salvadore33

penn 704z bailess problem.

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currently still has the spring, but it is locked under the bolt load with the washer in place.  Without the washer it will turn as is typical under the spring load.

Next iteration may remove the spring hole and use a pin to lock it out from moving.

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On my reel look at the second picture below the screw that holds the roller arm in place there is a roll pin that's pressed into the arm that goes into the spring slot, if l remember right l think l widened to slot to accommodate the pin. 

Your arm roller looks very good Yudi, hope it comes to life, it should sell.

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I've posted before about this but I guess I'm now an old curmudgeon because I didn't like MPU at all and went back to good old bailed.

first of all, in almost 35 years of fishing with this I have never snapped off a lure due to the bail closing.  I think early on I probably lost one or two because I FORGOT to open the bail!  That'll do it.

I had the MPU from Scotts Bait and Tackle.  Just like you are describing, the line was constantly catching on the pickup and I lost some lures because of that...ironically.

Also, I could not effectively extend my index finger and guide the line onto the roller with an ease...especially in the dark.  I hold my rod with the reel stem in between my index and middle finger.  If I hold it with the stem between my middle and ring finger, I get enough extension, but I really don't want to change how I hold the rod.

 

And yeah, the rotor turns when you cast.  Do yourself a favor, pack that thing with good grease.  It really doesn't make reeling any harder but it will prevent that rotor movement.  Plus if you dunk, you'll get some water intrusion for sure but you can't get the whole thing filled with water obviously.  So there are a few drops that get in there...and they just get emulsified into into the grease.  No biggie.  End of the season clean it all out and repack it.  The other benefit is that it really quiets the clicker.

 

Others have mentioned shimming the handle on the threaded shaft where it connects to the reel using SS washers.  If you futz with that, you can get the handle to be pointing toward the rod butt when the spool is all the way forward.

 

Regarding line and wind knots: I like Suffix 832.   I heard that these reels did not like PP so I avoided that.  Cannot make any fair assessment.  Tried Fireline.  Not too many wind knots but stuff seemed like dental floss.  I didn't' like it.  Suffix 832 seems pretty good.  Still get wind knots but I'm learning how to alleviate some of that.  Number one, make sure to "pull" on the line after line is on roller or bail snapped closed.  In the dark, learn to "feel" the rim of the spool and the drag knob for line loops...solve the problem immediately and often times I am able to "pick" out the knot.  If you feel or see a loop that's buried, make a long cast until you get that thing out of there.  Then do a nice controlled constant retrieve without twitches or bumps, to get the line back on there as well as you can.  Pencil poppers (unless you pinch the line)  and spooks can make the line lay really unevenly because when the line is being laid down, sometimes there's decent weight from the plug, sometimes there's not and the line is alternately put down fluffy or tight.  that's a recipe for wind knots in my experience.

Number two is to use heavier line...30 at least...40 is a bit better.  40 is a good compromise because it's definitely stiff enough to help you avoid windknots, and its easier to pick out than 20 for example, when you do get them.  And it's also pretty close to 50 or 60 that you might want for eels or big bucktails in a heavy current.  If you only have one spool for general plugging, 40 is nice I think.  I really don't care too much about getting that extra 10 yards.  Most of the time, for me, fish are not out at the outer limit of castability.

 

But, I still get windknots.  This isn't a high-tech Shimano, that's for sure.  On the other hand it has relatively few parts, is super easy to maintain and work on and parts will probably still be available, for next to nothing, after the nuclear holocaust.  And it takes a serious beating and the drag aint bad. Anything you do to it can be cleaned up and fixed at the truck the next morning. 

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I've posted before about this but I guess I'm now an old curmudgeon because I didn't like MPU at all and went back to good old bailed.

first of all, in almost 35 years of fishing with this I have never snapped off a lure due to the bail closing.  I think early on I probably lost one or two because I FORGOT to open the bail!  That'll do it.

I had the MPU from Scotts Bait and Tackle.  Just like you are describing, the line was constantly catching on the pickup and I lost some lures because of that...ironically.

Also, I could not effectively extend my index finger and guide the line onto the roller with an ease...especially in the dark.  I hold my rod with the reel stem in between my index and middle finger.  If I hold it with the stem between my middle and ring finger, I get enough extension, but I really don't want to change how I hold the rod.

 

And yeah, the rotor turns when you cast.  Do yourself a favor, pack that thing with good grease.  It really doesn't make reeling any harder but it will prevent that rotor movement.  Plus if you dunk, you'll get some water intrusion for sure but you can't get the whole thing filled with water obviously.  So there are a few drops that get in there...and they just get emulsified into into the grease.  No biggie.  End of the season clean it all out and repack it.  The other benefit is that it really quiets the clicker.

 

Others have mentioned shimming the handle on the threaded shaft where it connects to the reel using SS washers.  If you futz with that, you can get the handle to be pointing toward the rod butt when the spool is all the way forward.

 

Regarding line and wind knots: I like Suffix 832.   I heard that these reels did not like PP so I avoided that.  Cannot make any fair assessment.  Tried Fireline.  Not too many wind knots but stuff seemed like dental floss.  I didn't' like it.  Suffix 832 seems pretty good.  Still get wind knots but I'm learning how to alleviate some of that.  Number one, make sure to "pull" on the line after line is on roller or bail snapped closed.  In the dark, learn to "feel" the rim of the spool and the drag knob for line loops...solve the problem immediately and often times I am able to "pick" out the knot.  If you feel or see a loop that's buried, make a long cast until you get that thing out of there.  Then do a nice controlled constant retrieve without twitches or bumps, to get the line back on there as well as you can.  Pencil poppers (unless you pinch the line)  and spooks can make the line lay really unevenly because when the line is being laid down, sometimes there's decent weight from the plug, sometimes there's not and the line is alternately put down fluffy or tight.  that's a recipe for wind knots in my experience.

Number two is to use heavier line...30 at least...40 is a bit better.  40 is a good compromise because it's definitely stiff enough to help you avoid windknots, and its easier to pick out than 20 for example, when you do get them.  And it's also pretty close to 50 or 60 that you might want for eels or big bucktails in a heavy current.  If you only have one spool for general plugging, 40 is nice I think.  I really don't care too much about getting that extra 10 yards.  Most of the time, for me, fish are not out at the outer limit of castability.

 

But, I still get windknots.  This isn't a high-tech Shimano, that's for sure.  On the other hand it has relatively few parts, is super easy to maintain and work on and parts will probably still be available, for next to nothing, after the nuclear holocaust.  And it takes a serious beating and the drag aint bad. Anything you do to it can be cleaned up and fixed at the truck the next morning. 

Personally, I prefer MPU.  But, the whole bail snapping shut thing is about maintaining the reel.  The rotor brake is just rubber and it will wear and dry over time.  Replacing it once in a while will stop it from happening.  It shouldn't be the reason one goes MPU.

 

If you go MPU, grease packing helps stop the motion and protects the reel guts when it is dunked.  Shimming the handle so the spool is extended and the handle is pointing toward the butt when the pick up is past the 12:00 position also reduces the centrifugal effect that would make the handle turn.

 

With auto tripping bails and braid, "windknots" will occur eventually, you have to take care of managing that line onto the spool.

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On my reel look at the second picture below the screw that holds the roller arm in place there is a roll pin that's pressed into the arm that goes into the spring slot, if l remember right l think l widened to slot to accommodate the pin. 

Your arm roller looks very good Yudi, hope it comes to life, it should sell.

Thanks LB, but the credit goes to the guy making this, I'm just the test dummy.

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here is mine. also modified line roller. this is a prototype version that i am testing for a rod and reel service co. 304 stainless modified to accept the 706 roller.

 

Is your design made by bending a piece of flat stainless?

 

Or is it made from a stainless 90-degree angle?

Edited by lichum

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Is your design made by bending a piece of flat stainless?

 

Or is it made from a stainless 90-degree angle?

It is flat stainless that is bent

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I've posted before about this but I guess I'm now an old curmudgeon because I didn't like MPU at all and went back to good old bailed.

first of all, in almost 35 years of fishing with this I have never snapped off a lure due to the bail closing.  I think early on I probably lost one or two because I FORGOT to open the bail!  That'll do it.

I had the MPU from Scotts Bait and Tackle.  Just like you are describing, the line was constantly catching on the pickup and I lost some lures because of that...ironically.

Also, I could not effectively extend my index finger and guide the line onto the roller with an ease...especially in the dark.  I hold my rod with the reel stem in between my index and middle finger.  If I hold it with the stem between my middle and ring finger, I get enough extension, but I really don't want to change how I hold the rod.

 

And yeah, the rotor turns when you cast.  Do yourself a favor, pack that thing with good grease.  It really doesn't make reeling any harder but it will prevent that rotor movement.  Plus if you dunk, you'll get some water intrusion for sure but you can't get the whole thing filled with water obviously.  So there are a few drops that get in there...and they just get emulsified into into the grease.  No biggie.  End of the season clean it all out and repack it.  The other benefit is that it really quiets the clicker.

 

Others have mentioned shimming the handle on the threaded shaft where it connects to the reel using SS washers.  If you futz with that, you can get the handle to be pointing toward the rod butt when the spool is all the way forward.

 

Regarding line and wind knots: I like Suffix 832.   I heard that these reels did not like PP so I avoided that.  Cannot make any fair assessment.  Tried Fireline.  Not too many wind knots but stuff seemed like dental floss.  I didn't' like it.  Suffix 832 seems pretty good.  Still get wind knots but I'm learning how to alleviate some of that.  Number one, make sure to "pull" on the line after line is on roller or bail snapped closed.  In the dark, learn to "feel" the rim of the spool and the drag knob for line loops...solve the problem immediately and often times I am able to "pick" out the knot.  If you feel or see a loop that's buried, make a long cast until you get that thing out of there.  Then do a nice controlled constant retrieve without twitches or bumps, to get the line back on there as well as you can.  Pencil poppers (unless you pinch the line)  and spooks can make the line lay really unevenly because when the line is being laid down, sometimes there's decent weight from the plug, sometimes there's not and the line is alternately put down fluffy or tight.  that's a recipe for wind knots in my experience.

Number two is to use heavier line...30 at least...40 is a bit better.  40 is a good compromise because it's definitely stiff enough to help you avoid windknots, and its easier to pick out than 20 for example, when you do get them.  And it's also pretty close to 50 or 60 that you might want for eels or big bucktails in a heavy current.  If you only have one spool for general plugging, 40 is nice I think.  I really don't care too much about getting that extra 10 yards.  Most of the time, for me, fish are not out at the outer limit of castability.

 

But, I still get windknots.  This isn't a high-tech Shimano, that's for sure.  On the other hand it has relatively few parts, is super easy to maintain and work on and parts will probably still be available, for next to nothing, after the nuclear holocaust.  And it takes a serious beating and the drag aint bad. Anything you do to it can be cleaned up and fixed at the truck the next morning. 

Thank you for this ill definitely give these suggestions a try 

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All you need is 2 thin shims under the bail arm screw. This will allow the bail arm to tighten tight. Leave the spring out. This way you can adjust the bail arm up or down to adjust line lay.

Edited by handi2

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It's not the 704 arm, it is manufactured to be basically the same, but it is a little longer (to handle the diameter differences between rollers) and the roller recess and mechanism to lock the roller in are mimicking the 706 attachment.  I originally was looking for ways to do this and had conversations with LB.  Eventually I got to the point where I realized I would need a Bridgeport at a minimum to do this and started to do some research. 

 

I found a machinist and fisherman who thought the idea to do this was great.  So we started working together on this, at this point what you see is still the prototype.  The plan is to increase the 304 thickness some (notice the washer) which will remove the washer and increase strength and decrease any flex (not that there seems to be an issue).  It currently also has the pin hole for the spring, but that is unnecessary, the arm doesn't have to be attached to the spring and be able to move.  So a pin may be put in to lock it in place.  That small hole for the spring would also end up increasing cost for no good reason as it takes a long time to put that in.  Getting the angle of the bend still need some process improvement and locking for control.  I had to tweak this one to get it right.

 

The machining isn't trivial, but the machinist I'm working with made a CAD model and he has CNC machines.

 

In the end, this will be packaged with the locking mechanism for the other side of the reel and make for a much nicer MPU option for 704 owners.  I cannot get you more information about this here, but it will become available for sale at some point later this fall I believe.  The machinist is working up the costs soon, I don't have that information, and even if I did I cannot post that here.  I will inquire with TimS about how maybe I can let others know about this and who to contact. 

I'd be very interested.

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Posted (edited) · Report post

On 12/7/2016 at 9:46 PM, pakalolo said:

VS and be done with all the BS⚓️

But then you're stuck with a titanium roller, one of the worst metals for abrasion resistance......  old thread, I know, just wondering why Ti?

Edited by cbchurch

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