tomkaz

IG Report Makes Comey-firing Obstruction Charge Much Harder

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One aspect of the findings in the IG report that seems to get ignored is the impact on Mueller's investigation. Beyond the taint of several past members of Team Mueller, the IG report makes it much harder to develop an obstruction argument around Trump's firing of Mueller. 

 

Given the "insubordination" and flaunting of rules and process that the report lays at Comey's feet, it will become difficult to argue that Trump was not justified in his firing of Comey. Whether directly or indirectly, Comey has shown a pattern of behaviors that could be well argued to justify his firing for cause.

 

Wonder if the Media will pick up on that thread anytime soon? 

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I assume you mean makes it much hard to develop an obstruction argument... THAT HAS ANY MERIT

 

It is no harder at all for Mueller to make that argument.  He has infinite time and money and one goal... to pester Trump.

There is no need for any of his actions, statements, or conclusions to have any point or weight of fact to them.

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Tom I have a question, and one that's kind of been sticking in my craw since this whole thing started. Would it not be better for Trump to let this play out and be vindicated, rather than for him to act like a guilty teenager throwing tantrums every 5 minutes? Assuming all of these kinds of arguments come to pass. Patience is obviously not one of his better qualities, that said if he lets it play out, and comes out clean, he pretty much has carte blanche to crush any political opposition, on both sides of the isle. Seems like the smarter play to me. 

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21 mins ago, slowroller said:

Tom I have a question, and one that's kind of been sticking in my craw since this whole thing started. Would it not be better for Trump to let this play out and be vindicated, rather than for him to act like a guilty teenager throwing tantrums every 5 minutes? Assuming all of these kinds of arguments come to pass. Patience is obviously not one of his better qualities, that said if he lets it play out, and comes out clean, he pretty much has carte blanche to crush any political opposition, on both sides of the isle. Seems like the smarter play to me. 

Slow, there is an argument to be made as you have. However, if Trump knows he’s innocent, then he believes two things: 

 

1) There will be no evidence to implicate him in any wrongdoing since he descended the escalator in Trump Tower and declared his candidacy. 

 

And 

 

2) That there was never any material basis for this/these investigations and that they are motivated by politics, ideology or an animus directed toward him. 

 

So so what should he do? Sit back and wait, dealing with the indignities of leaks and Media coverage of every twist and turn in the case. Each one helping some small segment of the population become convinced where there’s smoke there’s fire? 

 

Or

 

Go on the offensive and continually tell the people what he believes will ultimately be the truth, that he’s done no wrong related to the election? 

 

In the the case of the latter, when the final Mueller report comes out and Trump is shown to have done nothing illegal or impeachment worthy, he can say "Aha, I told you so" and claim a major victory. And in the process, play the victim and then the vindicated cards. 

 

Much bigger PR, and political win, for him to claim his innocence daily and be proven right.

 

The one other possibility is that even though he’s proclaiming his innocence, he’s guilty as sin and he knows it. In that case, when charges are brought, he is cooked anyway so his claims of witch hunt and more will be seen as misdirection of a guilty party. There’s not downside in that. 

 

Lastly, Trump is all about owning the news cycle, daily. His biggest and most public target are the investigations. The Media cannot Ignore his tweets about them and the people lap them up, from both sides of the center. It keeps him in control rather than letting leakers control the narrative while he plays Rope-a-Dope. 

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I'd say that's a pretty fair assessment, but from where I sit the president ( any president for that matter ) shouldn't act like a whiney bitch 24/7. Do you want the leader of our country playing the victim?  Not a good look in my opinion, doesn't project strength. From all my years of managing people in my previous career, the more someone lashes out in defense of themselves and attacks the people making accusations, the more likely they are to be guilty of whatever offense they are being accused of. 

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Posted (edited) · Report post

3 hours ago, hamlet said:

It is no harder at all for Mueller to make that argument.  He has infinite time and money and one goal... to pester Trump.

 

By this time they know there was no collusion so now the goal is to keep the investigation alive to drive as many republicans as they can to near bankruptcy by calling the individuals in for questioning and forcing them to hire attorneys, even when it's known they did nothing remotely illegal and probably knew nothing.

The goal is to punish anyone that might want to work for the Republican party and make people think twice about wanting to work for them in the future 

 

Quotes snipped from the Washington Times

 

“Forget about all the death threats against my family,” Mr. Caputo said. “I want to know who cost us so much money, who crushed our kids, who forced us out of our home, all because you lost an election. I want to know because gosh darn you to Hell.”

His outburst struck a chord in Trump land. Mr. Caputo checked his GoFundMe account over the weekend and saw that the pot had swelled to more than $250,000.

“This covers my legal fees, unless it turns into hellish litigation,” Mr. Caputo told The Washington Times. “And the more I speak out, the more likely it is I get dragged along.”

Mr. Caputo’s risk-taking was not confined to his explosive statement. He did a cable TV news tour knowing he might irk a Mueller prosecution staff dominated by Democratic Party donors.

“Investigators know I need help with my legal fees, and they know how to use that against you,” Mr. Caputo told The Times. “After this unexpected grass-roots support from 5,000 donors of less than $50 each, investigators also know the [Make America Great Again] team’s got my back. And I’m not so scared anymore.”

Edited by Sudsy

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3 hours ago, slowroller said:

Do you want the leader of our country playing the victim?  

 

He isn't "playing" a victim, he IS a victim....

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5 hours ago, tomkaz said:

Slow, there is an argument to be made as you have. However, if Trump knows he’s innocent, then he believes two things: 

 

1) There will be no evidence to implicate him in any wrongdoing since he descended the escalator in Trump Tower and declared his candidacy. 

 

And 

 

2) That there was never any material basis for this/these investigations and that they are motivated by politics, ideology or an animus directed toward him. 

 

So so what should he do? Sit back and wait, dealing with the indignities of leaks and Media coverage of every twist and turn in the case. Each one helping some small segment of the population become convinced where there’s smoke there’s fire? 

 

Or

 

Go on the offensive and continually tell the people what he believes will ultimately be the truth, that he’s done no wrong related to the election? 

 

In the the case of the latter, when the final Mueller report comes out and Trump is shown to have done nothing illegal or impeachment worthy, he can say "Aha, I told you so" and claim a major victory. And in the process, play the victim and then the vindicated cards. 

 

Much bigger PR, and political win, for him to claim his innocence daily and be proven right.

 

The one other possibility is that even though he’s proclaiming his innocence, he’s guilty as sin and he knows it. In that case, when charges are brought, he is cooked anyway so his claims of witch hunt and more will be seen as misdirection of a guilty party. There’s not downside in that. 

 

Lastly, Trump is all about owning the news cycle, daily. His biggest and most public target are the investigations. The Media cannot Ignore his tweets about them and the people lap them up, from both sides of the center. It keeps him in control rather than letting leakers control the narrative while he plays Rope-a-Dope. 

I think Donald Trump is  the only person under our justice system who is not allowed to proclaim his innocence 

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7 hours ago, slowroller said:

I'd say that's a pretty fair assessment, but from where I sit the president ( any president for that matter ) shouldn't act like a whiney bitch 24/7. Do you want the leader of our country playing the victim?  Not a good look in my opinion, doesn't project strength. From all my years of managing people in my previous career, the more someone lashes out in defense of themselves and attacks the people making accusations, the more likely they are to be guilty of whatever offense they are being accused of. 

How would you feel if you legitimately won the most prestigious election in the world, after beating 16 other Republican candidates, and were falsely accused of stealing it from the Clinton/DNC political machine?  And that lie was perpetuated 24/7 by the Democrat Controlled State Media for over a year and continuing?  All the while evidence of the conspiracy to plant this Russian Collusion fake narrative pops up all around you.  Would you just sit back and say/do nothing while tax payer dollars and unlimited resources are used to pressure those around you into pleading guilty to anything, in order to avoid bankruptcy? 

 

If you would do nothing, you are a complete loser.

 

Trump has shown since day one he's a counter puncher.

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By now Mueller and the Dems pushing his buttons know this investigation is going nowhere. The first goal is to keep it going to the midterms to minimize any Republican gains. This also slows the improvement to the economy as businesses that want to return and/or invest in America will have doubts as to the permanence of the Trump reforms. The second goal is for the Mueller team to stay on offense which is protecting them from needing a defense when people start asking about methods, evidence and expenditures of the witch hunt. 

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1 hour ago, Maine Guide said:

How would you feel if you legitimately won the most prestigious election in the world, after beating 16 other Republican candidates, and were falsely accused of stealing it from the Clinton/DNC political machine?  And that lie was perpetuated 24/7 by the Democrat Controlled State Media for over a year and continuing?  All the while evidence of the conspiracy to plant this Russian Collusion fake narrative pops up all around you.  Would you just sit back and say/do nothing while tax payer dollars and unlimited resources are used to pressure those around you into pleading guilty to anything, in order to avoid bankruptcy? 

 

If you would do nothing, you are a complete loser.

 

Trump has shown since day one he's a counter puncher.

Spot on

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2 mins ago, nalu22 said:

That and any POTUS doesn't need a reason to fire an FBI director

Report gives plenty of reasons, Next question why did Obama not fire the guy? I will answer because he liked what Comey was doing........

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4 hours ago, albacized said:

I think Donald Trump is  the only person under our justice system who is not allowed to proclaim his innocence 

What does this even mean?

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