salvadore33

penn 704z bailess problem.

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55 posts in this topic

On 10/19/2016 at 11:18 AM, salvadore33 said:

Heya fellas

 

 

 

 

I have a 704z. I have the bailess kit replacing the bail. it has 30 lb Kast king braid spooled on it. Im getting a bunch of wind knots and almost always have my line wrap up around the bail arm when casting plugs under 1 1/2 oz. its a complete nightmare when throwing plugs.

 

 

 

 

 

But when I use it to throw bait and 4oz sinkers i use a spool of 65 lb power pro. and its an absolute dream.

 

 

 

 

 

Im kind of perplexed because i originally bought this reel to cast plugs and now im too scared to risk casting anything other than a bomber with it.

 

 

 

 

 

what am i doing wrong? should i just use mono when it comes to throwing plugs

 

 

 

 

 

also have noticed the handle and rotor cup begin to turn in the middle of casting

 

I'd bet your reel is untimed. You perfectly described the symptoms

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7 hours ago, pakalolo said:

That’s the one issue, salt impregnated braid reeks havoc on the roller. Cheap enough replacement. 

salt impregnated braid never caused a problem on my 706s over the years. VS; problems.........  why ti?

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This issue comes down to the lack of what I call a "deflector". Look at the 706. The cone in front of the roller is just that; keeps the line from catching the roller during the cast. I'm working on a bail plate with a built in deflector for the 704 and for the 710,using the 706 roller.

 

1274642-b7aad9f715ef088c13758ee6500007b9.jpg.e432f527cbbbc9f25290239cc5f3c500.jpg

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Posted (edited) · Report post

19 hours ago, cbchurch said:

This issue comes down to the lack of what I call a "deflector". Look at the 706. The cone in front of the roller is just that; keeps the line from catching the roller during the cast. I'm working on a bail plate with a built in deflector for the 704 and for the 710,using the 706 roller.

The p[problem with using 706 line roller is that it's too small and that is why they had to put a pin in the pickup arm they could have just made the line roller bigger, that what l did to overcome this problem l was capable of making line roller made arms and rollers, even used VS line rollers, the key when making line rollers is to duplicate the ID of there the line rides otherwise you have to move the arm up or down to get the right line lay.

l don't have access to a machine shop to make what l have made in the past you need a good lath and a milling machine.

So for those that want to tinker here are so pictures of that l made this could help you, arms l made from 

Alum. angles, line roller made from 316 SS bearing either Penn 706 or VS bearings.

 

The reel on the left is a Penn Frankinstine reel Penn 712 body 710 gears and 704 rotor w/MPU. and it's alive.

 

Also, 706 has VS clutch roller bearing that l installed along with a new hardened main gear shaft.

DSC02231.JPG

 

Penn 706 homemade line roller with a larger face then OEM roller use the rest of OEM parts to mount the roller.

Family pic 2006-08 152 - Copy.jpg

Family pic 2006-08 153.jpg

 

Homemade line rolled for Penn 704 using and using OEM line roller arm

DSC02804.JPG

DSC02806.JPG

 

Machining Penn 712 housing so the 704 rotor will fit

DSC02194.JPG

 

Penn 704 rotor fitted to  712 housing

DSC02197.JPG

 

Made VS style spool but like the reel it was never finished the reel did get painted 

 

5ef7f03903fec_Familypic2006-08244.jpg.cfa204839747ed45d4a497f1b5fc2ac0.jpg

 

VS clutch bearing5ef7f049122a9_Familypic2006-08242.jpg.55a21d90fe5c887c2110f953dc578bb2.jpg

 

Bearing installed, main gear with new hardened shaft

 

5ef7f040eaddb_Familypic2006-08243.jpg.54750df7d9c3fce94deae7ea8b8ea45e.jpg

Edited by LB

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I am a Penn collector, and I must say VERY nice  LB, nice work. I have some custom ones as well, i will have to dig em out. I am also about 3/4 way done on my polished 706, cant wait to finish...

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Lots of good info offered in this thread, here's my small addition.  It's really important to spool your reel carefully.  You want all the line below the 80 yrds you are regularly fishing to form a solid, tight,even base.  A phone book on the other side of the room and reeling line onto the spool doesn't cut it.  Improvise something with a power drill or wrap the line by hand if you have to.  You never actually get down to this line, so it's not something you have to do frequently.

 

If you feel the line on your spool and it's soft and spongy, it's going to throw loops that turn into wind knots.  This is actually an issue with any reel, but on a reel with a lot of play like a 704 it gets amplified.  One reason you have fewer problems when throwing more weight is that the line goes onto the spool tighter when you're retrieving.

 

Too much line on the spool is another thing i've seen frequently. 1/8 in. less than you think you need will work much better.

 

Edited by derangler

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All my line is put on with a drill l have cut down shafts to mount the reel spool on, have in the past increased the stroke on 704 and 706 to get rid of some of the hourglass look put line on with a hump in the center could be as much as a 1/4" higher in the center once you did your max cast it should stay almost flat from then on.

The 706 in post #35 line was put on the way l said and what you see was the way it reeled back in as after a couple of cast.

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Posted (edited) · Report post

12 hours ago, LB said:

The p[problem with using 706 line roller is that it's too small and that is why they had to put a pin in the pickup arm they could have just made the line roller bigger, that what l did to overcome this problem l was capable of making line roller made arms and rollers, even used VS line rollers, the key when making line rollers is to duplicate the ID of there the line rides otherwise you have to move the arm up or down to get the right line lay.

l don't have access to a machine shop to make what l have made in the past you need a good lath and a milling machine.

So for those that want to tinker here are so pictures of that l made this could help you, arms l made from 

Alum. angles, line roller made from 316 SS bearing either Penn 706 or VS bearings.

 

The reel on the left is a Penn Frankinstine reel Penn 712 body 710 gears and 704 rotor w/MPU. and it's alive.

Penn 706 homemade line roller with a larger face then OEM roller use the rest of OEM parts to mount the roller.

Family pic 2006-08 152 - Copy.jpg

Family pic 2006-08 153.jpg

 

Homemade line rolled for Penn 704 using and using OEM line roller arm

DSC02804.JPG

 

 

Machining Penn 712 housing so the 704 rotor will fit

 

 

Penn 704 rotor fitted to  712 housing

Interesting- bigger diameter outside for the roller..........I can see that working...... but, in reality, I wish I had access to a lathe and Bridgeport .......then I might try that route.....

Steve T

Edited by cbchurch

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For a Z, Fireline is the best line to use. 20# original Fireline:howdy:

And why use a Z with braid and a PUM to throw light stuff? Who does that and not expect a problem. C'mon guys let's do this thing we do with good sense 

Edited by jimmy z

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2 hours ago, jimmy z said:

For a Z, Fireline is the best line to use. 20# original Fireline:howdy:

And why use a Z with braid and a PUM to throw light stuff? Who does that and not expect a problem. C'mon guys let's do this thing we do with good sense 

my problem was not with a Z but with a 704, and with 15# Ande mono and one or two ounce plugs years ago. We are trying to minimize the limitations of these reels here. That seems like good sense to me.....

Edited by cbchurch

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12 mins ago, cbchurch said:

my problem was not with a Z but with a 704, and with 15# Ande mono and one or two ounce plugs years ago. We are trying to minimize the limitations of these reels here. That seems like good sense to me.....

Folks forget that the correct rod needs to be used too when throwing light stuff. Maybe it's not just the reel and line:howdy:

Edited by jimmy z

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10 mins ago, jimmy z said:

Folks forget that the correct rod needs to be used too when throwing light stuff. Maybe it's not just the reel and line:howdy:

not sure why you're referring to light stuff. We're talking about optimizing a great bunch of reels, the 1st gen. Spinfishers, for manual use here; no reason it should be limited to heavier lures etc.....

Edited by cbchurch

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28 mins ago, cbchurch said:

not sure why you're referring to light stuff. We're talking about optimizing a great bunch of reels, the 1st gen. Spinfishers, for manual use here; no reason it should be limited to heavier lures etc.....

Don't you look at the original post when you post on a thread? lol

It's about tossing light stuff with a Z and a PUM. And the guy had windknots. Carry on my friend. Do your thing:howdy:

 

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