Theflyguy

Two hand rods for the salt

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Hahhaa :)

Hi Esa!

 

Yeah, we have met few times over the years :)

 

Thanks for advices Mike :howdy:

Yes, I'm going to do mostly overhead casts. When I'm fishing with switch / dh rods on a saltwater, mainly i do overhead casts.

 

We have been once in Hyannis and we liked it a lot.

In that time i didn't know, how to look and search good places to fish...i was little bit frustrated...i took a bus and went different locations...i even hitchike there and tried to find good fishing areas :) So it was 90% of going around and 10% of fishing, without luck.

 

Now we were thinking to get accommodation some where areas of Wellfleet to Provincetown but we haven't make any reservations yet. So Hyannis is one option...i have read about fishing in Barnstable area. And Chatham looks also very interested place to be and doing fishing.

 

About the tides....some peoples has wrote that when tides are going down ( low tides )...just before tides are stable...it is good time to go fishing + hole stable/zero tide time? And they stop fishing when water level start to rise up...water is coming back. Maybe it depends where at Cape Cod they are fishing?

 

Best regards!

Jukka alias Jacka Heineken

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Jukka

 

I guess you are talking Cape Cod Bay.

 

It is a bit more complicated than that tide wise. I can help you with tides for the flats and as regards safety. Best to do that my email or PM. When you have 15 posts you can send PM. 

 

Esa has my email address and he I am sure will pass it onto you if he has your email.

 

 

Personally  I would not base myself in Hyannis.

I would be based further  east I would suggest West Dennis on the south side to Chatham. I base myself in the Harwich Port area.

 

From here I can get to Cape Cod Bay in the north in 20 minutes. Chatham in 30 minutes. Orleans in 35 minutes and Race Point in around 75 minutes.

 

 Chatham is more expensive.

In average traffic nowhere is more than 100 minutes away in the Cape,

 

Will you have a hire car to get around in. You really need one. If not then your place of stay is even more critical.

 

I would find it pretty darned hard to fish the Cape using public

transport.

 

Mike

 

 

 

 

Edited by Mike Oliver

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Hi all

 

With SH rods, I've always been right handed. I also crank on the right side. That's the way I am.

 

With the overhead TH I just realized with shock that I cast better and feel more comfortable from the left ...

 

Anyone else the same ?

 

Heading for the OSA peninsula end of March so I'll put it to test for sure ...

 

Have a great day 

^..^

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1 hour ago, snapper1 said:

Hi all

 

With SH rods, I've always been right handed. I also crank on the right side. That's the way I am.

 

With the overhead TH I just realized with shock that I cast better and feel more comfortable from the left ...

 

Anyone else the same ?

I can't say the same, but that's good news for you since you could potentially swap sides and relieve your right shoulder if it starts to complain. I would cast from both sides if I could.

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Personally I cast the same side single or two handed. If wind is on my right side I cast backhanded TH and SH. I wind with my left, old habit from egg beater reels which just feels better to me. Plus I don't have to swap hands after finishing a cast. 

 

To address other things from earlier in the thread: 

 

Got to handle an Echo King 13' 10wt. Didn't cast it but didn't need to. It simply did not have the guts a real surf TH fly rod needs. The modern sage rods didn't have it either. Echo boost beach what a joke. 

 

I did however find a hidden gem at the Edison show. Big TH at the bears den booth. 15' 12wt. That thing had serious guts behind it, and a fast action too. Ceramic guides the whole way up. Built in 95' by Cantwell Clark. Really good long handle too, so long it couldn't fit in the rod rack. If I had money out my *** it would be coming home with me. Excellent condition. Clark really gets it. 

 

So as of now still the Pandion 13'9" 9wt is the best commercial option for TH out front unless you like 11' shorties. Other than that go custom building your own or have someone else do it for you. 

 

As to the future: it looks like a new contender is on the horizon by way of Century rods. Handled a surf machine tip flex 10' 9+wt (really more of a 14+ as far as power goes), and it was not at all a bear to cast despite it's huge length and power. It's a single handed rod. It used Graphene in the pre preg of the material which makes the rod light, strong, and durable. I won't get too technical but the combination of the graphene flakes in the pre preg and the weave they are using allows for massive strength and rigidity, as well as increased toughness over standard materials. The graphene benefits the rod in this way by resisting crack formation and propogation through the blank, making it more resistant to shock and impact than standard rods. That's what their testing has shown and what their engineering team put together. How much more resistant it is is hard to say, but based on how easy it was to cast such a long powerful rod to the end of the casting pool that they have something really genuinely groundbreaking here. It is light, powerful, strong, and tough. Very pricey though, but that's par considering fly rods are expensive in the upper echelons anyways. 

 

How does this tie into TH rods? They will be making blanks. For TH rods. Cost 400-500 so comparable to high end sages and such. For the price, performance, and technology, I will pay that all day long. These graphene surf machine fly rods are prototypes and not in production but they will be soon. They are shucking tradition going with new guides and new handle materials which I LOVE and the industry desperately needs. Tradition is good until it gets in the way of pragmatism.

 

Hopefully that comes to fruition soon. Once they start making 14+' TH blanks for surf fly rods I will be all over that.

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2 hours ago, RedGreen said:

Personally I cast the same side single or two handed. If wind is on my right side I cast backhanded TH and SH. I wind with my left, old habit from egg beater reels which just feels better to me. Plus I don't have to swap hands after finishing a cast. 

 

To address other things from earlier in the thread: 

 

Got to handle an Echo King 13' 10wt. Didn't cast it but didn't need to. It simply did not have the guts a real surf TH fly rod needs. The modern sage rods didn't have it either. Echo boost beach what a joke. 

 

I did however find a hidden gem at the Edison show. Big TH at the bears den booth. 15' 12wt. That thing had serious guts behind it, and a fast action too. Ceramic guides the whole way up. Built in 95' by Cantwell Clark. Really good long handle too, so long it couldn't fit in the rod rack. If I had money out my *** it would be coming home with me. Excellent condition. Clark really gets it. 

 

So as of now still the Pandion 13'9" 9wt is the best commercial option for TH out front unless you like 11' shorties. Other than that go custom building your own or have someone else do it for you. 

 

As to the future: it looks like a new contender is on the horizon by way of Century rods. Handled a surf machine tip flex 10' 9+wt (really more of a 14+ as far as power goes), and it was not at all a bear to cast despite it's huge length and power. It's a single handed rod. It used Graphene in the pre preg of the material which makes the rod light, strong, and durable. I won't get too technical but the combination of the graphene flakes in the pre preg and the weave they are using allows for massive strength and rigidity, as well as increased toughness over standard materials. The graphene benefits the rod in this way by resisting crack formation and propogation through the blank, making it more resistant to shock and impact than standard rods. That's what their testing has shown and what their engineering team put together. How much more resistant it is is hard to say, but based on how easy it was to cast such a long powerful rod to the end of the casting pool that they have something really genuinely groundbreaking here. It is light, powerful, strong, and tough. Very pricey though, but that's par considering fly rods are expensive in the upper echelons anyways. 

 

How does this tie into TH rods? They will be making blanks. For TH rods. Cost 400-500 so comparable to high end sages and such. For the price, performance, and technology, I will pay that all day long. These graphene surf machine fly rods are prototypes and not in production but they will be soon. They are shucking tradition going with new guides and new handle materials which I LOVE and the industry desperately needs. Tradition is good until it gets in the way of pragmatism.

 

Hopefully that comes to fruition soon. Once they start making 14+' TH blanks for surf fly rods I will be all over that.

Don’t hold your breath Red. Century are doing FW TH rods. No one in the UK much fishes TH rods in the surf let alone understands the requirements.

 

For rod companies to design and produce worthwhile rods they have to have people who work in their companies to actually go out and fish the surf. They need to be guys who really want to fish it to. Not just do it because the Boss asked them to.

 

mikey

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22 mins ago, Mike Oliver said:

Don’t hold your breath Red. Century are doing FW TH rods. No one in the UK much fishes TH rods in the surf let alone understands the requirements.

 

For rod companies to design and produce worthwhile rods they have to have people who work in their companies to actually go out and fish the surf. They need to be guys who really want to fish it to. Not just do it because the Boss asked them to.

 

mikey

That's probably best. But still I can hope...

 

Those surf machine fly rods were labeled 9+wts, but were really more like 15 wts minimum. I hope danthebassman weighs in on these too as he had a similar experience. If they keep up with the underrating scheme we may see some useable blanks for TH out front!

 

These guys do make surf rods and conventional tackle for the hardcore gear guys, and they really seemed to get it when it came to fly rod design. These rods has long foregrips and fighting butts, ceramic guides and tip tops, and the only reason one had snakes was because they understand how traditional anglers are and are still slaves to the market after all. 

 

I think if they can push the envelope enough possibly guys will abandon tradition for the sake of something new and pragmatic. I won't hold my breath but it would be a refreshing sight indeed. 

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47 mins ago, RedGreen said:

That's probably best. But still I can hope...

 

Those surf machine fly rods were labeled 9+wts, but were really more like 15 wts minimum. I hope danthebassman weighs in on these too as he had a similar experience. If they keep up with the underrating scheme we may see some useable blanks for TH out front!

 

These guys do make surf rods and conventional tackle for the hardcore gear guys, and they really seemed to get it when it came to fly rod design. These rods has long foregrips and fighting butts, ceramic guides and tip tops, and the only reason one had snakes was because they understand how traditional anglers are and are still slaves to the market after all. 

 

I think if they can push the envelope enough possibly guys will abandon tradition for the sake of something new and pragmatic. I won't hold my breath but it would be a refreshing sight indeed. 

@RedGreen and @Mike Oliver would really be interested in linking up and trying these long beach rods.  I really like my 11' TH rods from Thomas and Thomas, but when I decided to get into this I went with what was commercially available.  Since the only longer rod I have is designed for skagit its hard to understand your point until I get to try one of these cannons.  

 

I agree the Echo Boost beach has no spine, but remember Echo's target anglers are PNW guys throwing smaller offerings to salmon and coast cuttthroat or guys in California chasing surf perch primarily.  All of which dont require big flies.  Beulah is decent and less than the Thomas and Thomas in price its worth testing one and they are at the Fly Fishing show so is Thomas and Thomas.  @RedGreen I think you will really like the Exocett 12wt 11'2" despite it being short.  Bring your own reel and some heads.  600 grains is a good head to test rod with.

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TGS,

 

Yes I forget sometimes that few guys fish out front at all and even less with two handed rods. On a bluebird day with no wind any rod would excel. My choice would still be a long rod as it's just my preference.

 

Right I forgot I didn't get to handle the 11'2" 12wt exocett. There was only the 10wt at the T&T booth. If I'm honest I was finding it lacking, I expected more guts to it. Maybe the 12wt is better. Mike's blanks and my pac bay have way more backbone than the 10wt exocett does. 

 

Still I would like to cast one if I have the chance as you rate it favorably and you definitely know what you are doing so it is absolutely credible. I could have cast the 10wt there but I wasn't comfortable doing so on the tight casting ponds there. I've been whacked by fly lines before many times and I'd much rather wonder what a rod is like to cast than push my limits and risk an accident. I suppose I'm just neurotic because lots of guys were all over the place at the pond too and a few almost hit me. Good time for a thick hoodie. 

 

You really ought to try these long rods too. I'll be in the cape cod area second week of June with Mike and co. If that's possible for you. I'd love to meet up and chew the fat and fish for a bit. 

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Posted (edited) · Report post

53 mins ago, RedGreen said:

TGS,

 

Yes I forget sometimes that few guys fish out front at all and even less with two handed rods. On a bluebird day with no wind any rod would excel. My choice would still be a long rod as it's just my preference.

 

Right I forgot I didn't get to handle the 11'2" 12wt exocett. There was only the 10wt at the T&T booth. If I'm honest I was finding it lacking, I expected more guts to it. Maybe the 12wt is better. Mike's blanks and my pac bay have way more backbone than the 10wt exocett does. 

 

Still I would like to cast one if I have the chance as you rate it favorably and you definitely know what you are doing so it is absolutely credible. I could have cast the 10wt there but I wasn't comfortable doing so on the tight casting ponds there. I've been whacked by fly lines before many times and I'd much rather wonder what a rod is like to cast than push my limits and risk an accident. I suppose I'm just neurotic because lots of guys were all over the place at the pond too and a few almost hit me. Good time for a thick hoodie. 

 

You really ought to try these long rods too. I'll be in the cape cod area second week of June with Mike and co. If that's possible for you. I'd love to meet up and chew the fat and fish for a bit. 

The 10wt is a great rod.  It has limitations for sure.  Big surf and wind over 15mph its not going to be enough.    I figured that out last fall.  The 12wt is what I had to use in the NE storms.  The 10WT definitely could not handle the heads you mentioned earlier in this thread.  

 

From a practicality stand point in 52 dedicated fly fishing trips for striped bass last season only 3 trips did weather conditions make me switch to the 12wt over the 10wt.  One was so bad I just left the fly rods in the car and threw spinning gear.  Also at the Canal I wont use the 10wt because I needed more backbone for the fight not for the casting purposes.

 

However I can say that in comparison to my SH 9WT and 10WT the switch has been amazing.  I wish I had done it years ago.  So thankfuk for this thread and other good information out there to help point the way.

Edited by The Graveyard Shift

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Also Going to admit to being really confused by some of this discussion.

 

"Personally I cast the same side single or two handed. If wind is on my right side I cast backhanded TH and SH"

 

Also someone mentioned switching  casting hands to deal with wind.

 

I am wondering if I am just making cast work that should not but if the wind is on my right side I keep the same right hand top grip and just cast cross body TH OH over my left shoulder.  I found that while I could not get same power or efficiency I was only losing about 10-15' on my max casting range.  Is casting cross body over you left should when right handed something I should not be doing?  It just seemed like the natural way for me to cast in right side wind TH OH instead of switching to a backcast like I would SH.  

 

The fact no one is mentioning it as an option is making me think there is a reason I am missing no one is doing it. 

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The ability to cast off both shoulders is a necessary skill you would have to learn when fishing Spey casts in FW although you could fudge something together. Adapting that to being able to OH cast off either shoulder I found relatively easy yet I could never properly cast a SH rod with my LH. One of the big advantages of TH rod IMO. You will find it easier than you think because you have no memory muscle problems in your left arm. Starts off on the mechanical side you do have to concentrate on your rod tracking and stops but soon starts flowing, start with roll casts and then just pick it up and let it rip.

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I find TH casting weak hand up technically easy but I still can not generate as much power I do my strong hand up. But what comes fishing which require stripping line it is awkward :(

 

Esa

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6 hours ago, The Graveyard Shift said:

Also Going to admit to being really confused by some of this discussion.

 

"Personally I cast the same side single or two handed. If wind is on my right side I cast backhanded TH and SH"

 

Also someone mentioned switching  casting hands to deal with wind.

 

I am wondering if I am just making cast work that should not but if the wind is on my right side I keep the same right hand top grip and just cast cross body TH OH over my left shoulder.  I found that while I could not get same power or efficiency I was only losing about 10-15' on my max casting range.  Is casting cross body over you left should when right handed something I should not be doing?  It just seemed like the natural way for me to cast in right side wind TH OH instead of switching to a backcast like I would SH.  

 

The fact no one is mentioning it as an option is making me think there is a reason I am missing no one is doing it. 

Sorry for not being totally clear. When I say I'm casting backhanded with a TH I'm doing exactly what you're doing. I do lose some power and can't get the same distance I can normally which is why I'm wanting to figure out how to cast with my weak hand up instead, but I haven't had much time to practice so far this winter. 

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Century Sling Shot SS1505-5 Blank 12' 6" did get my attention because being five piece it would fit to suitcase but its price $814 is too expensive.

 

Edit: Blank price seems high when I saw rod price $872 

 

Esa

 

Edited by crunch

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