JohnP

Is fiberglass the new vinyl?

60 posts in this topic

20 mins ago, Skip S said:

That Fenwick FF806 is my favorite rod for bass.Just a pleasure to throw poppers with.

Agreed - love it for LMB's for a bunch of reasons, including that it was my dad's rod :-)

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4 hours ago, sms said:

Quite the opposite. This is tough. Too tough. The leverage the fish has is too great:

https://www.perhokalastajat.net/keskustelu/download/file.php?id=79669

 

 

 

Nobody said big game fly fishing was easy.  

 

4 hours ago, sms said:

And when the fish gets closer to the surface and does the circle like tuna always do, then one just cannot hold on to the rod anymore and then this:

https://www.perhokalastajat.net/keskustelu/download/file.php?id=79907

 

 

That's amateur hour. Crank the wheel one turn starboard, put the boat in gear for 3 seconds and the fish will be off the stern quarter.  Straight up and down - welcome to tuna fishing.

 

If you can't or don't want to fight the fish anymore break it off.  The fun part is over anyway. 

 

4 hours ago, sms said:

 

So we went for glass, not because we wanted, but because we needed a solution to a very concrete problem. And we found a solution from glass - and it did not came from some fancy fly rod stuff. We've stripped and chopped rods made for trolling. The tapering did give us a bit of a head ache, but we managed to overcome that.

 

You should try putting 6kg+ drag on a 35kg tuna that sounds and pump it from 70m up. With CF and glass rods. Both should be only as stiff as needed to endure the thing.

 

 

I get it - you like glass, it's your thing but clearly it's not the best solution for fly fishing for an 80lb tuna.  If you said you needed a low cost alternative -  glass would make sense. However tuna fishing with fly rods is not a poor man's game so I would assume cost of a rod is not an issue.  Go look over on the main forum - Blackhole rods - they are just one of many great popping rod companies but Kil Song posts so many examples of ultralight graphite rods that take EXTREME amounts of drag.  So if you are going to repurpose a rod - the parabolic bend, super fast recoil and virtually unbreakability of some of today's popping rods would clearly make them better fish fighting tools than a repurposed glass trolling rod - not to mention casting (fly casting a glass trolling rod sounds like unmitigated torture :kook:).

 

The popping community puts multiples of 6kg's of drag on tuna multiples of 35kg.  They would not dream of using glass trolling rods (in their nightmares perhaps).  So for you to say glass is the only way for flyrodders to pull real hard and fight big fish fast is ridiculous.  All that being said, there are plenty of off the rack graphite rods that are plenty to cast and fight a tuna or marlin.

 

just curious, what does this repurposed trolling rod weight? 

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Started back in the day with the old Shakespeare howald rods, then i build my 1st fenwick 7' 5 wt ( still have it ), orvis far & fine, then i met gary loomis and co and that changed everything. Would never go back, although i take out the fenwick once in a while for old times sake.

 

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13 hours ago, Cpalms said:

Nobody said big game fly fishing was easy.

It can be easier.

 

13 hours ago, Cpalms said:

That's amateur hour. Crank the wheel one turn starboard, put the boat in gear for 3 seconds and the fish will be off the stern quarter.  Straight up and down - welcome to tuna fishing.

Very doable in that weather, yes. Some boats are more nimble than others, this one isn't really nimble. I am quite familiar with tuna. And you can't maneuver a moored boat - something I've had as tuna platform too.

 

13 hours ago, Cpalms said:

I get it - you like glass, it's your thing but clearly it's not the best solution for fly fishing for an 80lb tuna.

I don't like glass. I would like to have a better material on hand, but CF is not. At least CF fly rods are not.

 

13 hours ago, Cpalms said:

 If you said you needed a low cost alternative -  glass would make sense. However tuna fishing with fly rods is not a poor man's game so I would assume cost of a rod is not an issue.

Cost is always an issue. But since, for me, glass has better value and lower cost, it just wins this time.

 

13 hours ago, Cpalms said:

 Go look over on the main forum - Blackhole rods - they are just one of many great popping rod companies but Kil Song posts so many examples of ultralight graphite rods that take EXTREME amounts of drag.

Didn't find any that would fit the bill. Went over their website and... 250g! That is not light. My rods weigh less in total.

 

13 hours ago, Cpalms said:

So if you are going to repurpose a rod - the parabolic bend, super fast recoil and virtually unbreakability of some of today's popping rods would clearly make them better fish fighting tools than a repurposed glass trolling rod - not to mention casting (fly casting a glass trolling rod sounds like unmitigated torture :kook:).

It is absolutely torture to cast the comparable CF rods in comparison to the glass. They very well can be cast, but are not fun at all.

 

13 hours ago, Cpalms said:

The popping community puts multiples of 6kg's of drag on tuna multiples of 35kg.  They would not dream of using glass trolling rods (in their nightmares perhaps).  So for you to say glass is the only way for flyrodders to pull real hard and fight big fish fast is ridiculous.  All that being said, there are plenty of off the rack graphite rods that are plenty to cast and fight a tuna or marlin.

Yes, there are plenty popping rods that can put multiples - I have popping rods that can do it. I have jigging rods that can do it a lot easier when the angle of the rod to line is close to 90 degrees. I would not want to cast with such a stiff rod a fly line at all. And fighting with tuna with a popping rod was the worst fish fighting experience I ever had since I didn't high stick, which I should have done to make the fight easier for me because it shortens the lever.

 

13 hours ago, Cpalms said:

just curious, what does this repurposed trolling rod weight? 

Unfortunately one of them is it is only 17g lighter than my CTS Revo.

Rod 1: 207g and 234cm, 4pc

Rod 2 195g and 237cm, 4pc

Rod 3 225g and 261cm, 5pc

 

For comparison:

TFO BW MD: 234g and 254cm, 4pc

CTS Revo S #16 8'2": 215g and 251cm, 4pc

 

It is true that there are advantages in CF composite resins and one can get closer to limits of CF absolute max strain (that relates directly to min bend radius). But the breaking strain is still lower than that of glass, which means that with same geometry, glass can bend to tighter radius - even with cheap stuff.

 

If money wasn't an issue I would have started with Epic rods as they are unidirectional S-glass. I guess mine do not have unidirectional fiber orientation and just probably only have E-glass. But for me, even they blow out CF fly rods out the window with ease.

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Posted (edited)

34 mins ago, sms said:

Very doable in that weather, yes. Some boats are more nimble than others, this one isn't really nimble. I am quite familiar with tuna. And you can't maneuver a moored boat - something I've had as tuna platform too.

 

Sure you can.  Go to West marine, ask the guy for a big orange anchor ball. 

 

Fasten the anchor ball to the anchor line.  Hook a fish, untie the anchor line from your boat and throw anchor line with anchor ball attached into the water. Now you are quickly and easily unanchored.

 

When you are done fighting the fish drive back over to your anchor ball and tie the anchor line back to your bow cleat. Now you are quickly and easily re-anchored.  You can see tuna fisherman do this every week on that show on Discovery.

 

Fighting a tuna from an anchored boat when you don't have to is silly.  I'm assuming you were chumming, which I have no problem with but many would not consider it fly fishing..

Edited by Cpalms

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Posted (edited)

19 hours ago, Cpalms said:


 

I get it - you like glass, it's your thing but clearly it's not the best solution for fly fishing for an 80lb tuna.  If you said you needed a low cost alternative -  glass would make sense. However tuna fishing with fly rods is not a poor man's game so I would assume cost of a rod is not an issue.  Go look over on the main forum - Blackhole rods - they are just one of many great popping rod companies but Kil Song posts so many examples of ultralight graphite rods that take EXTREME amounts of drag.  So if you are going to repurpose a rod - the parabolic bend, super fast recoil and virtually unbreakability of some of today's popping rods would clearly make them better fish fighting tools than a repurposed glass trolling rod - not to mention casting (fly casting a glass trolling rod sounds like unmitigated torture :kook:).

 

So...if I want to put a new rod together for school tuna (and I do need to. for the sake of discussion, let's say 100# max, because I want nothing to do with BF bigger than that on fly...more like 40-50# would be what I'd target, if it were possible to be that choosy)..what would you suggest? I don't think I want a rod more than 8'. I don't know if you can getnto the point of recommending blanks. :headscratch:

Edited by patchyfog

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19 mins ago, patchyfog said:

So...if I want to put a new rod together for school tuna (and I do need to. for the sake of discussion, let's say 100# max, because I want nothing to do with BF bigger than that on fly...more like 40-50# would be what I'd target, if it were possible to be that choosy)..what would you suggest? I don't think I want a rod more than 8'. I don't know if you can getnto the point of recommending blanks. :headscratch:

 

I'm definitely not the expert but have been tuna fishing pretty much for much of my life. In terms of specific recommendations I wouldn't make one because I don't actively tuna fish with fly gear any more. Although the idea of repurposing a light popping rod is interesting.  Kil Song might have way better idea than me.

 

This conversation has centered mainly on fighting fish - that's the easy part.  Getting the fly in front of a large tuna's nose and getting it to eat is the hard part.  I would throw what I throw well be happy that I hooked any large tuna and break the fish off after 5 or 10 minutes.  A 100lb BFT on conventional stand up gear with a harness will put a severe beating on most guys - on a fly rod, forget it - only for masochists. The older I get, the more fishing for big fish on light gear, especially for tuna fish, seems foolhardy.  Catch the fish quick on heavy gear and kill or release but don't play with it. The perfect fly rod tuna is a blackfin - 20 - 40lbs.  plenty to pull crazy amounts of drag but not big enough to beat you up that bad or take 6 hours to land.

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"Those of us that started out with glass have no use for it today."

 

Speak for yourself.  A couple of years back I brought "Excelsior", my all time baddest ass Fenwick glass rod (9' 9 wt) to Cape Cod for the two week go-round.  Point was that, doing comparisons, I had noticed that 40 years later and umpteen generations of graphite and nanotitanium marketing, ole Excelsior only weighed 1/4 ounce more than the latest 9' 9 wts on the market......and cast just as far.

 

The guides loved it....and tried it.  One offered me real money  for it.  But I won't part with ole Excelsior.  I'm going down with the girl I brung.  She reminds me of my roots when I start to feel too uppity about the latest graphite $60 rod I bought from Cabelas.

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On 4/19/2018 at 11:58 AM, FishHawk II said:

The real vinyl is bamboo. FishHawk

Agreed.  This sport has gone to the dogs since they started building rods out of plastic.

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On 4/19/2018 at 6:47 PM, Cpalms said:

Fasten the anchor ball to the anchor line.  Hook a fish, untie the anchor line from your boat and throw anchor line with anchor ball attached into the water. Now you are quickly and easily unanchored.

Well, it isn't something you buy for a fishing trip to remote location

 

. And an old English fishing boat is not too nimble. And leaving the buoy for every fish would have not been too convenient. And doesn't really help at twin or triple hookups.

 

On 4/19/2018 at 6:47 PM, Cpalms said:

Fighting a tuna from an anchored boat when you don't have to is silly.  I'm assuming you were chumming, which I have no problem with but many would not consider it fly fishing.

Well, those YFTs went down right after the first run. No point in chasing. And the first run for the doubles or trebles were not always into the same direction.

 

Yes, unfortunately we had to chum, the tuna were not busting. I really do not prefer chumming, but I would not really choose it anymore. That was on my first tuna trip in 2010.

 

On 4/20/2018 at 1:47 AM, Cpalms said:

This conversation has centered mainly on fighting fish - that's the easy part.  Getting the fly in front of a large tuna's nose and getting it to eat is the hard part.  I would throw what I throw well be happy that I hooked any large tuna and break the fish off after 5 or 10 minutes.  A 100lb BFT on conventional stand up gear with a harness will put a severe beating on most guys - on a fly rod, forget it - only for masochists. The older I get, the more fishing for big fish on light gear, especially for tuna fish, seems foolhardy.  Catch the fish quick on heavy gear and kill or release but don't play with it. The perfect fly rod tuna is a blackfin - 20 - 40lbs.  plenty to pull crazy amounts of drag but not big enough to beat you up that bad or take 6 hours to land.

To get the fly in front is not always tough BFT. It was not last week. To get to eat, that's different. We hooked two fish and landed one 130cm+ fish that took me about 10 minutes to get boat side for release. I do not want to trash the ocean or leave hooks on fish unless that is the best option. Killing the fish by fighting it for way too long is a bad option, so in that case break off would be better. I used to think I don't want any bigger tuna than what I have caught. Now that I have fought one with my new gear, I don't fear to hook a bigger one anymore.

 

Anyway, I was much more happy to cast with my new rods than my previous (composite and graphite). The same goes for the fish fighting part on the one I got into action with. I know those are not for everyone, but I am much happier with them than with my previous gear and I don't have to seek better solutions to a problem since there is no problem anymore. And to me, having gear I like to use is what matters. And I like to put stupid bend on a fly rod...

 

 

 

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I just picked up a Scott F2 on fleabay last week.  Haven't fished it yet, but a lovely little thing.  7' 7" 4 wt; basically brand new.  It will get wet tomorrow after work.

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