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Deep Diving Metal Lip Swimmers

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What is the action difference and when do you use each one..............between a "sloped"head vs the "curved sloped head(like a pikie) metal lipped swimmer. Have many of the flat sloped head and love them......just curious about the curved.............thanks.

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The "surf plugology" (google it) article on the web has some good metal lip stuff in it. I never considered the pikie a true subsurface plug. I only used them in small to medium sizes on the surface. You can drive them under but again I was always under the impression they were designed for surface work. I also think the curved sloped head as opposed to the flat sloped head gave it more roll and the rear would kick side to side more. Flat sloped head I always considered to be strictly a subsurface lure.

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Some pikies will dive very easily, some you cannot get below the surface.  I'm no plug builder but it seems like there are many more variables (weight, width, density, length, hook placement etc) than just head slope/concavity to dictate a plugs depth/action

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Posted (edited)

Perhaps more important than the slope of the head is the type of wood and the position of the line tie relative to the bottom of the plug.  This is the reason makers will tell you to never bend a lip, but rather bend the line tie up to cause the lure to dive deeper.  Conrads are a prime example.  They are generally constructed of dense woods such as maple or birch, and the lip slot sits above the centerline to put the line tie almost at center.  My pikies swim on or near the surface, and most of my slope heads don't swim more than a foot subsurface.  Comparing these lures to the round conrads I've used that dive 3-6' leads me to believe that the angle of the slope is less significant than the other elements I've mentioned as far as depth goes.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't deep diving and surface GRS pikies use the same "slope" configuration? 

Edited by awall630

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slant head metal lips, dive and swim deeper,slope heads and curve heads more  surface action, not total surface action, but somewhat higher in the water column - Butch N.

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Posted (edited)

Metal Lipped Plugs are a lot of fun to fish & different fisheries and water types demand some slight adjustments in terms of which plug you pick.post-40947-0-16756400-1453218461_thumb.jpg

 

The old Gibbs Danny style swimmers feature the lip in a fixed position a little lower than the center line of the front of the plug as the above photo illustrates. If you wanted a surface swimmer to swim and be able to hold a submerged position, even and flat water & still get a nice wide tail kick, a plug like this will do the trick.

 

post-40947-0-85802400-1453218634_thumb.jpg

 

More modern swimmers can be divided into two types - ones with the flat noses (similar to the old Gibbss plugs) - and ones with a more rounded Heads.

 

In my experience I've both styles of Swimmers will hold about a foot deep in the water as they are retrieved.

 

The rounded head designs have no problem getting under the surface, just like their flat nosed cousins, but they tend to have a faster wobble, whereas the flat nose swimmer has a much more deliberate action.

 

The rounded head design really moves a little tighter and faster which is not better or worse but just different. Certain bait fish don't really wobble tremendously back and forth and rounded head swimmets can be an excellent choice.

 

The flat head style swimmer is the plug you want to pick if you're looking for a nice slow, wounded bait fish presentation, the extreme back and forth action is great on a slow retrieve when you are searching the water. I tend to use the rounded front style swimmer when I am really imitating specific baitfish that I know are present.

 

These two styles of Metal Lipped Swimmers are ideal for fishing 5 to 10 feet deep water and they also work anytime in very deep water providing that the Predators are feeding in the upper portion of the water column.

 

post-40947-0-24261000-1453219213_thumb.jpg

 

The Pike is an excellent choice as a searching pattern and is similar to the flat nosed style Danny Swimmer, but instead of having a completely flat surface for the water to press against there is a notch cut into the head. This not does not make the plug run any deeper. It does however allow the plug to really start dancing when some current is present.

 

I fish Pikies a lot and they hold their position just like regular Metal Lips & the notch in the head utilizes current created by the tide, which speeds up the wobble, while still allowing the wobble to be nice and wide. To me I will use a Pikey on an outgoing tide to take full advantage of the current pushing against the classic notch in the nose of the plug.

 

Pikies really hold nicely in a little current and they kick back and forth like crazy. I will often use a Danny, not a Pikey, on an incoming or high tide, when I want to get under the surface and be able to stay there and swim slowly.

 

post-40947-0-55475600-1453219688_thumb.jpg

 

Slope Back Metal Lipped Swimmers will definitely run a little deeper, several feet in fact. The more current that is present the more the plug will dig in and dive but they will also run deeper even in flat water, deeper than the other two styles of Metal Lips will.

 

When I'm fishing a rip 10'+ deep and I'm certain I have some depth to work with, I almost always select a Slope Back Swimmer, usually I choose this plug over a Bottle Darter because the swimming action is a lot better. To frame this comment let's imagine we're fishing a big open beach & the tide is moving from high tide to a strong outgoing tide. There's a nice rapid fall off and we have at least 10' to 15' feet to work with. The right choice here is the Slope Back Swimmer.

 

Now let's suppose we're fishing the Cape Cod Canal and we're fishing the edge of a current line created by a large boulder and the tide is beginning to move. The Bottle Darter would be the right choice here. The Slope Back Swimmer will run a little too deep because the current will shove it under and as it swings into the slacker water it will be too deep and you will get hung up/into trouble. The Bottle Darter will be more effective because you can drif it out into the current as far as 100 yards or more, then dig it in & swim it most of the way back along the current line and you will have less of an issue in terms of getting down too deep. The bottled water will be able to swim along and hold its position in the current, yet when it swings into the slack water you can safely retrieve it and you will have much less of a chance of getting hung up though you will probably still have to deal with weeds getting stuck on it to some degree.

 

For Slope Head Swimmers, the rule of thumb is you want plenty of water depth to work with and the nice thing is you can swim deeper than the regular Danny's with the Slope Head.

 

 

 

 

 

post-40947-0-44896000-1453221040_thumb.jpg

 

Here is a picture of a classic Montauk Slope Head Metal Lip Swimmer that has been repeatedly clobbered over the years by big bass and blues. Hopefully I'm able to hand down to the next generation instead of having to retiread it, because this Plug is always in my plug bag. I actually can't imagine even going fishing without it.

Edited by CaryGreene

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Metal Lipped Plugs are a lot of fun to fish & different fisheries and water types demand some slight adjustments in terms of which plug you pick.attachicon.gif20160119_103126.jpg

 

The old Gibbs Danny style swimmers feature the lip in a fixed position a little lower than the center line of the front of the plug as the above photo illustrates. If you wanted a surface swimmer to swim and be able to hold a submerged position, even and flat water & still get a nice wide tail kick, a plug like this will do the trick.

 

attachicon.gif20160119_103702-1.jpg

 

More modern swimmers can be divided into two types - ones with the flat noses (similar to the old Gibbss plugs) - and ones with a more rounded Heads.

 

In my experience I've both styles of Swimmers will hold about a foot deep in the water as they are retrieved.

 

The rounded head designs have no problem getting under the surface, just like their flat nosed cousins, but they tend to have a faster wobble, whereas the flat nose swimmer has a much more deliberate action.

 

The rounded head design really moves a little tighter and faster which is not better or worse but just different. Certain bait fish don't really wobble tremendously back and forth and rounded head swimmets can be an excellent choice.

 

The flat head style swimmer is the plug you want to pick if you're looking for a nice slow, wounded bait fish presentation, the extreme back and forth action is great on a slow retrieve when you are searching the water. I tend to use the rounded front style swimmer when I am really imitating specific baitfish that I know are present.

 

These two styles of Metal Lipped Swimmers are ideal for fishing 5 to 10 feet deep water and they also work anytime in very deep water providing that the Predators are feeding in the upper portion of the water column.

 

attachicon.gif20160119_101733-1.jpg

 

The Pike is an excellent choice as a searching pattern and is similar to the flat nosed style Danny Swimmer, but instead of having a completely flat surface for the water to press against there is a notch cut into the head. This not does not make the plug run any deeper. It does however allow the plug to really start dancing when some current is present.

 

I fish Pikies a lot and they hold their position just like regular Metal Lips & the notch in the head utilizes current created by the tide, which speeds up the wobble, while still allowing the wobble to be nice and wide. To me I will use a Pikey on an outgoing tide to take full advantage of the current pushing against the classic notch in the nose of the plug.

 

Pikies really hold nicely in a little current and they kick back and forth like crazy. I will often use a Danny, not a Pikey, on an incoming or high tide, when I want to get under the surface and be able to stay there and swim slowly.

 

attachicon.gif20160119_102324-1.jpg

 

Slope Back Metal Lipped Swimmers will definitely run a little deeper, several feet in fact. The more current that is present the more the plug will dig in and dive but they will also run deeper even in flat water, deeper than the other two styles of Metal Lips will.

 

When I'm fishing a rip 10'+ deep and I'm certain I have some depth to work with, I almost always select a Slope Back Swimmer, usually I choose this plug over a Bottle Darter because the swimming action is a lot better. To frame this comment let's imagine we're fishing a big open beach & the tide is moving from high tide to a strong outgoing tide. There's a nice rapid fall off and we have at least 10' to 15' feet to work with. The right choice here is the Slope Back Swimmer.

 

Now let's suppose we're fishing the Cape Cod Canal and we're fishing the edge of a current line created by a large boulder and the tide is beginning to move. The Bottle Darter would be the right choice here. The Slope Back Swimmer will run a little too deep because the current will shove it under and as it swings into the slacker water it will be too deep and you will get hung up/into trouble. The Bottle Darter will be more effective because you can drif it out into the current as far as 100 yards or more, then dig it in & swim it most of the way back along the current line and you will have less of an issue in terms of getting down too deep. The bottled water will be able to swim along and hold its position in the current, yet when it swings into the slack water you can safely retrieve it and you will have much less of a chance of getting hung up though you will probably still have to deal with weeds getting stuck on it to some degree.

 

For Slope Head Swimmers, the rule of thumb is you want plenty of water depth to work with and the nice thing is you can swim deeper than the regular Danny's with the Slope Head.

 

 

 

 

 

attachicon.gif20160119_103925.jpg

 

Here is a picture of a classic Montauk Slope Head Metal Lip Swimmer that has been repeatedly clobbered over the years by big bass and blues. Hopefully I'm able to hand down to the next generation instead of having to retiread it, because this Plug is always in my plug bag. I actually can't imagine even going fishing without it.

Thanks Cary.  I really enjoy reading your posts.  I know it must be a lot of work, but they are definitely appreciated!! 

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Posted (edited)

My pleasure Fallfish & thank you very much for saying that. It's not work at all when wonderful people like you and the rest of this great community can read and learn not to mention I always learn something from every single post I get involved in.

 

post-40947-0-60822300-1453225774_thumb.jpg

 

Also when you're thinking about Metal Lipped Swimmers as a type of plug don't forget the micro baits such as Micro Swimmers and...

post-40947-0-54267900-1453225757_thumb.jpg

 

...Micro Pikies

Edited by CaryGreene

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CG,

Can't thank you enough for sharing your insights, since I am just getting into these styles of plugs.

 

If you're near the ditch or SE Mass, I'll buy the coffee or beer!

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Hi South Coast Phil, I'm glad you find this information informative I'm out of New Jersey at the moment but I'm up in your neck of the woods quite a bit also fish Rhode Island a ton! Hopefully we'll get to have a drink together at some point just don't laugh at my plug bag for being too big! LOL

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why has the Conrad lost popularity?

You mean the old 3 hook do it yourself Conrad kits? They are very similar to a Danny in terms of body style they are identical.

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You mean the old 3 hook do it yourself Conrad kits? They are very similar to a Danny in terms of body style they are identical.

was a modified atom 40, not a danny, as I understand it....

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