aquaholik

Line testing, ABS and KBS, a work in progress.

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4 hours ago, aquaholik said:

Every major USA brand 10 lbs braid is stronger and thicker than Samurai Braid 20 lbs except for Gliss and Seaguar Smackdown. Those 3 lines are rated very close to ABS. No one has made a real breakthrough in S/D ratio and most 10 lbs line use quality spectra. Go with Gliss or Samurai or Smackdown for the thinnest line for their rated LABEL strength.

Samurai and Gliss can both claim the "thinnest 20 lbs braid" and they would be correct. Except they are no where near the strongest 20lbs braid. It's all marketing to distinguish themselves from the competition. Look at the chart for the best S/D ratio and decide if you want limp, stiff, coated, non-coated, etc.

Thanks a ton Aqua.

This has to be one of the most informative threads ever!

So helpful.

Thanks again.

JD

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16 hours ago, jcberg said:

To further the confusion, the ratings are usually completely different for the same line depending on where they're sold.

For example the 0.17mm diameter Berkley Fireline is rated for 8lb in the USA, however this is what it looks like over here:

Janlp3m.jpg

10.2kg is ~22.5lb, so apparently the EU version is 180% stronger than the US.

They're exactly the same product of course, but the ratings are very different.

An inexperienced fisherman may learn this the hard way when buying line for a new reel, since the lb/yd capacity rating almost always refers to US mono ratings.

Reels with no mm/M capacity rating are thankfully becoming very hard to find though.

Yeah for the USA 8lbs Fireline original, we tested it at 21 lbs ABS. For the Crystal and Ultra 8 in 8 lbs test, it comes in at 23-24 lbs. It is a very strong line and my favorite for constant repetitive casting and jigging since it is virtually windknot free. I want to really like the new Fireline Ultra 8 but it's FG knot strength is unexplicably low in the low 60%! Fireline Crystal in 8 and 10lbs has 80% FG knot strength.

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On 8/22/2019 at 9:52 AM, wwen said:

Hey Lee,

I have some 10 yd samples of 65 & 80lb Yozuri SuperBraid coming to your address. They are 8 strand like the 50lb. I’m very curious on how these lines compare to the exceptional lighter lb test Yozuri SuperBraids.

 

I’ll also send you some samples of 20lb Berkley Prospec metered to see how it compares to Fireline (but being 8 stranded) and 30lb JBraid metered.

 

Thanks,

Edward

 

Got the package this morning.

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16 hours ago, jcberg said:

To further the confusion, the ratings are usually completely different for the same line depending on where they're sold.

For example the 0.17mm diameter Berkley Fireline is rated for 8lb in the USA, however this is what it looks like over here:

Janlp3m.jpg

10.2kg is ~22.5lb, so apparently the EU version is 180% stronger than the US.

They're exactly the same product of course, but the ratings are very different.

An inexperienced fisherman may learn this the hard way when buying line for a new reel, since the lb/yd capacity rating almost always refers to US mono ratings.

Reels with no mm/M capacity rating are thankfully becoming very hard to find though.

What you have there is sold in the US as 10lb.

We have the same situation here.

Pretend the kg is not there, replace with lb and that's what the US market gets.

The 8.3kg one? Its the US 8lb.

Flat out ignore the dia as it is understated.

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Posted (edited) · Report post

6 hours ago, ZAFisher said:

What you have there is sold in the US as 10lb.

We have the same situation here.

Pretend the kg is not there, replace with lb and that's what the US market gets.

The 8.3kg one? Its the US 8lb.

Flat out ignore the dia as it is understated.

Wow that's even worse, I assumed the equivalent diameter lines would be the same. So US 0.20mm = EU 0.17mm :freak:

 

@aquaholik I like Fireline for the same reasons, plus it's often on sale, widely available, and lasts a long time.

Weird how the Ultra 8 isn't as good, but the popular non-fused 8 strand braid Sufix 832 seems to have weak FG knot strength as well, and the Daiwa J-braid and PP Super Slick seem to be all over the place.

Edited by jcberg

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8 hours ago, jcberg said:

Wow that's even worse, I assumed the equivalent diameter lines would be the same. So US 0.20mm = EU 0.17mm :freak:

 

@aquaholik I like Fireline for the same reasons, plus it's often on sale, widely available, and lasts a long time.

Weird how the Ultra 8 isn't as good, but the popular non-fused 8 strand braid Sufix 832 seems to have weak FG knot strength as well, and the Daiwa J-braid and PP Super Slick seem to be all over the place.

I should have checked my data that that I keep in a copy of Aqua's file I downloaded, rather than rely on my aging brain.

what you have is US market 8lb, not 10lb. My apologies. 0.17mm is still understated though, actual dia is 0.23mm.

 

Here's a bit of a laugh:

Whiplash 8 is available here; its very popular, with the rock and surf crowd.

The 50lb is labeled as having a dia of 0.18mm.

Must be made from unobtanium

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On 8/28/2019 at 11:37 AM, aquaholik said:

The 10 lbs PP super slick V2 will be thicker and stronger than the Samurai 15 lbs since the Samurai is accurately rated. You are comparing 24 lbs line(10 lbs PP super slick) to actual 15 lbs line like any of Daiwa Samurai.

So Power Pro Super Slick V2 10lb is advertised at .006. 

Samuri 15 lb is advertised at .007.

Are these manufacturers’ measurements inaccurate?

Has anyone accurately measured breaking strength of these?

I apologize in advance if this has been listed somewhere.

I don’t want to make another braid mistake.

Thanks in advance!

JD

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Posted (edited) · Report post

The very first page of this thread has the excel file you can download for reference. It has ABS, FG knot strength and derived diameter based on spectra's density and measured mass of the line. Manufacture diameter data are likely flatten braid cross section. 

 

You will also find scattered YouTube videos thru out this thread that show you the actual testings.

Edited by aquaholik

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11 mins ago, aquaholik said:

The very first page of this thread has the excel file you can download for reference. It has ABS, FG knot strength and derived diameter based on spectra's density and measured mass of the line. Manufacture diameter data are likely flatten braid cross section. 

 

You will also find scattered YouTube videos thru out this thread that show you the actual testings.

Thanks.

I refer to that often.

i don’t see Power Pro Super Slick V2 10lb or Samuri 15lb.

Am I missing it?

JD

 

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Posted (edited) · Report post

35 mins ago, jjdbike said:

Thanks.

I refer to that often.

i don’t see Power Pro Super Slick V2 10lb or Samuri 15lb.

Am I missing it?

JD

 

No. But I think Saltiga Surf and Samurai 20 lbs is there at .0095 and PP Super Slick V2 10 lbs probably doesn't differ from 10 lbs Suffix, PP, or J braid in diameter by much. You can assume .009-.010 inch depending on it's strength. Samurai rate their diameter more accurately also as you can see so I can almost guarantee that the 15 lbs Samurai is thinner than 10lbs PP SS V2 probably coming in at .0075 to .008. Look at the 20 lbs...stated .0087 inch, actual .0095 inch.

 

If you have both Samurai 15 lbs and PP SS V2 10 lbs side by side, I bet you can tell that the Samurai will be thinner(and not as strong---tie FG knot using the same section of mono to both braids and pull and I'll bet the Samurai will break first).

 

I did fished 18 lbs Samurai braid before but threw it away before I started line testing. FG knot strength after worn was about 12-13 lbs. No better than Gliss 18 lbs which is 3 times cheaper.

Edited by aquaholik

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2 hours ago, aquaholik said:

No. But I think Saltiga Surf and Samurai 20 lbs is there at .0095 and PP Super Slick V2 10 lbs probably doesn't differ from 10 lbs Suffix, PP, or J braid in diameter by much. You can assume .009-.010 inch depending on it's strength. Samurai rate their diameter more accurately also as you can see so I can almost guarantee that the 15 lbs Samurai is thinner than 10lbs PP SS V2 probably coming in at .0075 to .008. Look at the 20 lbs...stated .0087 inch, actual .0095 inch.

 

If you have both Samurai 15 lbs and PP SS V2 10 lbs side by side, I bet you can tell that the Samurai will be thinner(and not as strong---tie FG knot using the same section of mono to both braids and pull and I'll bet the Samurai will break first).

 

I did fished 18 lbs Samurai braid before but threw it away before I started line testing. FG knot strength after worn was about 12-13 lbs. No better than Gliss 18 lbs which is 3 times cheaper.

Thanks a lot!

I googled reviews for Samurai & they’re terrible.

Now I’ve hit a dead end.

This is for my light, distance casting set up. My reel maxes out at 14lb test. 

Made the fatal mistake of assuming that 10lb  Power Pro Super Slick V2 was 10lb. Now I find it’s over 20lb.

I thought I needed a little stronger line for when bigger fish are around. 

I bought a spare spool.  Now it turns out I can get away with lighter line for a tad more distance. 

Considering PP supper Slick 8lb.

What do you think? Open for your suggestions.

thanks in advance!

JD

 

 

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7 mins ago, jjdbike said:

Thanks a lot!

I googled reviews for Samurai & they’re terrible.

Now I’ve hit a dead end.

This is for my light, distance casting set up. My reel maxes out at 14lb test. 

Made the fatal mistake of assuming that 10lb  Power Pro Super Slick V2 was 10lb. Now I find it’s over 20lb.

I thought I needed a little stronger line for when bigger fish are around. 

I bought a spare spool.  Now it turns out I can get away with lighter line for a tad more distance. 

Considering PP supper Slick 8lb.

What do you think? Open for your suggestions.

thanks in advance!

JD

 

 

What species? Open water? What is your planned drag setting? For spinning reel, when you go to braid that has FG knot strength of 10-12 lbs, you get line that are VERY thin. For very thin line, I like the line to have a little bit of stiffness, especially if I'm casting all day with it and spool it to the max for maximum distance. If distance is not an issue, you can always slightly underspool line like Gliss 15 or 18 lbs and it will still cast a mile. It's very slick, very thin, and will hold FG knot even in mono as thin as 10 lbs.

If you are jigging all the time and don't want to worry about wind knots and tip wrap, go with Fireline 4-6lbs or Nanofil 6-8 lbs or the newer Fireline 8. They handle exceptionally well on spinning reel and are so trouble free that I spooled all my guest reels with it.

 

Samurai is not terrible. It's just that you expect it to break well above it's rating like other braids. I don't hate it. I just think it's stupidly expensive and really no better than J Braid in terms of handling and S/D ratio. Gliss is similar in ratings and much much cheaper and Gliss will cut thru deep water like a knife also since it's so thin.

Only problem with Gliss is it's near 100% FG knot strength. Very bad for long cast from the shoreline and breaking off midway when you are stuck on the bottom. Use lighter mono leader and the mono will break first and you won't have that problem.

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37 mins ago, aquaholik said:

What species? Open water? What is your planned drag setting? For spinning reel, when you go to braid that has FG knot strength of 10-12 lbs, you get line that are VERY thin. For very thin line, I like the line to have a little bit of stiffness, especially if I'm casting all day with it and spool it to the max for maximum distance. If distance is not an issue, you can always slightly underspool line like Gliss 15 or 18 lbs and it will still cast a mile. It's very slick, very thin, and will hold FG knot even in mono as thin as 10 lbs.

If you are jigging all the time and don't want to worry about wind knots and tip wrap, go with Fireline 4-6lbs or Nanofil 6-8 lbs or the newer Fireline 8. They handle exceptionally well on spinning reel and are so trouble free that I spooled all my guest reels with it.

 

Samurai is not terrible. It's just that you expect it to break well above it's rating like other braids. I don't hate it. I just think it's stupidly expensive and really no better than J Braid in terms of handling and S/D ratio. Gliss is similar in ratings and much much cheaper and Gliss will cut thru deep water like a knife also since it's so thin.

Only problem with Gliss is it's near 100% FG knot strength. Very bad for long cast from the shoreline and breaking off midway when you are stuck on the bottom. Use lighter mono leader and the mono will break first and you won't have that problem.

Thanks JD Aqua.

 

Casting from open beach on a Penn conflict 2 long cast 4000 spinning reel on a 10’ Suzuki rod rated for 1/2 - 2.

This is my light?weight, long  distance casting outfit. Target species are bonito, Spanish Macs & Albis.

My reel max drag is 14lbs. I’ll be tying FG knot to floro leader 10lb test.

This outfit won’t get a ton of use. Only when I need to launch a small lure over the bar.

I have two spools. One is already filled w/ Power Pro Super Slick V2 10lb. 

I got spare spool. Thinking I’ll spool it for lighter/thinner line for squeezing every last once out of cast. So many times, bones & Spanish were just out of casting distance. Long rod, w/deep bend cushions line nicely.

What would you advise?

JD

 

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Bones is fine with 10 lbs leader but Spanish Mackerel? If your lure is 1/2 oz or heavier then I recommend no less than Gliss 24 lbs(thinner than PP V2 SS 10 lbs). You can drop down to Gliss 18 lbs but I'll be careful hard casting 1/2 spoon or metal. If that was my situation, I would spool with 8lbs Fireline or 10lbs Nanofil for trouble free casting and strength. Since it's a PENN, definitely Fireline. Lol.

 

May I suggest a small white jig trail 6-8ft behind a heavy popping cork for spanish. Easier to keep in the strike zone and can still be work fast.

Edited by aquaholik

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15 hours ago, aquaholik said:

Bones is fine with 10 lbs leader but Spanish Mackerel? If your lure is 1/2 oz or heavier then I recommend no less than Gliss 24 lbs(thinner than PP V2 SS 10 lbs). You can drop down to Gliss 18 lbs but I'll be careful hard casting 1/2 spoon or metal. If that was my situation, I would spool with 8lbs Fireline or 10lbs Nanofil for trouble free casting and strength. Since it's a PENN, definitely Fireline. Lol.

 

May I suggest a small white jig trail 6-8ft behind a heavy popping cork for spanish. Easier to keep in the strike zone and can still be work fast.

Thanks Aqua,

The Spanish that come into our surf are very small.

So it seems spooling w Gliss, Samuari, 18 or even 24, I'll loose FG & casting strength, lose .001 - .003MM.

While I'm comfortable with Gliss 18 breaking strength (would you say 10 - 12 lbs???) while fighing a fish w/ 6 or 7 lbs of drag, I certanly don't want to snap off an epoxy jig launching into a cast to fish over the bar.

Fireline 8 seems similar in strength and MM to power pro SS V2.

It seems I'm not going to be able to loose diamiter and gain casting distance w/out flirting dangerously with breakoffs, even with light lures and light drag. I hate to think of a fish having to deal with a jig hanging of it's mouth.

Prolly not even worth even spooling up second spool. Would you agree?

I may send spool back to Penn.

On the other hand....What about fireline 6? Might that get me less MM in diameter than 10ln Super Slick, and still give me enough FG knot and casting strength for 6 or 7 lbs of drag? I do not see any test results for Fireline 6.

JD

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