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think about a new rule for the BST forum


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Tim

When someone offers to sell something and a guy offers to buy it and asks if he could show you pictures and the seller agrees to get back to you with pictures, He should still be first in line until the pictures are aired.  Before someone Jumps on it with     I"LL TAKE IT   its not fair to the seller and buyer?   The ( I'll take it guy ) should be second in line until the first guy sees the pictures and passes on it. Then the I'll take it guy becomes the next one in line toby it.   ccb

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What do you think Tim?   Its a used item and he ask for pictures. The sell agrees to send him pictures and in the mean time someone jumps in with the I'll Take It.  I can see if the sell didn't answer the first guy and in the interim the second gut said I'll take it.  Then it's sold. But he told the first guy he was sending him pictures on a used item.  I should think that the first guy should have the benefit of saying yes or no?  ccb

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1 hour ago, ccb said:

What do you think Tim?   Its a used item and he ask for pictures. The sell agrees to send him pictures and in the mean time someone jumps in with the I'll Take It.  I can see if the sell didn't answer the first guy and in the interim the second gut said I'll take it.  Then it's sold. But he told the first guy he was sending him pictures on a used item.  I should think that the first guy should have the benefit of saying yes or no?  ccb

While I agree that it feels like that’s how it should work. And very often that is how it works. Changing the rule to force sellers to get pictures, post them and then wait for the guy who wanted pictures to get back to the thread, look at the pictures and then decide is not consistent with our rules designed to keep things moving. If we forced sellers

to jump through hoops while another person is willing to “buy it now” would slow things down. It would create other problems like how long do we force them to wait to hear back from the guy who wanted the pictures? What if it takes place on Friday - do we force the seller to wait until Monday? And what do we do to potential buyers that see the pictures and decide they don’t want it but don’t say anything publicly? What if the potential buyer forgets to even look back at the thread?  That kinda stuff :o

 

The rules are made to keep things fair, in the open and moving. If the seller wants to they can jump through hoops, they can take more pictures, post them and wait as long as they want for a potential buyer to get back to the thread and back to them. Or that seller can simply sell to the person that says they’ll take it. I understand the desire to see pictures - but it wouldn’t be in the best interest of the forum to require sellers to jump through any hoops before being able to sell to someone that is willing to buy it now.

 

TimS

Show someone how to catch striped bass and they'll be ready to fish anywhere.
Show someone where to go striped bass fishing and you'll have a desperate report chaser with loose lips.

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1 hour ago, TimS said:

While I agree that it feels like that’s how it should work. And very often that is how it works. Changing the rule to force sellers to get pictures, post them and then wait for the guy who wanted pictures to get back to the thread, look at the pictures and then decide is not consistent with our rules designed to keep things moving. If we forced sellers

to jump through hoops while another person is willing to “buy it now” would slow things down. It would create other problems like how long do we force them to wait to hear back from the guy who wanted the pictures? What if it takes place on Friday - do we force the seller to wait until Monday? And what do we do to potential buyers that see the pictures and decide they don’t want it but don’t say anything publicly? What if the potential buyer forgets to even look back at the thread?  That kinda stuff :o

 

The rules are made to keep things fair, in the open and moving. If the seller wants to they can jump through hoops, they can take more pictures, post them and wait as long as they want for a potential buyer to get back to the thread and back to them. Or that seller can simply sell to the person that says they’ll take it. I understand the desire to see pictures - but it wouldn’t be in the best interest of the forum to require sellers to jump through any hoops before being able to sell to someone that is willing to buy it now.

 

TimS

I not saying to force someone into pictures. I ‘m saying if a guy asks for pictures and the seller said ok I will send you pictures that that should be a agreement between those two until he sends the pictures.  Once the pictures are posted, then the buyer has 12 or 24 hours to respond. ( yes or no)    On the other hand if the guy asks for pictures and the next guy says I ‘ll Take it  and the seller hasn’t answered and got back to the first guy then the  first guy loses out . 

Then the second guy get it with the I’ll take it.  

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I have missed out on some great deals over the last decade waiting on pictures. I have started to take a risk and buy if I really want it. 

 

First “I will take it” gets it. Keeps it simple and straight forward as a seller and a buyer. 

 

For example, I bought a flatlander bag last week. Someone asked for size of the bag and that information is readily available on the builders website. Should the seller pass on my “I will take it” to provide information that is available in seconds using a google search?

 

Over the years I have also been passed over when I posted “I will take it” when the seller got a PM and sold via PM. Chit happens, I got over it. 

 

I like how things adapt here to be fair to everyone. We are fortunate to have a reliable place to buy and sell. 

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I think we have all been passed over ?  But when something is second hand , sometimes it’s good to see what your buying   Rather then by disappointed  after the sale?  When the buyer ask for pictures and the seller agrees to post pictures , I think the next guy in line should wait until he decides yes or no. If he doesn’t answer (seller) and someone says ( I’ll take it )  that’s a different story.   Then it’s his. 

I just thought it was a fair way of doing it.  I just felt bad for a guy that was waiting for his pictures and in the end another comes along and gets it, after the seller agreed to post pictures for him.  

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I was just going over Tims rules and spotted this ?

(**"I'll take it" does not mean you automatically get the item - the seller can choose to continue their discussions/negotiations with ANYONE that posted BEFORE your I'll take it - but no one AFTER your "I'll take it". In other words, if the first response is a question and the second response is "I'll take it", then the seller can choose to answer the questions of #1 or just sell the item to #2.)

 

In this case I would say that the agreement to provide pictures was a negotiation?  I don't think the seller even knew this part of the rule?  Because he told the 1st buyer that he had to sell it to the 2nd buyer because he said I'LL TAKE IT?   Sometimes you ask a question and the seller doesn't get back to you for days?  I think they forgot that they even posted it?   I just was just trying to make it fair for everyone. 

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22 hours ago, ccb said:

then the buyer has 12 or 24 hours to respond. ( yes or no)  

This adds enormous potential delays - first, the seller has to take the photos. If he had them already he would have likely already posted them. Chance are, he’s at work - so it will have to wait until after work. Now it’s dinner/night time. So it’ll probably be tomorrow before the pictures are seen - if the potential buyer remembers - and has time to check them out. Maybe he gets busy...or forgets...or sees them and isn’t sure so he doesn’t respond right away. Now it’s been 24 hours - so the seller decides to sell it to the guy who wanted to buy it now. So he posts in the thread that it’s his - except that guy isn’t online, it’s been 30 hours. That guy doesn’t get back to the thread until the next day - now the guy that wanted pictures decided he wants the item - a day and a half later and the item still isn’t sold. 

 

The he way I look at it, until someone accepts the terms and price, the item is available. Even if the seller agrees to send pictures to a tire kicker. The seller didn’t know someone was going to accept his terms when he agreed to send the pictures. The tire kicker may lose out to the guy who chose to buy it now. That’s the risk associated with kicking tires - if you want something, buy it. We want the rules to accomplish three things:

1. Be fair to everyone.

2. Give the seller the choice to humor tire kickers and jump through hoops OR to just sell their item when someone accepts their terms - EVEN if they are presently humoring tiring kickers or are negotiating with someone trying to get a reduced price.

3. Keep things uncomplicated, understandable and moving.

 

If we were to force sellers to engage tire kickers and make them wait 12-24 hours for responses from tire kickers before they could sell the item there would be additional ‘rules’ necessary to enforce that rule. And that rule would violate Rule #5 that allows the seller to sell to the first person that accepts their terms. Rules that violate other rules tend to really make things confusing ;)

 

TimS

Show someone how to catch striped bass and they'll be ready to fish anywhere.
Show someone where to go striped bass fishing and you'll have a desperate report chaser with loose lips.

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16 hours ago, ged said:

Over the years I have also been passed over when I posted “I will take it” when the seller got a PM and sold via PM. Chit happens, I got over it.

Whenever this is reported - and it’s extremely rare when it is - I check into it. For every ten times it’s reported one of those times it might actually have happened. And nearly 100% of the time that I’ve confirmed it, one or both people involved are removed from the BST forum and/or lose access to PMs here. 

 

If this actually happened to you - I hope you reported it. Generally when someone suspects it happened to them, it didn’t. Sometimes the seller ended up selling it to a friend or keeping it. Selling via PM, even when they didn’t already sell it in the thread, is cause for removal here. If people don’t report it we can’t do anything about it :)

 

TimS

Show someone how to catch striped bass and they'll be ready to fish anywhere.
Show someone where to go striped bass fishing and you'll have a desperate report chaser with loose lips.

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14 hours ago, ccb said:

In this case I would say that the agreement to provide pictures was a negotiation?  I don't think the seller even knew this part of the rule?  Because he told the 1st buyer that he had to sell it to the 2nd buyer because he said I'LL TAKE IT? 

This is a common misunderstanding. And it’s not because I have EVER said it :) I’ve made it clear in, I’m guessing, more than 100 different discussions, that it’s the sellers choice. Accepting the sellers terms is a place holder. The seller can choose to continue their hoop jumping with folks who posted earlier in the thread - but no one after their terms are accepted. 

 

I’d consider the agreement to send pictures as tire kicking. Tire kicking is what buyers do when they aren’t sure. A buyer can enter the discussion and tell the seller that they accept their terms. Now the seller can decide - so I want to just sell it to the guy waving the money at me? Or do I want to keep jumping through hoops in hope the tire kicker decides to take it? That decision is up to them - we don’t tell them what they have to do. We only tell them if you decide not to entertain the tire kickers any further then the guy waving the money at you should get it, no one further down the thread. 

 

I think that is the most fair way to handle online sales. You can choose to jump through hoops or just sell it to the guy waving money at you. Any negotiating or tire kicking is welcome to continue if the seller wants - or they can just sell it to the guy who wants it now. 

 

People have repeated Rule #5 incorrectly for years as “The first I’ll take it gets it”. That’s overly simplified. Technically, it’s true - if five guys say Ill take it - the first one gets it. It changes slightly when the seller has already engaged tire kickers before the Ill take it - now the seller gets to choose  :)

 

TimS

 

Show someone how to catch striped bass and they'll be ready to fish anywhere.
Show someone where to go striped bass fishing and you'll have a desperate report chaser with loose lips.

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1 hour ago, TimS said:

This adds enormous potential delays - first, the seller has to take the photos. If he had them already he would have likely already posted them. Chance are, he’s at work - so it will have to wait until after work. Now it’s dinner/night time. So it’ll probably be tomorrow before the pictures are seen - if the potential buyer remembers - and has time to check them out. Maybe he gets busy...or forgets...or sees them and isn’t sure so he doesn’t respond right away. Now it’s been 24 hours - so the seller decides to sell it to the guy who wanted to buy it now. So he posts in the thread that it’s his - except that guy isn’t online, it’s been 30 hours. That guy doesn’t get back to the thread until the next day - now the guy that wanted pictures decided he wants the item - a day and a half later and the item still isn’t sold. 

 

The he way I look at it, until someone accepts the terms and price, the item is available. Even if the seller agrees to send pictures to a tire kicker. The seller didn’t know someone was going to accept his terms when he agreed to send the pictures. The tire kicker may lose out to the guy who chose to buy it now. That’s the risk associated with kicking tires - if you want something, buy it. We want the rules to accomplish three things:

1. Be fair to everyone.

2. Give the seller the choice to humor tire kickers and jump through hoops OR to just sell their item when someone accepts their terms - EVEN if they are presently humoring tiring kickers or are negotiating with someone trying to get a reduced price.

3. Keep things uncomplicated, understandable and moving.

 

If we were to force sellers to engage tire kickers and make them wait 12-24 hours for responses from tire kickers before they could sell the item there would be additional ‘rules’ necessary to enforce that rule. And that rule would violate Rule #5 that allows the seller to sell to the first person that accepts their terms. Rules that violate other rules tend to really make things confusing ;)

 

TimS

It has only happened a few time, and both were “newer” members that didn’t understand (or ignored) the rules. I think both were reported. 

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I think the first i will take it gets it. What if you say i will take it depending on the pictures.  The guy who post after you with an i will take it has to wait on a decision.  He goes and gets it some where else you don't like the pictures and the seller does not have a deal. Hopefully this is clear  as mud but in my mind it makes sense

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Well I tell you the truth, I didn’t remember the part where the seller had a choice ?   The tire kicker or the i’ll Take it guy.  So be it .  He has a choice. If the guy was sinsere and I told him I would send pictures , after the pictures I would give him first shot .  That’s me , but if I didn’t sent the pictures and get the message,  I would sell it to the I’ll take it guy ?   Thanks for info Tim 

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On 4/9/2018 at 1:00 PM, crazybellringer said:

I think the first i will take it gets it. What if you say i will take it depending on the pictures.  The guy who post after you with an i will take it has to wait on a decision.  He goes and gets it some where else you don't like the pictures and the seller does not have a deal. Hopefully this is clear  as mud but in my mind it makes sense

The seller gets to choose - he can jump through hoops OR sell it to the first I’ll take it. 

 

There is no magic bullet that ends negotiation and forces the seller to stop jumping through hoops. The SELLER always gets to decide whether they want to continue jumping through hoops or just say “Sold to the guy wasn’t tire kicking and trying to beat me up for $3 off” :)

 

TimS

Show someone how to catch striped bass and they'll be ready to fish anywhere.
Show someone where to go striped bass fishing and you'll have a desperate report chaser with loose lips.

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