Theflyguy

Two hand rods for the salt

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Ok Mike! I have never understood "water haul". Yes I understand it increase rod bend but that is just fly line casting and it does not have any effect to the bend there comes to the delivery cast.

 

Esa

 

 

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Esa

 

I don’t like water haul cast. Mostly in surf you can’t do it because of the waves.

 

What I have found is that if I am having trouble casting into a head wind that a water haul,into my back cast helps a lot. I get a  very positive back cast which helps a lot with a forward cast into the head wind.

Not easy  to get a roll cast to extend out dead straight into a strong head wind which can make back cast weak.

This spring I have to confess to struggling with my cast.It has driven me nuts when You can’t figure what’s going wrong.

 

Mike

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14 mins ago, Mike Oliver said:

...

This spring I have to confess to struggling with my cast.It has driven me nuts when You can’t figure what’s going wrong.

 

Mike

Mike, maybe your rod is underlined.  I had to go there....  ;  )

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I am reluctant t chime in because I’ve only been on the TH for about a year, and I’ve been overseas for three weeks, but here is my experience thus far.  I started with the same CND 11’ TH rod that Greg mentioned.  I love it, but had trouble with it in rough conditions (i.e., surf and wind).  Could be my crappy technique and I don’t know the loop jargon, so I won’t try to analyze it here.  However, with advice from Red and Mike, I built a version of Red’s 13’ “pac bay mod” last winter.  With a few minutes of casting instruction from Mike, Red, and Dan, I am now doing WAY better in rough conditions.  I now use only the 9’ and the 13’ and I am able to fly fish more area more often than before.  That was the whole point for me.

 

JfromRI

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cheers

9 hours ago, JfromRI said:

I am reluctant t chime in because I’ve only been on the TH for about a year, and I’ve been overseas for three weeks, but here is my experience thus far.  I started with the same CND 11’ TH rod that Greg mentioned.  I love it, but had trouble with it in rough conditions (i.e., surf and wind).  Could be my crappy technique and I don’t know the loop jargon, so I won’t try to analyze it here.  However, with advice from Red and Mike, I built a version of Red’s 13’ “pac bay mod” last winter.  With a few minutes of casting instruction from Mike, Red, and Dan, I am now doing WAY better in rough conditions.  I now use only the 9’ and the 13’ and I am able to fly fish more area more often than before.  That was the whole point for me.

 

JfromRI

Hi J

 

It was good to have you over for a couple of hours. It was well,worth it and your cast improved dramatically very quickly.

Combination of your new ability and a surf fit TH has worked well,for you as it should. It did not cost you a great deal,of money either. So important to invest time in casting lessons. So many don’t bother and wonder why they struggle to get the expected performance from both themselves and their gear.

I hope Brokeoff  was happy with his visit to.

 

mike

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Mike

 

One thing I started doing this year was pulling more head into the rod, shooting more on the backcast and then delivering. A headwind can be a help in a way because it's like a tailwind for your backcast, driving it backwards and making it easier to get all your line tight behind you. It helped a lot this season. You know the rest... WSHHHHH!

 

Drifting has helped me lots as well though I mostly use it to get away with 15-20' of overhang on my backcast before delivery, so I can get a really really long and very quick stroke as well as use a lot of power during the stroke without sacrificing loop shape a whole lot. I was getting really close to the end of my running line doing this on the beaches of Maine, and a couple other times off the rocks. With a fast sinking head it would have definitely been the whole line. You were there the one time I think to witness it, but I don't recall if you remarked on it or not. You were probably more focused on Dan's form and casting. More graceful than mine is. 

 

Been bad not keeping up with these TH threads lately. 

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Redgreen

 

Truth is you are  right. I did spend quite while studying Dans cast as it comes close to what you see in a world comp. Technically excellent and one to emulate for most of us a I think.

That is not to say your style does not have merit to. It is just very different. I think you need a lot of arm and upper body strength to cast your way. The rod takes a lot of stress to.  It’s quite scary to watch and I am waiting for the blank to implode.  Without that extreme overhang your loops as you know would be pretty poor. I just don’t have your massive upper body strength to cast like you and also with such a powerful,rod.

I know my place LOL.

 

mike

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Mike

 

It's certainly not the best technique for general use and usually I am much more composed like Dan is. But it sure helps when I need the extra punch or greater distance and its good fun as well having a line go out there so fast.

 

Dan is adopting a bit more punch in his TH cast now. His rod has a harder tip than mine do so it's harder to get a tailing loop like my casting can be prone to. His rod really really benefits from a hard bottom hand haul, more than mine I think. I fished his rod for maybe a half hour and I was getting more distance and line speed out of it because he was (I think) being a little too soft with it. That MkII is such a sweetheart. 

 

I really should take some slow motion to see how far the rod bends when I cast. Dan showed me a vid of you casting your 12'9" MkI and it loaded way down into the blank with your usual intermediate head. Don't knock yourself down too hard, you're still no slouch. Im a little scared to see what I've been subjecting my tackle to now though. Enough to tone it down a notch but not enough to stop entirely. That may change after some perspective.  

Edited by RedGreen

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Wondering if maybe some of the veterans on the TH thread could post some casting vids. Might help the newbies amongst us. I can tell you that I’m stripping the line in just to the head which is a 20ft 650gr Skagit + 10ft T14 mow tip and a 6ish ft leader. I’m doing a roll cast and one back cast without letting any line out and then a powerful forward cast and releasing high on the forward stop. With my Diawa Emcast 2.75 and a modest wind at my back, I can throw the whole thing including 100ft running line but not consistently. 

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Stripsetter.

 

Sounds good to me. What we can’t show on a video is the line release through our relaxed fingers when adding line into the back cast. Your cast will probably benifit from putting in some overhang. You will have to play around to establish how much.

Mucho fun at first when learning to relax grip and then tighten on delivery cast. Can’t tell you how many times I have left my fly line on the beach behind me.

 

Another reason for liking thick grippy running lines.

 

Some Skagit behave well into a head wind others especially the one I have a Rio Inflight is horrible. But it probably is me.

 

Excho boss Tim Rajeff has a very nice short video on casting his Boost  Beach Rods. It is pretty decent and one explains about straight line rod path really well and very simply. He has a couple in fact when I googled him up the other day. Worth looking at both. Straight line rod path is very important with any rod. Long TH magnify any error.  But a OH cast is not too hard to learn.

 

Andrew May has a video.ok it’s over grass and he is a bit top hand heavy but that cast works very well and it is also good into a wind.

 

You can try casting with a closed stance which means the forward  leg or foot is the same as your dominant upper hand. This blocks some physical movement and helps massively with rod tracking. Open stance is left leg forward say for a right hand up the rod and it allows for more body movement and to observe your back cast. Most guys for some weird reason do not when learning watch their back cast.

 

Open stance is easier for balance but if you can cast closed stance you will throw a better line.

 

On a beach or boulder field it’s all,about how,you can plant your feet to stay upright that counts more than anything else.

 

Good luck

 

mike

Edited by Mike Oliver

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I watched the Andrew Moy vid when I first got into TH and it helped me a lot. I especially like how he incorporates the “lift” at the end of the back cast to set you up for the forward cast. I think this is similar to a drift but going upwards. His backcast is also somewhat side armed until the “lift”.

 

I’m almost exclusively TH fly fishing now because even if I’m not catching, I’m practicing. Way more fun than throwing plugs to fishless water lol.

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He has to lift rod to get to firing position from low back cast.

 

The cast is useful in flat water but not so good if wading waist deep or more and there  are waves. 

 

Good to learn also a more  vertical style. 

 

Mike

 

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Mike, RedGreen et al - looking forward to your casting videos.
Hope you can get a red tracer showing like in this Neil Mackellow video - https://youtu.be/0wGQls_8zsw

 

I did a weekend w/him back in the day and never looked back. Tried long casting for a while, but now recovering from a car accident, looks like the fly rod for me.

 

At least my upcoming build of a 13' TH will keep me hoping (& busy finding many shiny pennies).

Thanks for all yr input & help ...

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