aquaholik

Line testing, ABS and KBS, a work in progress.

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On 10/20/2019 at 10:17 AM, scoobydoo said:

I've used it...no FG...I prefer the PR knot.

I use so many different lines and lures I don't want to find out the FG doesn't play nice with the leader material.  PR is guranteed 80% -100%  and will never randomly let go. 

 

I won't be buying any.

 

The color bleed is the worst I've ever experiences.   Think original red power pro...only harder to get off.

 

It's smooth and somewhat round..but after some use....nothing I haven't experienced from cheaper lines.

 

The Gosen 16 is a superior product if you want crazy high end luxury feel

 

Which lets be honest..is the only reason these lines exist...they offer absolutely zero on the water benefit at all whatsoever.

Hitena sent me a sample of the Silky and the Pureline, the Silky really isn't any smoother then most the 8 carrier braids available and the Pureline feels like a 4 strand braid which is weird since its a 12 strand, I'm gonna use the Silky for ice fishing since they only 

sent me 52 yards.

 

I will stick with my normal 8 strand :)

Edited by Yumeya

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On 10/10/2019 at 1:32 PM, scoobydoo said:

This is bull****.....

 

I'm still waiting for you to open up the Daiwa Certate LT and Exist LT to see the differences :)

 

Sorry off topic LOL

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I just notice that berkley  X9 30# in green is different  than the 30# white. Green is smaller diameter than white. anyone else notice this.

Edited by ChasingTales

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Sorry if this was mentioned, but has anyone tried the YGK Soul ss112 sinking braid? There's another version from YGK too I think...

 

Looking at 6 - 8lb sinking braids for deep finesse stuff. Any other brands out there besides YGK?

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On 8/27/2016 at 0:35 PM, aquaholik said:

The Cliff's note version of this thread:

 

The dropbox permalink below contains the latest data on line testing and will be updated with each new line test.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/z0rt7cbdccq2on7/Latest Braid Test.xlsx?dl=0

 

The data contained in the Excel file is the cooperation of the members of this forum and other fishing forums. Lines were sent to me and suggestions were made to make the results more useful.

 

The data contained are the line's labeled strength, the line's tested actual breaking strength, the line's mass(10ft of line is weighted then divided by 10 to get mass/ft), the line's strength to weight ratio(S/W), the line's derived diameter in inches and mm, as well as the knot strength of the line(mainly FG and PR knot strength).

 

Stop here and proceed no further if all you want are test results.

 

Testing the ABS(actual breaking strength) without taking a mass measurement would be useless since it does not give us a sense of the quality of the line. 10 lbs line that breaks at 30 lbs is not necessary the best 10 lbs line if the diameter is the same as most other brand's 20 lb test that breaks at 35 lbs.

 

With the help of Paulus just fishing and the members of this forum and the line tester creator who came up with the idea of measuring the mass instead of trying to pinpoint the diameter of a line that is generally flat when compress with a caliper, we were able to derive the line's diameter given its mass.

 

The basic idea is that Density = Mass/Volume. The density of Spectra and Dyneema is well known and published by Honeywell and it is 0.97 g/cm3. The density of water is 1 g/cm3 . This explains why all the lines I've tested float. So I sent lots of line to Paulus Just Fishing and he tested the  ABS and measured the line's diameter. Using the same exact lines, I measured their masses and was able to correlate a density range of .70 to 1.0 g/cm3. This was done at the time without realizing that the density of Spectra and Dyneema is  0.97 g/cm3. It was nice to know that Paulus measurement is accurate enough and our precision scale is precise enough to get a result that agrees with published data on Spectra and Dyneema.

 

Since we know that all braid are not spun the same way and that at the very best, no matter how tight it is weaved, the final density can not exceed 0.97 g/cm3. In fact, it is safe to assume an average of 0.85 g/cm3 to account for various different weaves among 4 strands and 8 strands line. Using that number yields a diameter that is within 6% of the MINIMUM diameter possible given the mass of the line and a maximum density of 0.97 g/cm3.

 

Now that we have that out of the way, diameter is easily derived by extracting the line's diameter from it's volume. The volume is the volume of a cylinder that is 10ft high and whose radius is 1/2 the line's diameter. This is what happen when we shape the line into a round object. It is a cylinder with tiny diameter. Excel makes it easy once all units are properly adjusted. You can look at our derived diameters and you will find that it comes within 10 percent of Paulus measurement.

 

Yes we did go to great length to validate our method since posting a line's actual strength without it's accompanying mass is pretty useless since it does not give us a sense of "quality" of that line. Mass translates to diameter and while we are accustomed to diameter affecting casting distance in spinning reel, we should easily convince ourselves that all things being equal, a 1/4 oz jig loaded by the bend of a fishing rod can only have so much energy to carry a mass of line so far. The heavier the line, the less distance we will achieve.

 

The line tester used below has two very large 4 inch PVC arbors. Testing have shown that by bypassing such large arbors and only using the 1/2 inch metal round rods reduces the ABS measurement. This has to do with the sharp bend of a small metal rod. For the ABS test, there is no knot and lines are simply wound around metal rods and PVC arbors. Only a rubber band is required to hold the line in place since the force on that part of the line is reduced greatly with 12 or more turn around each metal rod. A picture is worth a thousand word and if you dig thru the threads in here, you will see videos of tests done here.

 

5c4a501633f34_Resizedtester.jpg.3cff923717c069569abd3ac2b8b02563.jpg

 

20190124_180525.jpg.c263c1e30790c4c0cc407f34fbd3b939.jpg

 

For the knot test, the knot is placed between the large PVC arbors.

 

Bravo.  I honestly dont understand why these companies aren't as thorough.  Undoubtably, they are, but money makes the world go round; so I've heard...  My only question is... When I see you on the beach, what am I gonna see spooled up? Lol

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11 hours ago, packetinternetgroper said:

Bravo.  I honestly dont understand why these companies aren't as thorough.  Undoubtably, they are, but money makes the world go round; so I've heard...  My only question is... When I see you on the beach, what am I gonna see spooled up? Lol

One rod with 10 to 12lbs Nanofil, one with Fireline Crystal 10 lbs, 20 lbs Tracer Braid on a Spheros 5000 and a Loomis Pro Blue, another with 40lbs Tracer Braid. The 20 and 40 lbs is for offshore and nearshore reefs.

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On 12/10/2019 at 10:45 AM, aquaholik said:

One rod with 10 to 12lbs Nanofil, one with Fireline Crystal 10 lbs, 20 lbs Tracer Braid on a Spheros 5000 and a Loomis Pro Blue, another with 40lbs Tracer Braid. The 20 and 40 lbs is for offshore and nearshore reefs.

I'm thinking about trying some Nanofil for ice fishing, does it absorb much water?

Can you recommend what pound and what leader knot?

 

Thanks.

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I've read quit a bit of this thread mainly looking for a review of Berkley X9, handling the 10lb it felt like sewing thread. I was impressed with the line and thought I would research before buying. My current favorites are Suffix 832 (20lb) and Fireline (10lb Crystal) and they are used mainly for fluke fishing. I'm hopefully going to do some deep water fluking and X9 10 pound seemed likely to have minimal line resistance. Also curious about J braid X8 for the same application. I'm leaning toward Fireline 8 lb crystal, Fireline seems to be deep water jigging friendly. Any thoughts would be appreciated, thanks.

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3 hours ago, squidder 329 said:

I've read quit a bit of this thread mainly looking for a review of Berkley X9, handling the 10lb it felt like sewing thread. I was impressed with the line and thought I would research before buying. My current favorites are Suffix 832 (20lb) and Fireline (10lb Crystal) and they are used mainly for fluke fishing. I'm hopefully going to do some deep water fluking and X9 10 pound seemed likely to have minimal line resistance. Also curious about J braid X8 for the same application. I'm leaning toward Fireline 8 lb crystal, Fireline seems to be deep water jigging friendly. Any thoughts would be appreciated, thanks.

 

From ever since Power Pro original was released up until about 2005, I always thought the best braid should always be the softest, smoothest, and thinnest braid for a given application. And this still holds true for me but only in braid above 20lbs labeled strength. I tried original Fireline black in 8 and 10 lbs off and on from 1992 to 2005 in spinning and baitcasting reel and had mixed feeling. I always felt that the initial stiffness and flat characteristics impedes my casting distance and it's uni knot breaking strength is below other 8-10 lbs braid.

 

I tried just about every 10 lb braid out there and settled on 10 lbs Spiderwire Stealth since it's crazy strong(even worn out state). Gave Diawa Samurai braid a chance since it was so smooth and so thin and supposedly just as strong as the other braid with similar label strength. Of course that wasn't true and I fell for it's marketing gimmick. At this point(around 2008), all my knots are FG knots(Patrick Sebile broke down the traditional method of tying it to one leg at a time and demystify the knot and call it Sebile Knot). I gave Fireline Crystal 8 lbs a try and fished it hard for a year. I noticed that windknot is now virtually non existent. I went from 1 windknot/100 casts to 1/1000 casts and I tend to spool new line right to the lip. After I lose about 10-20 yds from retying leader, windknot is now non existent. I also notice that I get much less tip wrap with those stiffer wiry thin braid.

 

For the last 8 years, when it comes to 8-10 lbs braid, I use nothing but Fireline and Nanofil. It's just less troublesome, way more forgiving and very kids and guest friendly. If you are leaning toward Fireline 8 crystal for deep water jigging, go for it. It's tough, strong and has excellent FG knot strength and as thin a diameter as any 10 lbs braid. It may FEEL thicker since it's not as smooth and round and stiffer. But it is just as thin.

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1 hour ago, aquaholik said:

 

From ever since Power Pro original was released up until about 2005, I always thought the best braid should always be the softest, smoothest, and thinnest braid for a given application. And this still holds true for me but only in braid above 20lbs labeled strength. I tried original Fireline black in 8 and 10 lbs off and on from 1992 to 2005 in spinning and baitcasting reel and had mixed feeling. I always felt that the initial stiffness and flat characteristics impedes my casting distance and it's uni knot breaking strength is below other 8-10 lbs braid.

 

I tried just about every 10 lb braid out there and settled on 10 lbs Spiderwire Stealth since it's crazy strong(even worn out state). Gave Diawa Samurai braid a chance since it was so smooth and so thin and supposedly just as strong as the other braid with similar label strength. Of course that wasn't true and I fell for it's marketing gimmick. At this point(around 2008), all my knots are FG knots(Patrick Sebile broke down the traditional method of tying it to one leg at a time and demystify the knot and call it Sebile Knot). I gave Fireline Crystal 8 lbs a try and fished it hard for a year. I noticed that windknot is now virtually non existent. I went from 1 windknot/100 casts to 1/1000 casts and I tend to spool new line right to the lip. After I lose about 10-20 yds from retying leader, windknot is now non existent. I also notice that I get much less tip wrap with those stiffer wiry thin braid.

 

For the last 8 years, when it comes to 8-10 lbs braid, I use nothing but Fireline and Nanofil. It's just less troublesome, way more forgiving and very kids and guest friendly. If you are leaning toward Fireline 8 crystal for deep water jigging, go for it. It's tough, strong and has excellent FG knot strength and as thin a diameter as any 10 lbs braid. It may FEEL thicker since it's not as smooth and round and stiffer. But it is just as thin.

Thank you for so generously  taking your time and knowledge to help me out. I was getting sucked in to the gimmickry and  advertising as well, glad I read this thread. Fireline crystal is the deal :th:. TY

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On 8/27/2016 at 0:35 PM, aquaholik said:

The Cliff's note version of this thread:

 

The dropbox permalink below contains the latest data on line testing and will be updated with each new line test.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/z0rt7cbdccq2on7/Latest Braid Test.xlsx?dl=0

 

The data contained in the Excel file is the cooperation of the members of this forum and other fishing forums. Lines were sent to me and suggestions were made to make the results more useful.

 

The data contained are the line's labeled strength, the line's tested actual breaking strength, the line's mass(10ft of line is weighted then divided by 10 to get mass/ft), the line's strength to weight ratio(S/W), the line's derived diameter in inches and mm, as well as the knot strength of the line(mainly FG and PR knot strength).

 

Stop here and proceed no further if all you want are test results.

 

Testing the ABS(actual breaking strength) without taking a mass measurement would be useless since it does not give us a sense of the quality of the line. 10 lbs line that breaks at 30 lbs is not necessary the best 10 lbs line if the diameter is the same as most other brand's 20 lb test that breaks at 35 lbs.

 

With the help of Paulus just fishing and the members of this forum and the line tester creator who came up with the idea of measuring the mass instead of trying to pinpoint the diameter of a line that is generally flat when compress with a caliper, we were able to derive the line's diameter given its mass.

 

The basic idea is that Density = Mass/Volume. The density of Spectra and Dyneema is well known and published by Honeywell and it is 0.97 g/cm3. The density of water is 1 g/cm3 . This explains why all the lines I've tested float. So I sent lots of line to Paulus Just Fishing and he tested the  ABS and measured the line's diameter. Using the same exact lines, I measured their masses and was able to correlate a density range of .70 to 1.0 g/cm3. This was done at the time without realizing that the density of Spectra and Dyneema is  0.97 g/cm3. It was nice to know that Paulus measurement is accurate enough and our precision scale is precise enough to get a result that agrees with published data on Spectra and Dyneema.

 

Since we know that all braid are not spun the same way and that at the very best, no matter how tight it is weaved, the final density can not exceed 0.97 g/cm3. In fact, it is safe to assume an average of 0.85 g/cm3 to account for various different weaves among 4 strands and 8 strands line. Using that number yields a diameter that is within 6% of the MINIMUM diameter possible given the mass of the line and a maximum density of 0.97 g/cm3.

 

Now that we have that out of the way, diameter is easily derived by extracting the line's diameter from it's volume. The volume is the volume of a cylinder that is 10ft high and whose radius is 1/2 the line's diameter. This is what happen when we shape the line into a round object. It is a cylinder with tiny diameter. Excel makes it easy once all units are properly adjusted. You can look at our derived diameters and you will find that it comes within 10 percent of Paulus measurement.

 

Yes we did go to great length to validate our method since posting a line's actual strength without it's accompanying mass is pretty useless since it does not give us a sense of "quality" of that line. Mass translates to diameter and while we are accustomed to diameter affecting casting distance in spinning reel, we should easily convince ourselves that all things being equal, a 1/4 oz jig loaded by the bend of a fishing rod can only have so much energy to carry a mass of line so far. The heavier the line, the less distance we will achieve.

 

The line tester used below has two very large 4 inch PVC arbors. Testing have shown that by bypassing such large arbors and only using the 1/2 inch metal round rods reduces the ABS measurement. This has to do with the sharp bend of a small metal rod. For the ABS test, there is no knot and lines are simply wound around metal rods and PVC arbors. Only a rubber band is required to hold the line in place since the force on that part of the line is reduced greatly with 12 or more turn around each metal rod. A picture is worth a thousand word and if you dig thru the threads in here, you will see videos of tests done here.

 

5c4a501633f34_Resizedtester.jpg.3cff923717c069569abd3ac2b8b02563.jpg

 

20190124_180525.jpg.c263c1e30790c4c0cc407f34fbd3b939.jpg

 

For the knot test, the knot is placed between the large PVC arbors.

 

Hey Aquaholik,

 

First, as many have already done, I'd like to commend you on such thorough and useful work. I haven't paid much attention to this kind of stuff until recently while trying to choose an offshore line.

 

Now for my question...I understand the concept you use here, utilizing the mass of the line to determine strength. I am looking for an optimal combination of line diameter and strength, as I'm sure many are. There is quite a difference in actual/measured line diameter vs manufacturer's stated diameter. I've read (and am by no means an expert or even knowledgeable on this subject), but I have read that some lines when woven are not actually cylindrical in shape on cross section, but can take on a square shape, or even oval. This is certainly not a negative critique on your technique here, and I apologize if this has been covered already, but could this account for the differences between stated and actual line diameters as you calculate the diameter based on a cylindrical shape?

 

Thanks again for putting this together

 

 

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