albacized

Are the non sealed, cork drag reels...

Rate this topic

107 posts in this topic

That’s one good thing  about owning a Medalist.  Everyone knows what’s inside.   And can afford one if they want one 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 mins ago, JohnP said:

 

Yeah 

 

you have to buy it to see what’s in it

 

heck I’d settle even running into guys frequently enough who got em 

Where have we seen that before...let me see.....

 

Oh yeah...Nancy Pelosi ...."you have to pass it to know what's in it"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

John

 

love your marketing babble BS post.

 

Sadly some guys actually believe this crap.

 

I have never ever subscribed to the notion that a 100% sealed drag is just that.

 

To get almost 100% sealed means a hermetic seal which is glass to glass glass to metal and metal to metal.

That can’t work in a fishing reel design.

Sealed drag fly reel fine as some will see less sand and water than others and seals may do their job ok. For reels that will get seriously wet ,wave washed and well dunked. Sealed drag is good still providing it is easy to open up the reel once back at  base and clean it.

It takes just a heartbeat for rust and corrosion to start if reels are neglected even for short periods of time.

 

I run unsealed reels as well and they are fine to. Just need a bit of extra care.

 

My unsealed are a bit tatty inside but function ok and are at least ten years old.

 

Nothing lasts for ever in salt water. Fish it care for it and except the life is finite.

 

mike

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Helmholtz said:

Mako  how the reel looks inside.

 

So why all these secrets?

 

 

   We have no pictures maybe because it can't be opened at home, without some device, like Charlton?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Helmholtz said:

@ F1,

 

You obviously like the Mako reels and I read in several Threads that you obviously know the guys there.

I can understand that you promote them, Im mean who wouldnt.

 

But you never give any details about how the reel looks inside. I dont know a reel out there where one cannot get the details of the drag assembly if he searches hard enough.

Not so for the Mako. But oviously we have quite knowledgable people here in this forum that would like to understand the myth before they spend more than 1k.

As mentioned several times here, sealed reels wont stay sealed forever, you can say whatever you want. That wont be different for the Makos. And honestly I heard rumors of an Oring sealing in the Mako and of wet parts inside.

Just because theyre expensive and nobody knows how they look inside, that doesnt makes them more sealed.

 

And if we say Hatch has 100 times more reels out there than Mako, you also have a 100 times more failures. Because no system is perfect. Not even the Mako. But people that spend 1500USD for a reel are probably not the people who post in a Forum. Some, maybe. But that reduces the open sources for honest Mako reviews to just a hand full compared to thousands that fish for example a Hatch.

 

So why all these secrets? Post some pics and then we can start over the discussion again.

 

Thanks.

Helmholtz,

 

In an old SOL thread someone shared a few photos of an original Charlton.    I'm posting again for your review but there's really not enough here to understand the sealing.

 

HT

 

charl1.jpg.503ae37dbcdea4c3f4dce1a5b01588f2.jpgcharl2.jpg.f65bd82aba36964f27dd1dd72239afa2.jpgCharl3.jpg.bf0b7ef68e438ba3924397546f8f4e72.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Best big game fly reel for the Bucks Penn Int'l 4-5 size !  Caught many billfish especially many Striper to 150# + W/O issue !

i fished right along side Abels and other hi end reels with no issues ! I started with Seamasters in the 70's and some Fin - Nor wedding cakes , they were good reels but not in class of the Penns 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Mike Oliver said:

John

 

love your marketing babble BS post.

 

Sadly some guys actually believe this crap.

 

I have never ever subscribed to the notion that a 100% sealed drag is just that.

 

To get almost 100% sealed means a hermetic seal which is glass to glass glass to metal and metal to metal.

That can’t work in a fishing reel design.

Sealed drag fly reel fine as some will see less sand and water than others and seals may do their job ok. For reels that will get seriously wet ,wave washed and well dunked. Sealed drag is good still providing it is easy to open up the reel once back at  base and clean it.

It takes just a heartbeat for rust and corrosion to start if reels are neglected even for short periods of time.

 

I run unsealed reels as well and they are fine to. Just need a bit of extra care.

 

My unsealed are a bit tatty inside but function ok and are at least ten years old.

 

Nothing lasts for ever in salt water. Fish it care for it and except the life is finite.

 

mike

 

 

Now you are getting into semantics of what constitutes a 100% sealed reel. What manufacturers call a sealed drag is absolutely a sealed drag for 99.99% of the fishing population. Even if you fished up to your neck with the reel underwater the entire time, i doubt you would subject it to the pressure needed to push water past the seals. Much like a 100m rated 'waterproof' watch vs. an ISO 6425 dive watch, the general public will experience the same level of sealing performance from each as they are not generally taking it past a few meters of depth.. 

 

I would not want to open my sealed reel and clean it after every outing. That's probably an incredibly quick way to compromise that seal. 

 

FWIW i fish an original Islander and a Hatch so I am not particularly subjective toward sealed reels. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,

 

The open Charlton 8500 .8 on the pictures is my reel. As far as I know they can only be opened by Charlton (now owned by the Mayfly group, also the owner of Abel and Ross) and Alex Kaplun in the Ukraine who made tools himself. I asked him to take some pics when he opened my reel as I was curious what is inside. I don't really understand how it works or how it is sealed but I think grease is an important part of the sealing. The problem is the teflon grease used in the Charltons dries out in 10-20 years and it turns to powder. My reel had three issues: the drag got sticky because of the powder inside the reel, it was badly assembled by the factory (had a huge play between the spool and the cage) and one of the ball bearings on the spindle was frozen because it was submerged in saltwater and not properly cleaned/lubricated after use. This last problem has nothing to do with the sealing, the ball bearings are on the outside of the reel cage. According to the manual they have to be submerged in engine oil periodically to keep them lubricated. To be fair I bought this reel used and the previous owner must have fished it hard with zero maintenance. 

 

IF the grease is an important part of the sealing (I am not sure about this!!) and it dries out eventually it can cause problems. 

 

I own three Charltons and two Makos. I adore them as they are beautifully engineered, really above anything else, but the Tibor Signatures and some Abels come very-very close. I bought the Makos brand new directly from the factory. I had to send my 9500 back twice, because it was too tight, I really had to work hard to wind it. Now it is a bit better but there is still much more resistance than by the 9550. I learned to live with it as I caught some nice fish with the reel. Sending it twice to the US and back made it probably the most expensive reel I have ever owned though...  If you carefully search on the web you will find descriptions of issues with the Makos. So they are not perfect for sure.

 

I also own two Charlton 8450s, the second most beautiful reel ever made (for me at least). One is brand new, it works perfectly of course. The other was used by the previous owner but it has barely any visible marks so it was not abused. Still, the drags work very differently. On the used one I can turn the drag wheel 1/4 of its full way until it starts to work, on the new one it start to increase the drag immediately. Are the drag washers worn on the used one? Or is it just product deviation? Who knows. Also, on the used one the thin rubber sealing around the drag knob peals off. I don't know if it is just cosmetic or the rubber is really there to seal the internal parts. If it is sealing, sooner or later it will come off every reel which is used. I have a couple of spare spools for these reels too and one of the spools does not work perfectly. The release button was completely stuck when I got it. I managed to make it usable, but it is not perfect. I think the spring inside is not where it should be but as I can not open it without a special tool I can not repair it. I think it would be a 3 second job.

 

There was a Charlton 8500 1.2 for sale in a shop with a broken spool release mechanism. The spool couldn't be removed. It worked flawlessly otherwise but if the new owner will get some monofilament inside the reel at some point... 

 

So as you can see my limited experience with Charltons and Makos taught me one thing: never go to a remote destination without a reel that is field serviceable. I will definitely buy a Charlton 8550C with a bonefish spool at one point in my life (I think that is the most beautiful reel ever made), but I trust a Tibor or an Abel much much more. I think Jack Charlton designed great (the best?) reels, their only major problem is that they are like a black box. Great, until everything works but if something happens you are done. Therefore I think right now the best designed reel is the Tibor Signature: it is sealed, but only by using a coin I can always check after a trip wether the sealing has failed or not. 

 

I wouldn't worry about Mako disappearing. They are produced by Mark Vorobik's company, Edco. They machine all kinds of stuff according to their website, Mako reels are just a marginal part of their business. Tibor's are made by the Ted Juracsik Tool and Die Company and I would be surprised if reel sales would be more than 20% of their business, so it is not the fly fishing market which decides wether they survive or not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Capefish..

You have way more faith in manufacturers claims than some of us on this thread.

No where close to semantics unfortunately. It is very difficult when there are revolving parts to get a full seal. 

Not sure where you are able to get the 99.9%  figure of users of sealed drag reels who don’t get issues on the basis that the maker declares them fully sealed .

Agree water  pressure is not an issue as most of us don’t fish the reel and turn it underwater. The issues are water getting past simple O rings. Reels get splashed and wave washed.

It is interesting that I have never yet seen a reel maker declare an actual sealing standard such as a NEMA or IP rating. The claim is 100 % sealed. What does that actually mean. It could mean a reel that has seals on all points of potential water ingress but it does not mean that the reel is water tight  or sand tight.

Be interesting to get some feedback from guys who fish fully sealed drags and especially guys who fish from the shore as to how effective those seals have been for them.

There should not be an issue in taking down a reel quite often. In any case if it is O rings these are as cheap as chips and easily available. Fly reels are not complex bits of kit.

I don’t take my reels down after every trip but on extended fishing trips which can be for a week to three weeks I do take then apart after about three days of heavy use. My reels do get very wet .

One usage and then for reel to be stored away for a while can spell corrosion. Not every time. But I am not going to risk costly high  end reel sealed by not making sure all is well.

We have had quite a few discussions on sealed reels in the past and I am sure some guys have posted pics of corroded interiors on reels that are 100% sealed.

For those that wish to interpret the statement full sealed as water tight  that is their decision. My experience tells me otherwise. But of course I can’t fish every reel that is made and it could be that most of the others are totally fine.

 

Mike

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to register here in order to participate.

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.