Otshawytsha

Shooting Head Collapsing During the Shoot

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I have a couple of shooting heads I made. I am having trouble shooting them without the head collapsing as it unrolls. 

 

When I cast short distances, less than 30 feet say, of shooting line, the head will unroll as desired. Further than this here is what happens: the loop will unroll about halfway and  then the top part of the loop will become all squiggly. Sometimes the loop won't unroll. Other times it will kind of flop over on itself. Sometimes it will make it all the way, but still with the squiggly mess occuring.

 

Could I be overpowering the cast? I am using four feet of 50lb test butt material and three feet of 25lb test tippet? Would remove something of the thin end of the shooting head help?   

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Might be? Overpowering usually cause a Tailing Loop which is a wave in the fly leg of the line loop. Usually TL is a result of too abrupt acceleration in the beginning of the casting stroke and rod tip bends fast and rod tip dips below following line path and sends a wave to fly leg. Another is rod tip rise in the end of casting stroke and there are two possibilities. You might stop rod too high but it is rare. You might finish line haul too early which then straightens rod tip fast and there comes a wave.

 

Drifting before forward casting stroke prevents first possibility to TL and hauling very late the second possibility and it increase haul efficiency when it accelerates already fast line. Haul should not finish before rod has straightened.

 

Esa

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2 hours ago, Otshawytsha said:

I have a couple of shooting heads I made. I am having trouble shooting them without the head collapsing as it unrolls. 

 

When I cast short distances, less than 30 feet say, of shooting line, the head will unroll as desired. Further than this here is what happens: the loop will unroll about halfway and  then the top part of the loop will become all squiggly. Sometimes the loop won't unroll. Other times it will kind of flop over on itself. Sometimes it will make it all the way, but still with the squiggly mess occuring.

 

Could I be overpowering the cast? I am using four feet of 50lb test butt material and three feet of 25lb test tippet? Would remove something of the thin end of the shooting head help? 

 

Anything is possible during the cast, however usually if the head isn't at least 28-30 long the cast will dump on you...my 2 cents

Carl Blackledge

 

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Yes short line head limits casting distance because line loop unfurling ends sooner than longer line head does. Head taper has influence too and rear biased tapers cast longer because long front taper has lower kinetic energy/drag factor but it also reduce useable fly size and head wind performance.

 

Esa

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Maybe it's me but I feel like I am missing something, what is he shooting head made of and how long is it and what is it attached to.

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If we're talking Teeny type sinking shooting heads I do not like them. I can't false cast them and they tend to hinge on me where the weighted section meets the running line. Captain Ray of Castafly charters in Rhode Island introduced me to a uniform sink line by Wulff that can be false cast (once) and doesn't hinge. It's labeled SWT 9S. Works well on my 8wt and 9wt. Slices through the wind. My favorite line for Albacore.

Ted

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Thanks for responses. These are floating heads. 8wt rod. 30lb mono for running line. Casting 2/0 hooks flatwings. The heads are about 27 feet. 

 

I will try to pay attention to some of that stuff you said, Crunch. Trying to haul later. 

 

I have been trying to to make an abrupt downward motion with my forearm and while I can't do it that well it does seem to help a bit. 

 

I think I may be doing a cast with the rod tip somewhat high. 

 

Also, what I like to do with the cast is backcast and instead of drifting I'll begin the forward cast before the backcast is unrolled. Then I haul pretty hard and let it rip. I find this is easier on my arm than waiting for an extra beat on the backcast and the letting the head unroll fully before casting forward. 

 

I do see waves in my cast from the rod tip in the line when shooting the head, Crunch. So you think those are concentrating in the thinner line and multiplying and preventing the head from unrolling right?

 

 

 

 

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17 hours ago, Otshawytsha said:

I have a couple of shooting heads I made. 

BFD is right to ask what the shooting head is made of. You're casting with an 8wt rod, so you should have made these with ~30' of 10wt line. Is that the case? If you made them with 8wt line, they are not heavy enough to load the rod properly to operate a shooting head system.

 

Cheers,

Graeme

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Its the nature of shooting heads to dump like that as there is no smooth transfer of energy as the line unfolds. I found the only way to counter this is to over cast and then gradually stop the shooting line short which forces the head to unfold. Aint pretty but it works.

 

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What JRT says is true about how some shooting heads will dump. I remember way back when my very first shooting head was made from Lead core line and the running line was the Red Ambrosia which was a flat red mono. It would land in a heap but would always untangle and then tumble down the bottom of the the river bed nice and straight.

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2 hours ago, JRT said:

Its the nature of shooting heads to dump like that as there is no smooth transfer of energy as the line unfolds. I found the only way to counter this is to over cast and then gradually stop the shooting line short which forces the head to unfold. Aint pretty but it works.

 

Which is why I can't understand this fixation with ultra skinny and light and slippery mono running line. We don't get dumping with std longe belly wf lines.

So going full circle  we make ourselves a SH maybe with a head of 12 yards and hang on the back a std diameter running line as used on std wf lines.

Bingo we have a home made wf line. Why bother.

Or if you like carrying heads around then just fit std running line to your reel. Or how about cutting head off your wf line and sticking a loop on it.

Factory  heads tend to be too short.

You  may gather that I have very little time for SH. I think they suck big time for surf fly fishing.

 

colours firmly nailed to the mast.

 

Mike

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These heads were made from 11 weight floating lines. Sage lines I got on closeout to use for this purpose. 

 

I have had some success with doing the cast with enough speed and power that you can dip the rod tip in water or feather the running line to turn over the head. That works well although these waves in the head during the cast seem to be associated with serious lack of power. It's difficult, wihtout wind at my back, to really get that power going. 

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Most of my shorty heads dump on casts to...They definitely don't carry like my two hand beach line would...Add to this a heavy dumbbell or cone and it just gets worse...Your short casts still carry speed, then your long casts fizzle out and dumping happens..All this can change slightly depending of course on wind...

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