hipkvw

Shooting Head Frustration!!! Question....

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128 posts in this topic

4 hours ago, snookster said:

When I flyfished often for stripers, I used a method of easily minimizing line twist. I learned this from fishing brushy ponds with no room for backcasts. On these ponds I had to use a roll cast most of the time. A roll cast introduces twist into your line. I learned I could negate the twist quite a bit by alternating normal forehanded  roll casts with back handed roll casts.

So in the surf or estuary I would use a roll cast to aerialize the line. Depending on the direction of the twist I would use either a normal roll cast or a backhand roll cast. In my case it was always a backhand roll cast that solved the problem. 

 

If the joining of the head to the running line creates a bump when retrieving, there is also a simple solution. Google "Dan Blanton Getting Looped". He details a method, using braided mono, for creating loops at the ends of the head and the running line. I've used this method for many years without ever having an issue. 

 

Great post snookster. We mentioned this to the guy but he's already cashed out of the shooting head scene...sad because the Dan Blanton thing you mention raelly makes for a better smoother connection than a welded loop I think. 

 

For line twist, I get twist in the same direction always, so I just amke it a practice to do twenty revolutions flipping the rod like in the video as needed. No need to investigate the twist or try to figure out if I've gotten it right althouth that is helpful. 

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3 hours ago, Local66 said:

Close. For this rig I use a couple feet of Gudebrod 35lb braided mono, splice it directly to the head, then use a different splicing method (I've never had a name for it) to join the Gudebrod to my SA braided PE running line. No bumps, even with single foot guides. Sounds nuts, but the weave on the SA braid is too tight to splice directly to the shooting head.

 

Thanks 

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3 hours ago, crunch said:

This could have had a smiley? When casting shooting heads there should be so long length of overhang that the loop to loop connection stay out of rod tip when haul is executed.

 

When I fish and strip line I take good grip using the line hand when this optimum overhang line length comes because line should not slip when I haul. Then I continue fishing and strip enough line which I know will lift to good back cast and I hold this point under rod hand forefinger. Then comes the cast and I lift rod and free as much line as possible and do back cast. When there is head wind I release forefinger and line head shoots out of rod tip and when line loop straightens I Drift and bring the line hand up and do forward cast, late haul and shoot. I do one more false cast cycle if I see the first back cast is not coming good. When it is calm or tail wind I often do one more false cast cycle and release the line to forward false cast.

 

Esa

Got it thanks :)

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On 4/10/2018 at 6:18 AM, hipkvw said:

This is on a 10wt set up. I have Rio Outbound Heads(INT. and Sink) and a shooting line that it so thin it keeps knotting BAD when I have a lot out for my cast. It drove me insane and I actually tore the casing untangling it as one point.

 

I got a Rio Outbound floater yesterday and took it fishing in the evening. I got REALLY bad line twist right away. Luckily using #30 mono. But if I had been using this tooth floss shooting line the shops are selling I too would have fallen victim to line twist. Still got some pretty bad twists in my shooting line. 

 

I think what was happening was that I was false casting a lot trying to figure out the head's characteristics as well as not casting all the shooting line I had off the reel on each cast. I think these things just led to twist sneaking on me. 

 

But thinking about your shooting head newbie, there really ought to be some better advice for these guys when they are at fly shop or maybe something put int he Rio fly box. Because if you don't know how to deal with line twist, and aren't prepared for it, you could be in real trouble! 

 

I think these outbound heads lend themselves to twisting with the WF taper. 

 

Separate from line twist, the floating head is pretty sweet. Maybe a bit heavy for my 8wt (330 grains) but It casts pretty far and unrolls nicely. 

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19 mins ago, Otshawytsha said:

 

I got a Rio Outbound floater yesterday and took it fishing in the evening. I got REALLY bad line twist right away. Luckily using #30 mono. But if I had been using this tooth floss shooting line the shops are selling I too would have fallen victim to line twist. Still got some pretty bad twists in my shooting line. 

 

I think what was happening was that I was false casting a lot trying to figure out the head's characteristics as well as not casting all the shooting line I had off the reel on each cast. I think these things just led to twist sneaking on me. 

 

But thinking about your shooting head newbie, there really ought to be some better advice for these guys when they are at fly shop or maybe something put int he Rio fly box. Because if you don't know how to deal with line twist, and aren't prepared for it, you could be in real trouble! 

 

I think these outbound heads lend themselves to twisting with the WF taper. 

 

Separate from line twist, the floating head is pretty sweet. Maybe a bit heavy for my 8wt (330 grains) but It casts pretty far and unrolls nicely. 

Yeah. Its crazy. As you know I abandoned shooting heads. I got a few lines and had a phenominal day of fishing yeaterday with no issues. 

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1 hour ago, hipkvw said:

Yeah. Its crazy. As you know I abandoned shooting heads. I got a few lines and had a phenominal day of fishing yeaterday with no issues. 

Right. You're the lost cause that should never have been a lost cause. Getting into shooting lines is a valuable exercise, but the line twist deal, WHEN MATED to the gstring shooting lines they're selling, can abort the exercise before it's basically started due to serious angler-caused equipment damage. 

 

My recommendation: the tackle shops spool newbie shooting anglers spools with 30lb or even 40lb mono shooting line and let them use that to get used to the head and the running line twist issue. And Rio should enclose a warning with their shooting heads including how to address line twist. 

 

There's no reason for people to end up like hipkvw. All it takes is a little education. We tried to educate hipkvw but he was too far gone. This should not happen to newbie shooting head anglers! Sad!

 

 

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On 4/14/2018 at 8:28 AM, Local66 said:

 The "bumps" are optional.

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Local I'm tempted to try this. Including buying that running line you have. I don't mind 30lb mono, you really lose the feel of the grab with it I find. Can you advise on how to splice?

Edited by Otshawytsha

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Late to the thread but heres my take. Did you go to shooting heads for the "magical" distance increase in casting?...aint gonna happen! Proper length/weight heads give you single spool versatility but rarely extra distance. If you're a good caster and matched the heads to the grain weight you're rod handles then heads rattling thru the guides when casting should be a non issue, heads should be roll cast outside the guides and sent on their way. I have one rod set up for heads and it works splendidly in its intended environment,. does take some time to dial it in just right though. Stay away from so called "running lines" for distance, the tangling issues more than offset the few extra feet of casting distance in real fishing scenarios.Use the back end of your favorite flyline for running line, the one that always tangled the least...never look back, enjoy!

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Surfrat's input is valued but I think there's more to shooting heads than just distance. Ease of casting. Once you have mastered the line twist issue, and set up your head to eliminate the annoying clanking of the connection through the guides, there's really no downside to them in terms ease of use in the right situation. 

 

I think if you are on a boat, and distance isn't as important, maybe you can you use a thicker running line. Still have to be aware of the old tangling and stuff. But if you are with a stripping basket, if you want distance that is easy, then shooting head with thinner-than-coated running line is the way to go. 

 

On other hand, mono shooting lines really take out some of the fun of the grab.  It just feels like a yoyo or something. 

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4 hours ago, Otshawytsha said:

 

Local I'm tempted to try this. Including buying that running line you have. I don't mind 30lb mono, you really lose the feel of the grab with it I find. Can you advise on how to splice?

 

  Just fair warning, when splicing a loop in the 35lb SA braided PE running line, I use #2 wire to feed a loop of 10lb braid through to execute the splice, and it isn't easy. I usually have to rinse blood off it after I finish my rigging. 

  The photograph shows a Rio OBS 9\I shooting head spliced directly to a section of 35lb Gudebrod braided mono. The braid is quite grippy (main reason I prefer braid over monofilament running lines like slickshooter etc.). Other than the nail knot used to secure the splice there's no monofilament at all. I'll try tracking down a video of the splicing method. I'm working on a project right now that isn't getting shelved for a splicing tutorial.

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Ok, there evidently isn't one. Hope these pictures help. This is 200lb Cortland C18 hollow core, and I used a pink sharpy on one end to better illustrate what's going on. You'll need a section of #2-#6 wire.

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Local that's an amazing SBS and yes it does look like it would be painful. Well when I get my hands some of that line I'll probably give it a shot. 

 

Good idea with the color marker on the line. 

 

Thanks a lot for posting. 

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OK, stupid question time.

 

For the guys using mono and mentioned having to soak it for a couple hours ahead of time.

How?

You can't be soaking the whole reel....

Filling a basin and stripping off the length you anticipate using?

 

Thanks for bearing with me :)

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31 mins ago, Otshawytsha said:

Local that's an amazing SBS and yes it does look like it would be painful. Well when I get my hands some of that line I'll probably give it a shot. 

 

Good idea with the color marker on the line. 

 

Thanks a lot for posting. 

That's Cortland C18, not my SA running line. Splicing hollow core spectra is cake. The sbs was just to show you how to splice two hollow core lines to one another.

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22 mins ago, Local66 said:

That's Cortland C18, not my SA running line. Splicing hollow core spectra is cake. The sbs was just to show you how to splice two hollow core lines to one another.

yeah I followed. you noted same in your post. If doing the splice with the real fly and running line is anything like splicing dacron core lines to each other it is probably pretty tough. 

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