aquaholik

New Promising Knot : FG Variation - Relix Knot

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I'm a little confused as to the finish you're talking about, let me see if I understand. Do the 2:1 relix knot 15 times, then just wrap the tag end of the braid around the braid / mono, then just mono 12 more times? Then lock it with a half hitch and tighten? This wrapping of braid /mono, braid continues all in the same direction, right? It'd be nice if someone could post a video of the whole process.

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3 hours ago, chitala383 said:

I'm a little confused as to the finish you're talking about, let me see if I understand. Do the 2:1 relix knot 15 times, then just wrap the tag end of the braid around the braid / mono, then just mono 12 more times? Then lock it with a half hitch and tighten? This wrapping of braid /mono, braid continues all in the same direction, right? It'd be nice if someone could post a video of the whole process.

 If you look at the video, the Relix Knot is a 3 part knot. First thing is don't do part 3. Second is do part 1 15 times, so 15 2-1 wraps. Part 2 in the video is using the tag end of the braid, wrap it over mono, then wrap it over mono/braid. Do that a total of 24 times. After you do that, just lock it with several half hitches. So discard part 3 in the video and substitute several half hitches for part 3.

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13 hours ago, aquaholik said:

Yes. But the dozen mono - mono/ braid is really 24 wraps...

O.K. so in part 2 (after you do the 15x 2:1 wraps) you applied the braid over mono/braid over braid plus mono (= 24 wraps over mono). Then no part 3 just a couple (or a few) half hitches.  Result:  10% improvement over a similar length FG knot in a non-slippery braid like the Berkeley Pro Spec/Tracer.

 

The total number of wraps that seems to be equal between the two test knots is not really equal though perhaps the length of the knots is similar.  Using your math:  45+24 = 69.   If it were 30 + 24 = 54 (that is still more than 44 total wraps over mono in the 22x FG).

 

I guess you were going for equal length knots?  Not exactly matching the number of turns over mono between the two?

 

Can you try this same experiment with a lighter more slippery braid - something super slippery like Sufix "performance" 30lb??  The question remaining in my mind is will this improved version slip and over-tighten with a nasty slippery material.

 

Thanks for this exceptional work!!!

Edited by Killiefish

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Posted (edited) · Report post

58 mins ago, Killiefish said:

O.K. so in part 2 (after you do the 15x 2:1 wraps) you applied the braid over mono/braid over braid plus mono (= 24 wraps over mono). Then no part 3 just a couple (or a few) half hitches.  Result:  10% improvement over a similar length FG knot in a non-slippery braid like the Berkeley Pro Spec/Tracer.

 

The total number of wraps that seems to be equal between the two test knots is not really equal though perhaps the length of the knots is similar.  Using your math:  45+24 = 69.   If it were 30 + 24 = 54 (that is still more than 44 total wraps over mono in the 22x FG).

 

I guess you were going for equal length knots?  Not exactly matching the number of turns over mono between the two?

 

Can you try this same experiment with a lighter more slippery braid - something super slippery like Sufix "performance" 30lb??  The question remaining in my mind is will this improved version slip and over-tighten with a nasty slippery material.

 

Thanks for this exceptional work!!!

No, they are equal and similar length:

 

FG with Relix Finish: 22 1-1 + 24= 68

Relix with Relix Finish 15 2-1 + 24 = 69

 

We know that the FG does not improve with length. Not sure if it hurts it but longer is not stronger. Having test a bobbin wrap FG, there is something about taking the load of the main knot that helps to improve on the overall strength.

 

When I test the FG knot, it tends to spin and does twist the braid. But that still does not explain a 60-65% FG knot strength in higher ABS braid. The twisting should not drop the KBS by that much. And the twisting occurs for low ABS braid also but the KBS is still 90% for Nanofil and Gliss and those are very slippery braids.

 

The Relix Finish seems to keep the main braid line straight and the knot does not twist as much when test to failure.

 

My main reason for testing the Relix Knot is not the overtightening or tightening in the back/front slippery braid, etc. It is purely to improve the low FG knot strength in braids over 50 lbs where inexplicably, the FG knot tends to dip towards the 60%. This even happen with soft 8 strand Berkeley Pro Spec Braid which I did not expect being a good quality spectra.

 

I have no doubt in my mind that the finishing does matter and in the case of the Relix knot, the 2-1 and the braid over mono - mono/braid finish definitely improves on the regular FG.

 

I love the PR knot for it's brute strength but the length of the knot does not cast thru guides. This is why I rather tie the FG and then use a bobbin  to finish it. It's a short strong knot that is 80%+. But a bobbin is not always handy so the 2-1 with the Relix Finish is a good alternative that doesn't take much longer than the regular FG.

 

Again this is for braid's whose ABS is 50 lbs or higher. FG knot is plenty strong for braids below that ABS.

 

More testing to be done with 80 lbs Spiderwire Camo and see if the 10% improvement over standard FG carry over.

Edited by aquaholik

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Is there any benefit to using this knot vs a standard fg with the same finish on lighter line? I just respooled one of my surf reels with 15# spiderwire ultracast invisibraid and used this knot to connect to 20# seguar blue label fluoro for lighter plugging. I guess it doesn't really matter as long as it's at least as strong as a standard fg, it's not like it's any harder to tie.

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So I tied my standard fg with 22 wraps(1 wrap = both sides) and tied the relix with step 1 and 2 with several half hitches as a finish using 20 lb maxcuatro. Using my own diy method with a scale that holds the point of breakage, the relix broke consistently between the .75 and 1 lb mark higher than the fg. Not a significant improvement but an improvement, nonetheless. Pictures here, fg and relix:

 

AEAC43EB-EA80-4E8E-BFAE-A1A83298EEBB.jpeg

B8CDFC78-52D5-4604-B4C9-517CBF8541CF.jpeg

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On 5/5/2018 at 3:07 AM, Kellerman2006 said:

So I tied my standard fg with 22 wraps(1 wrap = both sides) and tied the relix with step 1 and 2 with several half hitches as a finish using 20 lb maxcuatro. Using my own diy method with a scale that holds the point of breakage, the relix broke consistently between the .75 and 1 lb mark higher than the fg. Not a significant improvement but an improvement, nonetheless. Pictures here, fg and relix:

 

AEAC43EB-EA80-4E8E-BFAE-A1A83298EEBB.jpeg

B8CDFC78-52D5-4604-B4C9-517CBF8541CF.jpeg

Did the knot fail in the same place?  Probably at the end where the braid exits the mono.  Looks like you also melt the mono tip. 

 

That is around a 4% increase in strength (using the listed line strength, less if that line particular line breaks above listed - so possibly not significant).

 

Thanks for testing this with lighter braid.  Although this is only one trial (n=1) the Relix step1/step 2 does seem to be the better knot.

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Ok I'm more convince that this is the go to best hand tied line to leader knot without a bobbin, unless your Bimini knot skill is 100% every time.

 

Spiderwire Stealth Camo 80 lbs

ABS = 111.71 lbs

FG 22 turns each side with 10 alternating half hitches = 69.20 lb = 62% knot strength.

 

Relix Knot:

15 2-1 with 24 mono-mono/braid wraps and 3 half hitches = 81.50 lbs but the 80lbs leader broke, not the braid.

20 2-1 with 24 mono-mono/braid wraps and 3 half hitches = 83.10 lbs, braid broke this time.

15 2-1 with 24 mono-mono/braid wraps and 3 half hitches = 84.30 lbs but the 80lbs leader broke, not the braid.

 

So 15 2-1 seems to be optimal and the Relix KBS is at least 76%, a huge 14 % jump from the regular FG knot.

 

So so far, in heavy line and leader testing, the 10-14% improvement is very real.

 

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Will have to revisit this knot next week. Just tried it with 20 lbs Maxcuatro and tested it twice. It broke at 32.40 and 35.70. That's 90-100%.

 

The difference this time is the alternating wraps which follows the 6 2-1 wraps(8-10 2-1 wraps is better). Bump that up to 46 time instead of the 12 times shown in the video. Big improvement. Will have to test with heavier line and see if the improvement over the FG knot continues with heavier braid.

 

Will also have to do modified FG using the second part. It's the second part that keeps the braid straight and not twisting when doing break test.

Edited by aquaholik

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On 5/5/2018 at 6:07 AM, Kellerman2006 said:

So I tied my standard fg with 22 wraps(1 wrap = both sides) and tied the relix with step 1 and 2 with several half hitches as a finish using 20 lb maxcuatro. Using my own diy method with a scale that holds the point of breakage, the relix broke consistently between the .75 and 1 lb mark higher than the fg. Not a significant improvement but an improvement, nonetheless. Pictures here, fg and relix:

 

AEAC43EB-EA80-4E8E-BFAE-A1A83298EEBB.jpeg

B8CDFC78-52D5-4604-B4C9-517CBF8541CF.jpeg

Do me a big favor. Do 8 2-1 and 22 pairs of wrap over braid, braid mono (so 44 total). Then just finish with 3 half hitch. Test it for me. I got impressive results with Maxcuatro 20 lbs. 

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Posted (edited) · Report post

How does a person tie any of these knots on a beach, with the wind blowing, and less that better-than-perfect eyesight?

 

I'm sticking with a triple surgeon's knot! :howdy:

Edited by The Zen Master

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On 2/27/2018 at 2:01 PM, EricDice said:

Nice find. I am going to try this one.

 

I used the PR knot once and I got it perfect with the best strength I’ve ever tried with braid & leader. However, since that first time, I’ve been unable to get a PR to stay on the leader. It always slips off the back past the melted bulb. I switched back to FG. 

 

Some of my FG knots have been getting tight first by the main line instead of tightening down and getting translucent at the front where the mono and braid meet. So, I tried an alternative. I did ten wraps of standard feel FG. I snug it tight and pinch by the tag end. I pull the main line to start slight cinching and pull the tag end again to keep it all semi finished. Then, I wrap the tag end tightly coiled around both mono and braid like you would do for a standard PR knot. About 20 or 30 wraps. Then I finish like a standard PR knot. This way tightens down perfectly. I can’t picture it ever breaking at the knot. 

Eric,

Ever go back to the PR? I've been using it for non-casting setups like trolling or jigging, it's too big to cast. So far so good with it but no real tests (a fish that equals lb test of line) yet. I also find it easier to tie at the bench, but not on the boat.

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