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High Plains Drifter

Rigging bait????

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fishfinder rig with a short leader of 12-15". pyramid sinker. make sure its heavy enough to hold bottem. 50 or 60 lb fluro gamgatsu octopus hook in 6/0 7/0 or 8/0 thats the rig i use in the surf. works and the short leader give smore csting distance.

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The fishfinder rig is the one where the sinker slides along the main line. Buy some sinker slides. Slide on on the line. Tie a barrel swivel. Then tie a nice leader with a hook to the other end of the swivel......voila fish finder rig!!

Good luck

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yup just what charleton said. its hard to explain what it looks like its a duolock snap etatched to a little sleeve that fits over th line ahead of the swivel and you atatch the snap to your weight. when a fish picks up the bait it can run and not feel the pressure of the weight. the line slides right threw the sleeve. this is realy effective if you have a baitrunner feature on your reel and when fishing for stripers. stripers are known to drop a bait because they feel the weight. go to any tackle shop and ask them for fish finder rigs or just the fish finder piece they'll know what your talking about.

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Hi,

 

If you are going to be casting weights in excess of 3oz then you will also need a casting piece as it is sometimes called or a shock leader. This line in mono is designed to take the stress of casting to avoid crack offs. The general rule of thumb is 10 lbs breaking strain of shock leader for every ounze cast. IE a shock leader strength of 60LB is required for casting 6 oz of lead. Now it is very important if this leader is to do it's job is to make it long enough so no strain of casting is transfered to your main running line. This means you should have at least four turns of shock leader on the reel spool then up the rod and down to your lead clip. The total length depends on how long you like your drop from the rod tip to the lead.. You can buy tapered shock leaders which are say 60 lb test for 20 feet and then taper to 15 test to make it easy to knot to your main line. For Shock leader knots you will have to do a search on this or other forums. It's not a hard knot to do but be warned it'is not very strong eaither.. This where you will break off 95% of the time when into a snag or a big fish beats you all ends up.

 

Alaways make sure that the line strength all the way through the leader to the lead clip is sufficient.

 

To not use a shock leader when fishing in company is dangerous and is fact not an opinion weather you use an overhead thump or a full bloodied pendulum cast.

 

You can consider wired break out leads by companies such as Breakaway as an alternative to fish finder rigs. But this rig the other Guys have explained so well is an excellent place to start.

 

I love lure fishing but never forget my roots in bait and still do it but not in certain parts of the USA where I would be strung up for it.

 

Cheers

 

MIke Oliver

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Aside from the fishfinder as above, there is the "hi-lo" rig, or the same thing with a single hook.....

 

Barrel swivel to about 4 feet of mono leader.....about 8"-12" from the swivel, tie a dropper loop.....another 12"-18", tie another dropper loop....another 12"-18", tie on a snap swivel......the whole thing ends up being about 36"-44" long, depending on how much space you leave between the knots.

 

Hooks go on the droppers, lead goes on the snap swivel. If you want only one hook, tie only one dropper loop and shorten the whole thing up.....

 

While some will vehemently disagree, if you are fishing the surf with heavy wave action, ~90% of the time the fishfinder rig doesn't work the way it is supposed to because the action of the waves, and/or your cast, will cause the main running line to wrap around the sleeve and prevent it from sliding on the main line like it is supposed to, which defeats the purpose in the first place.

 

I also find that unless you use a VERY short leader with a fishfinder, your casting distance is greatly reduced, and many times you get "helicoptering", both cutting down the casting distance, and whipping the bait off the hook, especially if you are using clams.

 

The hi-lo, is more streamlined, with the bait following the lead, so you don't have that whip around the sinker when you cast that sends the bait out as chum........ wink.gif

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Steve Bang on. You are absolutaly right in big surfs and lateral tides the force of water on the main line prevents it from running through the swivel, apart from the other problems you outlined. It effectivaly then becomes what we call this side of the pond a fixed paternoster what you call a hi low. If you team up your Hi Lo rig with a wired break out lead you get a self hooking rig. What happens is the fish takes the bait swims off, is pulled up short by the hook snood as the lead is fairly hard wired into the bottom and bingo mostly if your hooks are sharp fish on. The fish often breaks out the swivel wires making it easier to retreive and fight the fish.

Often the fish will swim towards you, break out the wires and you get the classic slack liner as the tension falls out of the line. Reel like mad to find the fish then strike hard.

 

Your Hi Lo rig is one of my favourites.

 

Cheers

 

Mike O

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AHHHHH! HAAAAA!

 

Steve and Mike - That is exactly what I wanted to know. In my own mind, I was having trouble seeing that a sliding type rig wouldn't frequently become tangled. Especially with the weight leading the hook leader on the cast. Also thought that lateral water pressure might bow the line sideways and prevent sliding.

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i am unfamiliar with the wire break out lead? is it like a bank sinker with wire stinking out to dig into the sand? i always found the top bottem rig causes bass to drop the bait because they feel the pressure of the weight. but in heavy surf i do move to a top bottem because the fish finder tangles and cuts down casting distance. other wise i stick with a fish finder on my baitrunner and give it more of a lob cast. most of my surf fishing is plugging now but i still bait fish every once in a while. what about a 3 way rig with a short leader? i have never tried it in the surf, ive always stuck with top bottems and fish finders.

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Here is a typical fish-finder rig, probably best used from a boat, the snaps can be different.

Fishfi.jpg

Here is a pic of an interestinly simple rig used on the Outer Banks I think.

BunkerHea.jpg

Lastly I just stumbled across a decent tutorial by google-ing "fish finder rig" and then clicking on the top link---BasicUsefulRigs---lots of drawings instead of pictures, probably better if you are on a dial-up connection than large sites.

BobT.

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Danny51

 

Ok I will do my best to describe a Breakaway lead. You might find a pic on a web site. The std lead is shaped like a tapered bomb. It has holes drilled into the lead for swivaling wires. The wires are held in tension by small roller beads which fit into little depressions on the lead. This lets the wires do their job of digging into mud or sandy bottoms but when you reel in the wires break out and are a whole lot easier to retrieve than std fixed wired leads which are a nightmare.

 

Now we have been having the argument for a long time over here about the merits and demerits of fixed paternosters verses what you Guys call the fish finder and we call the running ledger.

 

The running ledger if it indeed did run would mean less resistance to a taking fish, providing you give line to. For very short range say up to 30 yards in flat water the fishfinder can work very well in this regard. In heavy surfs it becomes less effective. In calm water I have had Bass drop the bait on fixed leads but rarly in a lively surf. What usually happens is the fish picks up the bait moves off and is jerked to a sharp stop by the wired lead, causing self hooking. At very long range say 100 yards plus it is next to impossible to strike a fish especially with mono and large weights, again this where the fixed rig scores well.

 

A typical fixed rig of mine is as folows.

 

3oz breakaway lead, lead clip then 28 inches of 50lb clear mono tied to a three way swivel. To the threeway is tied a hook snood of 30lb mono of 24 inches and a 5/0 hook. The shock leader is tied to the other eye of the swivel job done.

 

With firm baits you can cast this rig hard. I won't go into now but for extreme range fishing we clip down the hook snood using bait clips and release systems to preveny bait flap and wind damage.

 

I will try and find some pics to post which shows it so much better than words.

 

Regards

 

Mike O.

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Just because Im so Umm.... picture oriented haha.. here are some examples from the discussion thus far biggrin.gif

First off here is the brand "Breakaway" lead, there are also other brands, but they are all basically the same variation:

sinker.jpg

 

Ok, here is a ledger rig (HiLo rig) this example offers three hooks and T-swivels as opposed to the dropper loop recomendation but again, its the same concept:

ledgerrig.jpg

 

Here are some variations on the paternoster:

rig1.gif

 

Here is a variation of the running ledger/fish finder rig:

running_ledger.gif

and another of the same

conger.gif

 

A rig I've been courious about is the Pully rig? Mike, maybe you can explain the intention of the pull rig to me because it just dosent seem too practical to me??

Here is a pully for those who might be wondering

pulley20pennel.gif

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KConrad,

 

Heh thanks for providing the pics. They certainly are a whole lot better than words when trying to explain stuff like this.

Ok the pulley rig and the reason it was designed. It is basically a rig designed for winter Cod fishing over reasonably rough ground. The theory is that when you hook a fish the weight of the fish and the forces generated whilst playing it pull the lead up against the swivel. Hence the name pully rig as the swivel acts a a crude pulley.

 

With the lead pulled up tight to the swivel it will be less likey that the lead will snag the bottom whilst playing the fish as it is now above the fish.

 

In the pics you can see that bait clips have been incorperated to streamline the rig for long distance casting. Because the trace line is only passed through the swivel and not tied it does make for a weak point and the trace should be made of heavy mono to allow for this. Typically 60lb will be used.

The hooks release from the clips once the rig hits the water as slack is introduced into the trace.

 

This is not a trace I like much at all.

 

If you can find them there are sites that probably go into the whole gambit of Cod and beach traces that have originated from the UK. Some are so complicated and need so much junk to make them it beggars belief. But what you have to understand is that we have so few fish of any species that weigh more than a couple of pounds and that can be caught in any quantity that Anglers focus almost totally on tackle. This is fed by the Angling mags who seem to be in colusion with the Tackle Makers. We have several companies whose businesss are all about rig making components. Anglers get to beleive that ability to tie these darned complicated things will bring them success. The amazing thing is they still continue to beleive this year after year of poor results. It's all they have got to sustain them. It's never the miss managemnet of the fisheries or dearth of fish it must be the brand of line or pattern of hook that is to blame or will be their saviour. We have seriously lost the plot over here.

 

The truth is in my opinion the rig unless it is totaly crass will not prevent a hungry fish from taking the bait.

 

Look up a company called GEMINI. They make leads that come in component form and are colour coded and in a presentation box. They do rig parts to. Excellent product and a good company but it does illustrate what I am trying to say here.

 

We have turned into what one once famous Tackle dealer described us as "Beach Machanics"

 

You don't need any of this junk because you got fish. A fish finder or a Hi Lo depending on conditions will probably do very well in most shore surf casting situations.

 

Just one last point in the threee hook rig you have above if you really want a safe rig as in safe for other Anglers on the beach and not as in sacrificial leads then the trace test should be the same all the way through. Same rule 10lb of test for every 1oz of lead cast.. There are ways to set up th trace so you can cast it hard but get lead release if it snags.

 

If you are only lobbing the lead out then it would be ok as it is.

 

Sorry gone on a bit long. Getting worked up over my trip only 35 days and counting.

 

Regards

 

Mike Oliver

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Hey thanks Mike,

That did help me understand the logic behind the pulley...I guess it's like the fish finder; when it works, it works well haha...

 

No worries about going on long, I was cracking up 24.gif reading your post!

 

I'm happy to see a lot of the European/U.K. tackle and techniques making their way over here. I have been on a cat fishing forum recently and guy there is promoting "his" looper rig, and all the people there are just nuts about it. Well come to find out its just a hair rig for carp and barbel. Another fellow "heard of a great idea" for chumming.. use a pill bottle with holes drilled in it to hold your chum and some lead... humm... sounds like a feeder rig for ledgering to me rolleyes.gif I wonder how long until they realize you can combine the two wink.gif

 

I have seen the Gemini sinkers, and thought that was a bit much$$ for tackle that's most likely going to get lost on the bottom of the ocean haha.. (not that breakaway's leads are cheap)

 

Those where just some really quick pics, I was looking for better pics but I hope they helped Danny51 out a little ...

 

Oh I almost forgot! GOOD EYE, Mike! Yea, don't use a sacrificial sinker rig for beach casting haha... that's just trouble waiting to happen! I hadn't picked up on that until you mentioned it.

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