want a T14 tip. Much of our fishing is done with I lines and floaters.

Mike

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2 hours ago, RedGreen said:

Interesting project. I hope it pulls through as the saltwater TH shore rod is something that's utterly missing from the market and it really shouldn't be. From shore, making presentations past 60' I don't see much reason not to use a TH rod except possibly presentations through current where you need to be scalpel precise to connect with fish.

 

Would strongly recommend you pursue rod lengths 12'9'' and up to 14' as the benefits of a TH really aren't fully realized until you get to this area. I get it's intimidating to people to fish when they're only used to their 9'8wts and 10wts but the surfcasters have been using 11' rods with up to (and beyond sometimes) 4 ounce plugs and jigs to make presentations and catch fish, so why shouldn't fly casters step up to something more capable of weathering the more typical NE conditions we see?

 

I get the appetite sometimes isn't there but it's not about just taming the elements, it's also about the mitigation of fatigue, throwing heavier and faster sinking lines, and being able to get out further and more efficiently than single handed rods. It's an area that while explored thoroughly by some, has yet to be realized by 95% of saltwater fly fishers, and that's a real shame, to be honest.

 

You summed it up pretty well RedGreen. I wish it was as much as 5%. You see the odd Fisher with a TH on the beach but thats all. 

Thing is it is still in its infancy kicked off by JimDE about 12 ish years ago. Fly Guys are notoriously slow to move from established practices.

You young guys are going to have to carry the can when us older ones are long gone or just tired.

Mike

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3 hours ago, RedGreen said:

Interesting project. I hope it pulls through as the saltwater TH shore rod is something that's utterly missing from the market and it really shouldn't be. From shore, making presentations past 60' I don't see much reason not to use a TH rod except possibly presentations through current where you need to be scalpel precise to connect with fish.

 

Would strongly recommend you pursue rod lengths 12'9'' and up to 14' as the benefits of a TH really aren't fully realized until you get to this area. I get it's intimidating to people to fish when they're only used to their 9'8wts and 10wts but the surfcasters have been using 11' rods with up to (and beyond sometimes) 4 ounce plugs and jigs to make presentations and catch fish, so why shouldn't fly casters step up to something more capable of weathering the more typical NE conditions we see?

 

I get the appetite sometimes isn't there but it's not about just taming the elements, it's also about the mitigation of fatigue, throwing heavier and faster sinking lines, and being able to get out further and more efficiently than single handed rods. It's an area that while explored thoroughly by some, has yet to be realized by 95% of saltwater fly fishers, and that's a real shame, to be honest.

 

 

Red,

 

Think you hit the nail on the head.    What's the real appetite out there for a TH rod 12'9" or greater with this kind of capacity ?    I think too many are going to be intimidated and/or think that's not for me and it's just a niche thing with some FF'rs.     Look at the ShortStix,  a more conventional rod for most compared to a TH'r but far enough outside of the norm that it really hasn't gained any traction.   I think for most rod companies a rod the likes of what we're using won't come close to bringing in a return on investment.    Promotion and advertising alone would probably do it in.     The other thing is what fishery would be targeted for these rods other than the Striper fishery in the Northeast ?   This type of rod is ideal for Stripers that seeing the Northeast often has strong onshore winds, snotty weather and Stripers that spend much time in the wash feeding, easily accessible for the shore fisherman but honestly where else  do you think this style rod would sell?    Maybe on Jurassic Lake in Argentina where the wind is worse than the eastern seaboard, you have room to cast OH,  and the size of the fish rival what we see with Stripers.   We're else, I'm not sure.

 

I think this type of gear is ideal for someone like Mike who could cater to the limited audience that would appreciate and benefit from what he has accomplished. with his design.    Unfortunately no one wants to work for nothing and charging a fair price for point of entry is beyond what many are willing to shell out, especially having never had the chance to cast a rod in advance of purchase.     I wish things were different.

 

HT

 

 

 

 

Edited by HillTop

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17 hours ago, Drew C. said:

For now, I'm going to enjoy following. Depending how things go in the coming weeks I will consider a TH. Still one issue, I will start off left handed. The casting would be fine on my hand but the stroke is similar enough to spin tackle that I think RH is out. So I'd have to learn LH, which in theory shouldn't be too bad since I'm starting something new.

Drew, when I was recovering from my shoulder injury, I tried some left-handed SH casting and mine was pitiful. But recently I read someplace that left-handed TH casting is much easier than single hand. (maybe because you won't have the timing issues with your double haul?) Spey guys cast from both sides all the time, I think. My two-hand stick is an Echo Classic 6w 11' switch. I got a good deal on it, but I'm guessing that the newer models are getting better and faster, especially for the beach game. Just to clarify--my "beach game" out here in Cali is nothing like the NE scene...I fish mornings with no wind. :) 

 

 

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17 hours ago, Mike Oliver said:

TG

 

Drew

All river spey casters need to learn to use their left and right hands up the rod. If they can do it then no reason why us surf fly guys cant. For me I find it easier with a TH rod to use my non dominant hand up the rod than trying to cast a single hander with my left hand..

Ok if you have neck issues with spin it is also likely that the same issues are going to present casting a TH fly rod.

There are a couple of ways you can go with a TH. It centers around what your expectations are. If you are looking to match roughly what you can expect with a single hand 9 or 10 wt then you can utalise a less powerful version. A general purpose TH which has more power and can cover more bases is not a pig to cast. But there again I do not have your health probs so cant be 100% certain of whats best from afar. 

Pity I am 3000 miles away which makes it difficult for you to have a try with some of my gear.

Not back until maybe 2021.

 

Mike

The neck issue is the elephant in the room. It's blown up on me 4 octobers in a row. The last one was the worst, I am still dealing with numbness in 2 fingers. I had a mri this time and it wasn't good. My spinning rod days are likely over (perhaps I can step down in tackle and still fish). I'm hoping flyfishing will be different. Time will tell.

 

Right now, I'm just antsy from not fishing, so everything seems like a great idea. I will continue to follow this thread and any others and have a better idea as things move along.

 

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32 mins ago, Uncle Stu said:

Drew, when I was recovering from my shoulder injury, I tried some left-handed SH casting and mine was pitiful. But recently I read someplace that left-handed TH casting is much easier than single hand. (maybe because you won't have the timing issues with your double haul?) Spey guys cast from both sides all the time, I think. My two-hand stick is an Echo Classic 6w 11' switch. I got a good deal on it, but I'm guessing that the newer models are getting better and faster, especially for the beach game. Just to clarify--my "beach game" out here in Cali is nothing like the NE scene...I fish mornings with no wind. :) 

 

 

I tried the same and decided to get my hand fixed after trying L handed...

 

The surgery doesn't seem to have been the definitive fix that I was hoping for. It's better but there's still a little play in the joint. That will only worsen with time (the docs warned me of this outcome, the surgery was not a sure thing). If I can comfortably go up to an 8 or 9 single hand I will probably be happy. I do not expect any issues for 6wts and below.

 

 

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Drew

 

I am not a doctor. That neck issue sounds hairy. I could not recommend for one moment a TH rod . If a spin rod causes problems it is highly probable that a TH fly rod will to. When learning to cast its normal to turn the head to watch the back cast. I do this routinely. Realistically it will take more physical effort than an equivalent power spin rod.

You will know through your profession more about the workings of joints and bones.

I hope you find a solution.

 

Mike

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26 mins ago, Mike Oliver said:

Drew

 

I am not a doctor. That neck issue sounds hairy. I could not recommend for one moment a TH rod . If a spin rod causes problems it is highly probable that a TH fly rod will to. When learning to cast its normal to turn the head to watch the back cast. I do this routinely. Realistically it will take more physical effort than an equivalent power spin rod.

You will know through your profession more about the workings of joints and bones.

I hope you find a solution.

 

Mike

After watching a few vids of casting I don’t disagree with you at all. I think my casting strike with a spin rod is too explosive. Fly is a little smoother. Even tho I try to take it easy I still find myself leaning into every cast too much. 
 

im not sure why it happens, whether it’s cumulative or specific. This year I probably fished 15 nights without issue until it happened. I just woke up in discomfort. It’s been 3 mos and I still have issues although much better. 

 

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