CaryGreene

Metal, from Tins to Jigs to Casting Spoons- Everything You Need to Know

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Throwing Metal is pretty fun...

Back to NY FW, and my view of fishing flies/lures in different ways...you've already said it about metals...through the water column, then on/near the bottom, like a jig...they ARE jigs, with a swinging hook. It was at Cannonsville, fishing for smallmouths in the summer, where I learned to detect a strike, with a jig, on the drop. Before that, there were many undetected strikes. (that also applies to wire-line trolling for stripers).

Edited by patchyfog

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Hi Cary. Yes the Charlie Pasquale Tins were made in Brooklyn. Very similar to Charlie Graves. I got mine from an old timer that fished Montauk I fish most of the south Shore beaches from Robert Moses to breezy point. Some north Shore but mostly for porgies and black fish. Where are you located?

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Waxwings are molded metal jigs

That makes sense Mitchell. I thought I was looking at metal when my wax wing Bunker got chipped from the Bluefish. But, they use Transfer Foils in lures too, and plastics so I wasn't sure. Good to know though. I had to repaint it so I turned it into a white Wax Wing LOL.

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Back to NY FW, and my view of fishing flies/lures in different ways...you've already said it about metals...through the water column, then on/near the bottom, like a jig...they ARE jigs, with a swinging hook. It was at Cannonsville, fishing for smallmouths in the summer, where I learned to detect a strike, with a jig, on the drop. Before that, there were many undetected strikes. (that also applies to wire-line trolling for stripers).

Your points about the Water Column being accessed by Metals, which act like jigs, is very true. I left Ball Jigs off my list. Talk about a popular Metal. Also left Vertical jigs off the list (only because they have trouble in currents as strong as the Gut or the Race).

 

My first fish from shore on Metal was a large Laker from Lake Ontario who crushed a Silver and Green Little Cleo, out behind the old, abandoned Fitzgibbons Boiler Works Factory. That Laker made a little kid smile that day. I will never forget it.

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Hi Cary. Yes the Charlie Pasquale Tins were made in Brooklyn. Very similar to Charlie Graves. I got mine from an old timer that fished Montauk I fish most of the south Shore beaches from Robert Moses to breezy point. Some north Shore but mostly for porgies and black fish. Where are you located?

Ohh, nice piece of beach out there around Robert Moses. You can fish AND sight see, if you know what I mean! (Field 5) LOL

 

I'm located in NJ & Rhode Island Beached Again. B ack in the day I was the Fishing Manager for the Orvis Company & I ran the Greenvale srore. Fished LI hard & would D up buying a boat (1973 28' Bertram) and pretty much lived on that old gas guzzler. Ran Montauk, Shinnecock, Block..etc. Discovered every rock in the sound too! LOL

Edited by CaryGreene

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How would you fish a tin/metal (and what kind would you fish) in a rocky, fast-moving inlet like the Cape Cod canal?

Hi JMEI. We need Stewie for the best advice here. Calling Stewie and all Ditch Trolls, Come in Trolls, Mayday, Mayday Mayday. Repeat.

 

I can only tell you a few success stories on this subject. I would start with a Conventionalal Surf Rod and an open cage reel - a high Capacity Conventionalal. Plan on Drifting and Jigging.

 

As for the best Metal to use on the Canal, in my opinion I would use Cape Cod Canal Specials (Bullet Jigs with Hair Wing Bodies, or Paddle Tails.

 

Heavy Current = Need Weight. You also have to contend with absolutely ripping moving water in a volume and the likes of which don't occur in many places in the whole world. And for the record there are far worse places however the canal is a very unique area.

 

The water is generally moving real fast and the fish obviously can't just hang out in that kind of moving water without utilizing the structure that's available.

 

We see, as humans, side structure - in other words rocks become visible as the tide drops and we think oh maybe a fish is hiding behind that rock. Of course this can certainly happen and it does happen.

 

What we don't see is side structure below the tide line and also bottom structure Which is far more important depending on where you are in the canal (River bends not withstanding). You will hear some of the Catskill veterans like patchy fog and I talk about fishing big Rivers and how fishing in saltwater is exactly the same deal.

 

The bottom of the canal kind of looks like a mountain range there are Peaks and valleys and fish hold behind the peaks in the Valleys - if that makes any sense.

 

If you ever get to take a ride through the canal with a cool depth finder that has Side Imaging and bottom structure, you can save the data and transfer it to the maps like I did and then you know right where to post up. The guys at the barbecue didn't believe me that it was the first time I had fished the canal, way back when, but I've been around the block a few times and when you fish some new water that you've never fished before you need to be dialed-in.

 

Of course getting to post up where you want to and physically doing it may be two different things because there happens to be a lot of other guys who have the same idea on the canal.

 

The two baits I recommended kind of move the thread off topic and I do apologize for that folks, but to answer the question here's a couple photos and you'll notice something about these baits.

 

They each utilize the same concept to skin the cat. The bullet style head allows the bait to hold in current.

 

They also give you an added bonus they match the shape and silhouette of one of the most common Bait fish found in the Cape Cod Canal that being the Tinker mackerel.

 

post-40947-0-18730800-1459508716_thumb.jpgpost-40947-0-76400300-1459508733_thumb.jpg

 

What we've been talking so far about in this thread are Metals - but we needn't restrict our conversation.  Technically even though Lead is a metal these baits are Jigs not Metals - at least that's where we put them in the fishing department LOL.

 

The baits pictured also have another advantage in that the Hook point rides up. The Cape Cod Canal is one snarly place when you try to reel the bait in after it has drifted substantial distance. Hook Point Down = Even More Snags.

 

Of course there are some areas in the canal that are very conducive to bottom jigging because the substrate is actually Sandy and these areas happen to sit right below bottom structure mountain ranges.

 

If you fish an area like that not only will there be more large fish holding in times of current but you will also be far less apt to get hung up. This is where a bicycle comes into play because you do need to move around based on the current direction and tide.

 

 

What we have been discussing in this post are the kinds of metals that you typically see surf guys using.

 

I'm sure some of these metals have some crossover potential but even some of the most hardcore metals simply can't cut it when that current starts ripping.

 

One morning I caught a very nice striper around 42 pounds so I did my usual switch to a different tactic routine because that's what I do LOL, and I snapped on a point Jude 3 ounce Nautilus.

 

The wind was picking up but the tide was optimal which in the canal- meaning not moving or Slack! Normally you would use a pencil popper at this time.

 

I heaved the Nautilus out there and I got great distance and I started to scitter it on the surface. The fish were on a mix of Tinker mackerel and Atlantic herring the small 5-inch type. I figured the Nautilus would suffice. Within about 20 minutes I had a crowd around me because the Nautilus was killing fish so of course being unpredictable me I stuck with it rather than switching. Mainly because I love to fish metal of course.

 

Well my day completely shut off because the water started moving and I didn't bother adapting. Fair enough, the Nautilus kept getting literally turned inside out as I reeled it in, the siwash tail was getting hung up on the front of the tin. When you really have a fairly aerodynamic tin & it gets turned inside out, you start to respect the current and you start to realize why certain baits are better than others for this application. Fishermen have evolved and adapted to these conditions.

 

I will be curious to hear from the metal guys if they have found certain metals more effective than others when fishing the canal. And so let's wait for them to chime in on this subject.post-40947-0-49752300-1459511863.pngpost-40947-0-45881300-1459511904_thumb.jpegpost-40947-0-98553300-1459511934_thumb.jpg

Edited by CaryGreene

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Nice post, very helpful. Here is my question, one member had posted that he used his metals as a delivery device for a dressed hook. I've started getting into dressing my own hooks and wanted to know if there was any preference for this? Should it be bulky with a lot of hair or less so? Do people use hackles for this application? I know you don't want it to be so bulky that it cuts back on casting distance but some of the ones I got have barely any buck tail on them at all. I've got all your standard tying stuff, hackles, bucktails, flash and angel hair. Thanks guys

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Thanks Cary for sharing your thoughts, pictures and experience on fishing metals. Lots of sage advice in this thread. My favorite distance and catching metal is the silver 1 oz. Kastmaster with a white bucktail on a siwash hook. I fish the shallow parts of Chesapeake Bay from shore where the water is 4 - 7' deep. I mash down the barbs to. Sometimes I throw a Hopkins Shorty and let it drop and flutter. The rock fish like this technique. - Ricky

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Hi M! That is a great question! Hotels used on most surf tins are not bulky.

 

A very bulky tail like that on a properly tied Bucktail, like the ones made by Gary (Andrus) act as parachutes which allow the Bucktail to slowly drop and the pork rind flutters as this happens.

 

I'm sure in some cases and especially with diamond digging or maybe ball jigging a little beefier Bucktail might slow them down a little bit but they have a lot of weight so you typically tie a sparser tail. The reason for this is when you are bald eagle the tale action is what really catches the fish and your down on the bottom where there is no current so you don't need a big huge beefy tail. Meanwhile the beefy Bucktail with the fluttering pork rind wants to drop slowly and seductively bounce off the bottom raised back up nice and high and then fly her back down again so the beefy skirt allows it to do this.

 

I make my own Jigs and I type pretty heavy Bucktail skirts on them and then fit them with large Plastics, mainly paddle tails. Take I look into the box of Wonder and you'll see what I mean here.

 

post-40947-0-59788100-1459512580_thumb.jpegpost-40947-0-94304700-1459512612.jpegpost-40947-0-54141300-1459512628.jpeg

 

If I want to deliver Bucktail I'll deliver it with something like this. With a tin, a tail is mainly a way to elongate the body profile and also give a little action to the bait. So the tails are more typically sparse.

 

The hooks are also fairly heavy duty and they need to be because that is your only way to bring in a fish - you get that one hook.

 

To a fly fisherman the hook on the back of a tin might look a little heavy, but when you're trying to pull out of rocks if you get stuck or you get a big fish it's nice to have the heavy hook.

Edited by CaryGreene

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Nice post, very helpful. Here is my question, one member had posted that he used his metals as a delivery device for a dressed hook. I've started getting into dressing my own hooks and wanted to know if there was any preference for this? Should it be bulky with a lot of hair or less so? Do people use hackles for this application? I know you don't want it to be so bulky that it cuts back on casting distance but some of the ones I got have barely any buck tail on them at all. I've got all your standard tying stuff, hackles, bucktails, flash and angel hair. Thanks guys

Hi M, I believe I'm the one that stated that I use metal as a delivery device for a dressed hook. I personally prefer a lot of hair on my dressed hook. I know it cuts down a little bit on distance, but I don't mind that. I'm not very confident using a typical bucktail, so I've adapted my style of rod twitches and movements to fish,let's say a kastmaster, like most people fish a bucktail. It just feels much easier to me to keep the kastmaster exactly where I want it in the water column. Also one of my most productive techniques is to cast out a metal with a dressed hook let it sink almost to the bottom and then retrieve it with a slow sorta yo-yo pumping action. I hold my rod at a side angle to keep the lure as low as possible. 95% of the time a bass will hit it when the yo-yo action is going down. Hope I made myself clear. Anyway that's what works for me on sandy beaches.

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Thanks Cary for sharing your thoughts, pictures and experience on fishing metals. Lots of sage advice in this thread. My favorite distance and catching metal is the silver 1 oz. Kastmaster with a white bucktail on a siwash hook. I fish the shallow parts of Chesapeake Bay from shore where the water is 4 - 7' deep. I mash down the barbs to. Sometimes I throw a Hopkins Shorty and let it drop and flutter. The rock fish like this technique. - Ricky

Hi Tricky,

 

How are you! The KastMaster is such a cool lure. One night many years ago I was doing inventory at Cabela's at about 2 a.m. I was standing in the KastMaster isle. Literally thousands of acne products all hanging neatly on pegs not a person in the store except a few other retail rats like myself. I kept looking at that word Acme I kind of felt like I was in Road Runner episode and I was the Coyote.

 

What a time tested weapon though. Great story Rick, thanks for sharing.

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Hi M, I believe I'm the one that stated that I use metal as a delivery device for a dressed hook. I personally prefer a lot of hair on my dressed hook. I know it cuts down a little bit on distance, but I don't mind that. I'm not very confident using a typical bucktail, so I've adapted my style of rod twitches and movements to fish,let's say a kastmaster, like most people fish a bucktail. It just feels much easier to me to keep the kastmaster exactly where I want it in the water column. Also one of my most productive techniques is to cast out a metal with a dressed hook let it sink almost to the bottom and then retrieve it with a slow sorta yo-yo pumping action. I hold my rod at a side angle to keep the lure as low as possible. 95% of the time a bass will hit it when the yo-yo action is going down. Hope I made myself clear. Anyway that's what works for me on sandy beaches.

Very cool Rookee, so the Bucktail is slowing down the drop of a heavy Metal. A classic Tin achieves this by not being heavy, but that wouldn't be terrific for your application because you are using the weight of the heavy Metal to get down. Sounds very interesting. Hmmmm. 

 

I've been pondering your technique over a cup of cheap #$% coffee LOL. Thanks for giving me something to think over. I think I have something to add here. You're fishing beach frontage. Waves are a constant pain in the tucas and staying down beneath the surf is VERY important if you want to catch fish. 

 

A couple of guys I know from Angry Fish Videos here in Jersey are super good at little tricks to stay down. Summertime in Jersey on the shore ain't exactly a striper $&$T Show either. You have to work for fish. 

 

Your technique is brilliant. 

 

Normally dudes connect to a three way. They drop a small disc sinker (nice for sand if you want to bounce bottom) and then they run a nice dark back white belly teaser bucktail, kind of like a Deceiver that us Fly guys use, and then they hang a Gulp grub or paddle tail on the hook the way you would rig up a bucktail. 

 

The advantage to their method compared to a bucktail is that the weightless Deceiver type rig with the scented gulp bait really looks life like as it just hangs and flutters nicely hugging bottom. BAM=Fish.

 

Your method allows for similar success because you're set up is hanging out beneath the waves and all the surface turbulence and directional pull. Ideal for sandy bottom areas. Very nice!

Edited by CaryGreene

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Hi M, I believe I'm the one that stated that I use metal as a delivery device for a dressed hook. I personally prefer a lot of hair on my dressed hook. I know it cuts down a little bit on distance, but I don't mind that. I'm not very confident using a typical bucktail, so I've adapted my style of rod twitches and movements to fish,let's say a kastmaster, like most people fish a bucktail. It just feels much easier to me to keep the kastmaster exactly where I want it in the water column. Also one of my most productive techniques is to cast out a metal with a dressed hook let it sink almost to the bottom and then retrieve it with a slow sorta yo-yo pumping action. I hold my rod at a side angle to keep the lure as low as possible. 95% of the time a bass will hit it when the yo-yo action is going down. Hope I made myself clear. Anyway that's what works for me on sandy beaches.

 

Awesome, thanks for the advise. It sounds just like fishing a lip less crank to me. I've only got a couple tins right now (some Pt. Judes and A-OKs) so I'll tie a couple each way and see what works for me. I have been using open eye VMC 5/0 and 6/0 hooks for these so far, some of the stock ones on the A-OKs don't seem that rugged so I hope to have those replaced before this fishing starts. Funny, got an entire winter to get all this stuff done and I'm still playing catch up haha.

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