mistreci

Penn Battle 2 4000, can it be combined with a taller rod?

18 posts in this topic

I have researched a few forums and noticed that many people recommend combining longer rods with bigger Penn series like 6000 or 8000. Is there any reason why you wouldn't combine a 12' rod with a penn battle 4000 reel? I noticed it can support up to 180 yards of 30# braid line which is more than enough for surf casting? Please, help me understand this as I'm looking to make a combination like this in a near future.

 

Thank You!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mistreci, Perhaps the Penn rep can weigh in on the capacity issue: I have found that my Battle II 4000 can only carry about 190 yards of 20lb powerpro. It's important because when I have loaded on 200 yards I get windknots. If you're looking to fish 30# braid you should try to find out from someone who uses the same braid brand as you and ask how much they can put on. 

 

I got the yardage figures from the guy at the tackle shop who filled by reel. We filled past the gold capacity ring once and that was about 220 yards I think, maybe a little less. Then we sort of half covered the capacity ring and that was 200 yards. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎10‎/‎29‎/‎2017 at 10:34 PM, mistreci said:

I have researched a few forums and noticed that many people recommend combining longer rods with bigger Penn series like 6000 or 8000. Is there any reason why you wouldn't combine a 12' rod with a penn battle 4000 reel? I noticed it can support up to 180 yards of 30# braid line which is more than enough for surf casting? Please, help me understand this as I'm looking to make a combination like this in a near future.

 

Thank You!

 

Mistreci, The 12' rods balance best with a 6000+ size reels, the 4000 will balance best with the 8-10' rods.  The extra length wont necessarily give you more casting distance if that's what you are looking for in going with a 12' rod? 

 

tony

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, PENN Fishing said:

 

Mistreci, The 12' rods balance best with a 6000+ size reels, the 4000 will balance best with the 8-10' rods.  The extra length wont necessarily give you more casting distance if that's what you are looking for in going with a 12' rod? 

 

tony

Thanks Tony, actually yes I'm looking for more casting distance. I already have a penn 4000 combo which comes with a 7' penn rod. I'll probable buy a 10' ugly stick bigwater and combine it with the reel from the penn combo. From my own experience ugly sticks are great rods but their reels suck. Penn makes medium quality rods (my opinion) and great reels. Anyways good to hear for the first time that the battle 4000 series can be combined with a 10' rod as most people would only recommend it with a 7 or 8' max 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What about the braid capacity issue I raised? 180 yards of 30lb braid raises a question in my mind. Like I said, about 190 yards of 20lb Powerpro fills up my spool to the capacity line. More than that, like 200 yards, and I just end up with wind knots. But at 190 yards, maybe a little less, I don't get wind knots.

 

I think the reel is rated for 220 yards of 20lb braid. 

 

But with braids some are much thicker at a given breaking strength.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Otshawytsha said:

What about the braid capacity issue I raised? 180 yards of 30lb braid raises a question in my mind. Like I said, about 190 yards of 20lb Powerpro fills up my spool to the capacity line. More than that, like 200 yards, and I just end up with wind knots. But at 190 yards, maybe a little less, I don't get wind knots.

 

I think the reel is rated for 220 yards of 20lb braid. 

 

But with braids some are much thicker at a given breaking strength.  

I'm not sure about that as I don't spool it at the tackle store, I just spool it with 30lb line and can't measure the length unfortunately. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/1/2017 at 8:41 AM, PENN Fishing said:

 

Mistreci, The 12' rods balance best with a 6000+ size reels, the 4000 will balance best with the 8-10' rods.  The extra length wont necessarily give you more casting distance if that's what you are looking for in going with a 12' rod? 

 

tony

Tony sorry but you were wrong! The 4000 series is not recommended for 8-10' rods and now I know why. I used the 4000 series for saltwater yesterday and was barely able to pull schoolie stripers. In other words the 4000 series is made for light weight fish

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, mistreci said:

Tony sorry but you were wrong! The 4000 series is not recommended for 8-10' rods and now I know why. I used the 4000 series for saltwater yesterday and was barely able to pull schoolie stripers. In other words the 4000 series is made for light weight fish

I'm sorry, but please don't blame Tony that no one explained to you how to land a fish.  You don't "pull" the fish in the with the reel...that's not why it hanging on the bottom of your rod. It's a device to hold line and apply drag to wear out a fish - you "pull" the fish with the rod. Cranking the handle and expecting the fish to come towards you isn't how fishing gear works. That long rod you are using - THAT'S the device for "pulling" in the fish...you pull the fish with the rod...and then turn the reel handle to pick up the line :read: 

 

They don't make a reel for "pulling" in striped bass...no one does...that's not a thing ;)  I've caught some double digit blackfish on a Battle 2000...they will pull your arms off - by using the fishing rod as it was designed, I landed these fish...zero "pulling" with the fishing reel...just the rod. Tony was not wrong...the 4000 sized reels are excellent choices for 7-9ft rods...and certainly passable on some 10ft rods. You could put an 8500 sized reel on a 12 ft rod and it still won't "pull" striped bass in...you will still need to use the rod to move the fish and use the reel to pick up the line. In fact, the fastest way to destroy for fishing reels is to hold the rod still and crank as hard as you can on the reel to try and move the fish...guaranteed to take years off the life of any fishing reel...and not at all what they were designed to do. Lift with the rod, pull the fish towards you with the rod then crank in the line when you lower the rod back towards the fish...lift with the rod, reel in the line as you lower the rod towards the fish...repeat...if the fish runs, hold the rod still at a comfortable angle to let the drag work against the fish - don't try to crank the handle while the fish is running....when it stops running, lift the rod, pull the fish towards you, then reel up the extra line as you lower the rod towards the fish again...repeat until the fish is landed :read:

 

Remember the ROD is for pulling the fish...the REEL is used for holding the line and to apply drag to wear out the fish....never use the reel to "pull" in the fish...that's not why it's hanging there :)

 

TimS

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/1/2017 at 10:08 PM, mistreci said:

Thanks Tony, actually yes I'm looking for more casting distance.

Looking back at the original question - if you are looking for more casting distance get a bigger spinning reel or use thinner braid. Putting a 4000 sized reel on a 10ft rod would be done to save weight...if you are trying to maximize casting distance, use a 6000 sized reel - or use thinner braid on a 5000 sized reel. 30# braid on a 4000 sized reel isn't ideal for casting distance unless it's very thin 30# braid. You'd get more distance by putting a lot of braid on a larger reel - ideally, at the end of a long cast the spool shouldn't look much lower than it was before your cast. The more noticeable the missing line is from the spool at the end of your cast, the more your distance is being affected by the size of the spool to braid thickness relationship. If the spool still looks pretty full at the end of a long cast then your reel size and braid size/thickness choice are good :th:  If, at the end of a long cast, your spool looks like it's 1/3 empty...you either need a bigger reel or much thinner braid :)

 

TimS

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, TimS said:

I'm sorry, but please don't blame Tony that no one explained to you how to land a fish.  You don't "pull" the fish in the with the reel...that's not why it hanging on the bottom of your rod. It's a device to hold line and apply drag to wear out a fish - you "pull" the fish with the rod. Cranking the handle and expecting the fish to come towards you isn't how fishing gear works. That long rod you are using - THAT'S the device for "pulling" in the fish...you pull the fish with the rod...and then turn the reel handle to pick up the line :read: 

 

They don't make a reel for "pulling" in striped bass...no one does...that's not a thing ;)  I've caught some double digit blackfish on a Battle 2000...they will pull your arms off - by using the fishing rod as it was designed, I landed these fish...zero "pulling" with the fishing reel...just the rod. Tony was not wrong...the 4000 sized reels are excellent choices for 7-9ft rods...and certainly passable on some 10ft rods. You could put an 8500 sized reel on a 12 ft rod and it still won't "pull" striped bass in...you will still need to use the rod to move the fish and use the reel to pick up the line. In fact, the fastest way to destroy for fishing reels is to hold the rod still and crank as hard as you can on the reel to try and move the fish...guaranteed to take years off the life of any fishing reel...and not at all what they were designed to do. Lift with the rod, pull the fish towards you with the rod then crank in the line when you lower the rod back towards the fish...lift with the rod, reel in the line as you lower the rod towards the fish...repeat...if the fish runs, hold the rod still at a comfortable angle to let the drag work against the fish - don't try to crank the handle while the fish is running....when it stops running, lift the rod, pull the fish towards you, then reel up the extra line as you lower the rod towards the fish again...repeat until the fish is landed :read:

 

Remember the ROD is for pulling the fish...the REEL is used for holding the line and to apply drag to wear out the fish....never use the reel to "pull" in the fish...that's not why it's hanging there :)

 

TimS

 

^ it never ceases to amaze me how foreign this concept is to novice and even intermediate fisherpeople.  

 

Should maybe be a sticky somewhere under "lose the hard plastic tackle box, you dont need a vanstall, and dont hold your reel upside down".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 mins ago, 55555s said:

^ it never ceases to amaze me how foreign this concept is to novice and even intermediate fisherpeople.  

 

Should maybe be a sticky somewhere under "lose the hard plastic tackle box, you dont need a vanstall, and dont hold your reel upside down".

I honestly don't judge people by the gear they carry or the way they hold their rods...but did feel compelled to explain that the reel is not the "pulling" device in the rod and reel outfit. The pulling is for the long stick in your hand...the reel just carries the line in an organized fashion and applies drag to tired bigger fish :)

 

I've seen people struggle to hold a rod perfectly still while they applied every ounce of pressure they could to the reel handle - this usually results in stripped gears, broken handles and fish getting away...as you noted, it's not uncommon...which means a lot more people still haven't had this explained to them. Honestly, it's not their fault...we all need to do a better job explaining the "after you hook a fish" part of fishing. I know I'm very guilty of just talking about how to get to the point where you hook the fish...I have certainly taken for granted for a long time that people understood the rest :o  I'm gonna work on remembering this moving forward and try to explain the "after" part more frequently :)

 

TimS

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, TimS said:

I'm sorry, but please don't blame Tony that no one explained to you how to land a fish.  You don't "pull" the fish in the with the reel...that's not why it hanging on the bottom of your rod. It's a device to hold line and apply drag to wear out a fish - you "pull" the fish with the rod. Cranking the handle and expecting the fish to come towards you isn't how fishing gear works. That long rod you are using - THAT'S the device for "pulling" in the fish...you pull the fish with the rod...and then turn the reel handle to pick up the line :read: 

 

They don't make a reel for "pulling" in striped bass...no one does...that's not a thing ;)  I've caught some double digit blackfish on a Battle 2000...they will pull your arms off - by using the fishing rod as it was designed, I landed these fish...zero "pulling" with the fishing reel...just the rod. Tony was not wrong...the 4000 sized reels are excellent choices for 7-9ft rods...and certainly passable on some 10ft rods. You could put an 8500 sized reel on a 12 ft rod and it still won't "pull" striped bass in...you will still need to use the rod to move the fish and use the reel to pick up the line. In fact, the fastest way to destroy for fishing reels is to hold the rod still and crank as hard as you can on the reel to try and move the fish...guaranteed to take years off the life of any fishing reel...and not at all what they were designed to do. Lift with the rod, pull the fish towards you with the rod then crank in the line when you lower the rod back towards the fish...lift with the rod, reel in the line as you lower the rod towards the fish...repeat...if the fish runs, hold the rod still at a comfortable angle to let the drag work against the fish - don't try to crank the handle while the fish is running....when it stops running, lift the rod, pull the fish towards you, then reel up the extra line as you lower the rod towards the fish again...repeat until the fish is landed :read:

 

Remember the ROD is for pulling the fish...the REEL is used for holding the line and to apply drag to wear out the fish....never use the reel to "pull" in the fish...that's not why it's hanging there :)

 

TimS

Thanks for the detailed explanation TimS. Anyways I didn't just literally mean that I used the reel to pull the schoolies. I know exactly how to use the rod to pull a fish and I have pulled plenty over 40" striped bass at Cape Cod Canal. Let me explain 2 main points and I'm sure it will make more sense:

 

- Why did I think of using smaller rods with longer rods!? 

       I use a 40lb test line which is 25% thinner (don't wan't to advertise the name here), that said it is equal to 30lb line. If the 4000 reel can hold 180 yards of 30 lb line (which is actually 40), that is more than enough capacity even for saltwater surf fishing (correct me if I'm wrong here). Considering this fact, then i thought why waste line on a larger reel while I can use less line on a smaller reel and combine it with a 10' rod so it can be optimized for saltwater fishing. 

 

- I did what I mentioned above and the result was disappointing. I know that you use the rod to pull the fish but the reel is a great factor too although it is not used to "pull" the fish. To prove this, try to catch a striped bass of the size that you are holding in your hand with a 12' rod and a 4000 series reel and then you will see exactly what I mean by that! In other words, the 4000 series is not made for heavy weight fishing and should be combined with a 7' rod. if you have a look at penn combos, they only combine the 4000 with a 7' rod, I'm sure they have a good reason for that as well.

 

Now last thing is how not to waste line on a larger reel? Well my method is very basic, you can judge me for that but it works for me! I put 50lb mono in the beginning just enough so I can put 200 more yards of braid and then I tie the mono to braid using the double uni knot. The 6000 series would take about 500 yards of 30lb braid line, I'm sure I will never use or cast more than 200 then why waste it, especially in the case of using the expensive type of line that I mentioned above

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, mistreci said:

Thanks for the detailed explanation TimS. Anyways I didn't just literally mean that I used the reel to pull the schoolies. I know exactly how to use the rod to pull a fish and I have pulled plenty over 40" striped bass at Cape Cod Canal. Let me explain 2 main points and I'm sure it will make more sense:

 

- Why did I think of using smaller rods with longer rods!? 

       I use a 40lb test line which is 25% thinner (don't wan't to advertise the name here), that said it is equal to 30lb line. If the 4000 reel can hold 180 yards of 30 lb line (which is actually 40), that is more than enough capacity even for saltwater surf fishing (correct me if I'm wrong here). Considering this fact, then i thought why waste line on a larger reel while I can use less line on a smaller reel and combine it with a 10' rod so it can be optimized for saltwater fishing. 

 

- I did what I mentioned above and the result was disappointing. I know that you use the rod to pull the fish but the reel is a great factor too although it is not used to "pull" the fish. To prove this, try to catch a striped bass of the size that you are holding in your hand with a 12' rod and a 4000 series reel and then you will see exactly what I mean by that! In other words, the 4000 series is not made for heavy weight fishing and should be combined with a 7' rod. if you have a look at penn combos, they only combine the 4000 with a 7' rod, I'm sure they have a good reason for that as well.

 

Now last thing is how not to waste line on a larger reel? Well my method is very basic, you can judge me for that but it works for me! I put 50lb mono in the beginning just enough so I can put 200 more yards of braid and then I tie the mono to braid using the double uni knot. The 6000 series would take about 500 yards of 30lb braid line, I'm sure I will never use or cast more than 200 then why waste it, especially in the case of using the expensive type of line that I mentioned above

The minimum amount of braid I put on a reel is 300 yards. It’s not wasted :)

 

I wouldn’t fish a surf reel with 200 yards of line on it...i’m expecting to cast over 100 yards....I’m also expecting to get snagged here and there and loose line. If your reel holds 180 yards of the line you want to use - get a bigger reel...or use thinner braid. The rod length has nothing to do with your casting issues - you need thinner triad or a bigger reel.

 

You said the 4000 reel couldn’t pull your bass in - that’s becasue the reel isn’t supposed to pull the fish in. You say you know how to use the rod.....then you wouldn’t be trying to pull the fish in with the reel :)

 

The fish in holding was landed with a 10’ Arrra reod and 5000 sized reel. Landed it quickly and released it. Pulled it with the rod, reeled in the line with slack. I once landed  a 53” 3/4” monster with a 6’ a lightning rod and 1200 sized freshwater reel....did a lotta pulling with that rod 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can only get about...190 yards of 20lb powr pro on my Battle II 4000. That's with the spool filled to the inner diameter of the outer gold ring on the base of thee spool, which is the mark they put on there to show you how far to fill it. I have filled the reel so the gold ring was covered and get windknots. 

 

Question I have is whether the windknots could partly be caused by rod...i.e. the size and location of the first guide. 

 

But I have serious questions about whether the Battle 4000 can hold 180lbs of every kind of 30lb braid. I think it would have to be pretty thin braid, considering that my 20lb power pro issue.

 

 

Edited by Otshawytsha

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to register here in order to participate.

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.