Mike Oliver

Busting a few rod myths

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3 hours ago, Otshawytsha said:

I would like to also recommend use of spinning rods instead of fly rods especially when the fish are not in close. Why go to all the trouble of fly casting a hundred feet just to barely get to the zone when you can easily cover the entire zone with a spinning rod especially when using the plugs and lures that are much more fun to fish than a flise, providing much more satisfaction to angler? 

 

After all, are you looking for numbers on a fly rod or overall satisfaction with your fishing time?  A lot of fly people say, "He can't be a man if he doesn't chew the same spearmint gum as me" and dismiss spinning rods. But they actually involve a lot more work and activity and fun than fly fishing in the situations where the fish are further out. 

But this is a fly fishing forum not a spin fish forum.

 

Many Fly Fishers do like to look for solutions to long range fly fishing because they enjoy it.  It is not a drudge for them. It is a challange. If a sport is too easy whereis the challange and the pleasure that goes along with that.

 

Some are happy to engage in both fly and spin but some only wish 

to fish fly. 

 

What we do in the sport does does not define us as men.

 

Each to their own but I have always leaned towards  encouraging new guys to embrace the sport as fully as they can as a starting point.

I meet many on the beach who say that they only fly fish in fresh water or only in nice conditions.

For me if this was the default position of the majority I would feel sad as where does this leave our young new enterants. What example would we be giving them.

Mike

 

 

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9 hours ago, Mike Oliver said:

Chuck

 

No probs. 

 

I should have qualified further by stating 9 foot 10  Wts. That Cabelas short rod in a heavy wind would be top draw. Amazing rod.

 

Ok Long Rods and wind resistance. Short rods are facing same issue. Ok they have less resistance but equally less power to deal with the wind.

Fishing against a head wind does not come for free. I get tired but at the same time I enjoy the battle. Oft times when fishing the TH there is only me on the beach as the SH guys just don’t fancy it. I do enjoy the SH in bad conditions to.

Out Front I cant fish for as long as the work rate required in a surf is much higher. Quality over quantity.

Our Hen on last day cast my stick and I learned a lot from him. Longer flatter stroke equals tight loops long rod stroke and a great cast for headwinds.

Widh he had chucked it sooner but better late than never. Like Brian said it’s a constant learning process. One of the reasons our sport is so good.

 

Mike

 

 

Mike,  

 

Your stroke is quite unique among our group.   I've tried to emulate it a few times but end up resorting to what I'm comfortable with.  Sometimes I wish my loops were a little less tight as I've bumped fly on tip too often, especially nearer to the end of my two weeks for some reason.  For that reason I've fished with fewer Clousers than in past years.

 

HT

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Fishing isn't a static sport, and I've come to take that as its greatest value. I have a relationship with it that seems to become more personal and complex the older I get. I take this as a good thing. Perhaps you're the same.

 

I used to believe that the best fly fishers - or at least the ones I enjoyed hearing from - were those who were always adaptive to different fly fishing methods and tackle (to meet the vagaries of fish and nature!) But by my reckoning that means a good fisherman will know when to set down his fly rod for a live bunker. I started fly fishing 30 odd years ago, and this last year at age 47 I recently got "back" into casting the spinning rod. Far from going backwards, it feels like a new adventure, with new breadth and depth to think about, and so very much for a fly fisherman to learn from the simple (and long overdue) act of jigging a 2oz plastic shad.

 

I would no more advocate you try the same as offer advice on how a 10 weight feels after you cast it for an hour, or tell you what your fishing picnic should consist of.

 

This has nothing much to do with Mike's post, save for the observation that they are only fishing rods and don't much matter to the enjoyment and success of fishing (unlike his Kelly Kettle, which is an absolute doozy.) My shoulders ache through too much time at a desk, no matter the rod weight. A fishing forum cannot know or interpret the fishing rod that suits me. 

 

I will say that learning to cast a fly rod well has come in for some dodgy press in certain quarters. Technique isn't all that cool, so long as you're fly fishing the right way. Maybe I'm an old(ish) traditionalist, but the practical act of casting a fly rod - levers, timing, biting points and movement - always suggested a respectful learning curve that was an equitable part of the game. Learning to cast well is still a good idea, I think. Doing so may do more to encourage folk to stick with fly fishing rather than the elevation of what to me is a comparatively gray debate about which rods and lines work, and which don't, for people we don't know.

 

I hope everyone is having a great season.

 

Jon

Edited by Silver Stoat

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Well I for one picked up my flyrod and never looked back. I am 33 and only on my second season with a two hander been using a one hander for ever. I switched due to tendinitis in my casting elbow. I use a 12.6ft 7wt and my elbow never hurts now. I have a 11.6ft 8wt switch that is a blast to fish with also and could fish for hours. My technique is sloppy and try to work on it every time out but my arms don’t seem to bother me. One hander is a well balance 9ft 9wt and was fine the first bunch of seasons. 3 seasons ago I fished the hardest I think I have ever fished and that’s when my elbow went. I met Alan L and he let me try a couple of his set ups and gave me the basics and was a day I will never forget. Since then I have used my one hander mostly when in my kayak or on a boat and a few handful of times with the waders. My arm gets elbow get sore when I do this. I am sure it’s my form. Either way the two hander is much funner for me and no pain ( unless fly connects with body lol) so I will keep working on that.

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Couldnt agree with you more Mike, my SH of choice the past season and a half is a home built 8 footer slinging 550-600 grain heads. Can fish it all day if the bite is on. Everyone needs to test there own personal limits, probably be amazed how much more they can do as opposed to what the internet "says" they can do. Hope the Cape is good to you this year, miss you in Montauk...

Bobby

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1 hour ago, HillTop said:

Mike,  

 

Your stroke is quite unique among our group.   I've tried to emulate it a few times but end up resorting to what I'm comfortable with.  Sometimes I wish my loops were a little less tight as I've bumped fly on tip too often, especially nearer to the end of my two weeks for some reason.  For that reason I've fished with fewer Clousers than in past years.

 

HT

HT in one of the threads studying the vagaries and subtleties of the double haul we discovered a Lefty Kreh tip: make sure you aren't crossing the rod over the line of your cast at end of forcast i.e. rotating it from right to left  if you cast with right hand. Where the tip go, so goeth the line...

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4 hours ago, Mike Oliver said:

But this is a fly fishing forum not a spin fish forum.

Yes, and my suggestion was only in response to your comment that about the "cop out" of directing people to fish the swash zone when fish are at or beyond about 95 feet or so. In that situation I would consider a spinning rod if I had one handy.  

4 hours ago, Mike Oliver said:

 

Many Fly Fishers do like to look for solutions to long range fly fishing because they enjoy it.  It is not a drudge for them. It is a challange. If a sport is too easy whereis the challange and the pleasure that goes along with that.

I like that too that's why I led the in-depth discussion of double basics which was very helpful. It's fun to cast a long ways when there are fish out there, although catching them with spinning rod is probably even more fun in certain situations. 

4 hours ago, Mike Oliver said:

 

What we do in the sport does does not define us as men.

Exactly what Mick Jagger was suggesting via irony in his wonderful song "Satisfaction" hence the reference above.

4 hours ago, Mike Oliver said:

Each to their own but I have always leaned towards  encouraging new guys to embrace the sport as fully as they can as a starting point.

I meet many on the beach who say that they only fly fish in fresh water or only in nice conditions.

For me if this was the default position of the majority I would feel sad as where does this leave our young new enterants. What example would we be giving them.

Mike

I agree and remember of course that the tools and skills and tackle that can get you to 100 feet are also just as useful for fishing at 65 or 50 feet! And even in the swash! 

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I find fishing with my spin rod boring most times. To be honest most of the time 100 ft or more cast aren’t needed I catch decent fish every outing while I can cast a 100 most of my strike are within 50-30 ft a lot of times I get strike when I get to my head. Like I said above though I could cast the two hander all day even with a sloppy technique but if I tried bombing my whole line all day on my one hander my elbow would be toast. 

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I fish all ways?  I don't have any fly guys in my circle. My friends all have boats and I also.

So when on the boat with my friends , I use spinning and Jigging rods  When at the surf I use surf and fly rods  In the marsh i use lite spinning and fly rods.   Most of the time when I am alone I use a flyrod.  The last couple of years there have been a lot of Sea Bass around and my friends love them, so I use a lite spinning rod when with them.  I never was a bait guy.  I love throwing plugs on the topwater.  I love to see the Stripers and Blues smash it on top or circle it and hit it with its tail first and then swallow it.  I just like to fish?  

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19 hours ago, Otshawytsha said:

I would like to also recommend use of spinning rods instead of fly rods especially when the fish are not in close. Why go to all the trouble of fly casting a hundred feet just to barely get to the zone when you can easily cover the entire zone with a spinning rod especially when using the plugs and lures that are much more fun to fish than a flise, providing much more satisfaction to angler? 

 

After all, are you looking for numbers on a fly rod or overall satisfaction with your fishing time?  A lot of fly people say, "He can't be a man if he doesn't chew the same spearmint gum as me" and dismiss spinning rods. But they actually involve a lot more work and activity and fun than fly fishing in the situations where the fish are further out. 

Contrary to your statement, the reason I fly fish exclusively IS that I am looking for overall satisfaction with my fishing time. I do not fly fish because I am looking for numbers on a fly rod - I enjoy the mechanics of it and enjoy the dynamics of fishing a fly in moving water. If I am at a spot where the fish are consistently out of fly cast range, then chances are I chose a spot that wasn't conducive to fly fishing in the first place. I tend to choose spots based on their apparent ability to hold fish within casting range, rather than just uniform beachfront that could hold fish anywhere. 

Edited by capefish4231

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59 mins ago, ccb said:

I fish all ways?  I don't have any fly guys in my circle. My friends all have boats and I also.

So when on the boat with my friends , I use spinning and Jigging rods  When at the surf I use surf and fly rods  In the marsh i use lite spinning and fly rods.   Most of the time when I am alone I use a flyrod.  The last couple of years there have been a lot of Sea Bass around and my friends love them, so I use a lite spinning rod when with them.  I never was a bait guy.  I love throwing plugs on the topwater.  I love to see the Stripers and Blues smash it on top or circle it and hit it with its tail first and then swallow it.  I just like to fish?  

Ditto, Chris!  I consider my self to be AMBIDEXTROUS in my fishing skills. Fly, Spin and Conventional reels and rods.  At 79, I go with the flow.  !0 Wt. and 8 wt. for my SW FF time,  Spin Surf Rods from 8 to 10 Ft. and Conventional  7 to 10 foot Rods.  Conventional reels by Abu 6500, 6600 and 7000's for SW. 5500 FW 

 

"A lot of fly people say, "He can't be a man if he doesn't chew the same spearmint gum as me" 

 

OS is without a clue, on this made up quote.  He reminded me of a next door neighbor in a tiny town in Albany, County NY when I used to help with my wife out by doing the diaper washing and hanging them out to dry when she came home with my first Son.  My oldest child was 18 months old when Thomas Aquinas arrived on 6/6/65.  I was adept at changing diapers on Girls and Boys.

 

The clown came over to the back yard fence and sneered, "That's Woman's Work!"  He then told me that when his twin little girls soil themselves, he waits until his wife comes home from shopping and tells her to change their diapers.  

 

I advised him he was a DH and AH to let his girls suffer because he had a misconception about what makes a man a Man!

 

 

 

 

Edited by RJ

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Silver Stoat.

 

Very  thoughtful post . Thanks it made me think a lot.

 

My motivation for the post was simply to dismiss the idea that a ten weight single hand fly rod is hard work. It was aimed at protecting new guys who might be convinced that they had to go lighter. Often lead by guys who can’t or won’t fish a ten weight. Why should we always default to the lower standard of performance.

 

Not saying anyone has to fish  a ten weight or drop his spinrods What I am saying is that any healthy human male has the strength and physical capability to do so and not to be put off by naysayers. It was about enablement.

 

Mike

Edited by Mike Oliver

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18 hours ago, Otshawytsha said:

Lots of MLB pitchers are in shape and still have problems with their shoulders. I doubt fly fishing is any different. It is also important to pick a motion and rod (like an 8 wt or a 6) and find the appropriate water for your physical situation for:

" to wilful men,

The injuries that they themselves procure
Must be their schoolmasters. "--King Lear

 

We must all be "taught" by our "strict" high school teacher-like nagging injuries that can make fishing a living hell, almost like a math class or something, unless one learns, from the injury, to do what the injury says, else we would inflict more injury upon ourselves!

Agreed Many pitchers even major leaguers get injuries. The ones with great form and mechanics end up as perennial all stars and in the hall of fame. Our hall of fame, Left Kreh caste long distances at 90 years old because of great form and technique developed over a lifetime of " practice doesn't make perfect, PERFECT PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT"

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If any of you are having right shoulder problems, and think it might be from Fly Casting, I would like to share what I thought caused my shoulder to freeze up.  I thought casting a 10 wt was the problem.

 

Went to 6 weeks of rehab and got it unfrozen.   During a long stretch on my computer's mouse putting a 20 page Newsletter together, I felt the pangs of shoulder pain starting to creep up from annoying to the next level. 

 

I then realized that my shoulder pain was coming from having my arm at full stretch while manipulating the Mouse.

 

I moved closer to the mouse and only use it with my arm bent at the elbow and the pain source went away.

 

If you have pain in the front of the shoulder, check your Mouse handling posture and move closer to it.  

 

I do light weight training and wall push ups to keep the shoulder muscles tuned up.

 

RJ

Edited by RJ

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