albacized

Are the non sealed, cork drag reels...

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1 hour ago, JohnP said:

 

 

Yes i understand charlton may qualify but a charlton is not a reel that’s  really offered for sale. And thus I don’t think enough people are out there in the field putting them through the paces. 

 

But even a charlton I just don’t know. I’m getting old I guess. Im so old I still believe parts get old and wear out. And all things coming in constant contact with salt water need periodic inspection and maintenance. And if they are heavily used, all the more reason. I still think like that. Ain’t it crazy?

 

I do have reels that are so called sealed and maintencance free. But ain’t it funny those companies still have a repairs Department ?

 

 

That is why I said "Charlton built," the Mako tells are Charlton built and still in production. 

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52 mins ago, formula1 said:

That is why I said "Charlton built," the Mako tells are Charlton built and still in production. 

 

Well the other way to look at it is that the vast vast vast majority of owners don’t fish their reels that hard and they don’t see frequent dunking underwater Many not at all

 

I would better take my chances with a drag system that can get packed in blue marine grease at least 1-2 times per year 

 

ive Done that with a few of my reels and some have 25 years use on them 

 

that’s the standard for parts that get dunked and then be are expected to spin at hight speeds under stress 

 

(id buy a mako tomorrow but the company is small and I just don’t don’t know if they will be around  god forbid I need repair )

Edited by JohnP

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26 mins ago, JohnP said:

 

I would better take my chances with a drag system that can get packed in blue marine grease at least 1-2 times per year 

 

 

You would? over a Mako?  good luck with that LOL!

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42 mins ago, Cpalms said:

You would? over a Mako?  good luck with that LOL!

 

I have an Islander cork drag reel that’s been in service for wetsuiting since 1995

 

the innards are caked  in blue marine geese   Regressed annually 

 

the cork itself gets a few drops  of neets foot oil now in then

 

works pretty much the same as it has in 1995. I’ve reeled in fish with the reel underwater

 

for years 

 

where did I screw up where I need the mako ?

 

 

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32 mins ago, JohnP said:

 

I have an Islander cork drag reel that’s been in service for wetsuiting since 1995

 

the innards are caked  in blue marine geese   Regressed annually 

 

the cork itself gets a few drops  of neets foot oil now in then

 

works pretty much the same as it has in 1995. I’ve reeled in fish with the reel underwater

 

for years 

 

where did I screw up where I need the mako ?

 

 

Nobody "needs" a Mako - but in certain situations a 99.99999999% sealed reel with a bulletproof drag is demonstrably superior to a grease packed reel from 20+ years ago.  Plenty of guys like to get nostalgic and fish with junky fiberglass rods, Medalist reels, etc and that's all well and good but to say that gear innovation has not surpassed grease packed reels simply a flight of fancy.  It's akin to using a 20+ cellphone, I'm sure an 20+ year old cell phone works just fine but other than for the sake of nostalgia or irony why use one?

 

 

 

Edited by Cpalms

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13 mins ago, Cpalms said:

Nobody "needs" a Mako - but in certain situations a 99.99999999% sealed reel with a bulletproof drag is demonstrably superior to a grease packed reel from 20+ years ago.  Plenty of guys like to get nostalgic and fish with junky fiberglass rods, Medalist reels, etc and that's all well and good but to say that gear innovation has not surpassed grease packed reels simply a flight of fancy.  It's akin to using a 20+ cellphone, I'm sure an 20+ year old cell phone works just fine but other than for the sake of nostalgia or irony why use one?

 

 

 

 

Id be ecstatic with 99.99 pct reliability. 

 

In all honesty

 

id guess if I used the reel the way I used other reels 

 

I’d say a 50/50 shot of saltwater intrusion requiring repair over a 10 year window 

 

and that’s a mako

 

all other brands less faith

 

gets me back to it really depending on faith that the company will be around in 10 years 

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12 mins ago, JohnP said:

 

gets me back to it really depending on faith that the company will be around in 10 years 

Why would you have faith that islander will be around in 10 years or any fly reel company really?  Your most important factor in selecting a new reel is whether the company will be in business in 10 years?  It's just a fishing reel not an Insurance company or a bank LOL.

 

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Speaking of Charltons or Mario's, anyone have detailed photos of the reel disassembled so you can see how the are sealed differently than others?  Seems to be a secret as could never find anything on the Web.

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2 hours ago, Cpalms said:

Why would you have faith that islander will be around in 10 years or any fly reel company really?  Your most important factor in selecting a new reel is whether the company will be in business in 10 years?  It's just a fishing reel not an Insurance company or a bank LOL.

 

 

My most important factor is workmanship

 

then complexity of things that can go wrong 

 

then belief a company can repair it if something does go wrong 

 

I don't have faith that any small reel company will be around in 10 years.  but it’s a simpler design and the drag is not a black box 

 

theres at least a chance I can service or repair it myself. 

Edited by JohnP

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Posted (edited) · Report post

John

 

Interesting debate. Is there any evidence that suggests large or even medium sized companies are likely to have greater longevity than a good small company.

I have Fly reels from a medium sized company based in the uk. They are still trading but they can’t support the two reels and five spools I purchased from them as after around two years of making them they discontinued them.

As always the call belongs to the man reaching for his own wallet.

Mike

Edited by Mike Oliver

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10 mins ago, Mike Oliver said:

John

 

Interesting debate. Is there any evidence that suggests large or even medium sized companies are likely to have greater longevity than a good small company.

I have Fly reels from a medium sized company based in the uk. They are still trading but they can’t support the two reels and five spools I purchased from them as after around two years of making them they discontinued them.

As always the call belongs to the man reaching for his own wallet.

Mike

 

Hi Mike!

 

i hope you are doing well.

 

this is a good conversation over a pint, so I’m just sorry I’m not there to buy you one.

 

anyway 

 

let me take a step back

 

for me, stability of a company seems to matter once we get over the $500 USD range.

 

call me cheap.

 

either I’m going to get a cheap (but hopefully ok good) Reel  from China or I’m paying for quality and ability to honor a repair agreement 

 

Above that price I’m also sort of hoping a company will be around for what can go wrong will go wrong.

 

im just not buying the claim sealed-means-sealed-drag -guaranteed -you betcha-100%-so -sealed -you -can -bank -on -it -forever -and-ever marketing.

 

there will always be a story of a reel that was lost and found in the belly of a great white shark after 20 years.. and the reel is still good as new.

 

I agree it is really hard to know which machine shop will survive after the owner runs off with the 28 year old secretary but dies after an overdose of viagra.

 

id say if there is good evidence they are moving product on a steady basis, then maybe I’d feel I have a prayer

 

and it doesn’t matter if Ernest Hemingway is on their pro staff 

 

‘cause it will fail underwater just like every light, camera, surfboard, intake valve etc. that I’ve ever owned and put into salt water has, if given enough time and/or with changing conditions and expansion/contraction 

 

well i I hope you enjoyed my sarcasm. 

 

Did I mention I don’t believe sealed means sealed?

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Mike Oliver said:

John

 

Interesting debate. Is there any evidence that suggests large or even medium sized companies are likely to have greater longevity than a good small company.

I have Fly reels from a medium sized company based in the uk. They are still trading but they can’t support the two reels and five spools I purchased from them as after around two years of making them they discontinued them.

As always the call belongs to the man reaching for his own wallet.

Mike

I agree.

 

Fly reel companies are small niche players.  They have products that are constantly changing.  My brother has a Nautilus I bought for him ten years ago, he can't get a spool for it anymore.  My Makos on the other hand still have spools readily available.  Mako could go under (but I doubt it as they still wait times from 8-12 weeks for most reels due to the still high demand and I know they are profitable), or Judy could decide she's tired of making reels and wants to close shop.  For this reason I don't even consider if a manufacturer will be around in ten years unless they have such shoddy business practices that raise that question, and if that were the case it's unlikely they are producing a product I would want.

 

I would pick a reel based on it's features, quality and aesthetics.  If you every pick up a Charlton or Mako reel it simply oozes quality.  I have friends (and a wife) would know very little about fly fishing and reels but when I show them my reels they easily pick out the Charlton made reels as being head and shoulders higher quality than my other reels (like Abel and Tibor).  I'm not saying they are perfect but they are vault like in the same way a Mercedes door thunks when you close it and the chassis has the feeling of solidity like a chunk of granite when you drive it.  Are they heavy?  Yeah, they're not light reels, although I wish Jack had lived long enough to finish the designs for a 9400 size reel that he'd planned to be light enough for 7/8 wt reels.  But they have unreal drags, awesome type III anodized finishes, and beautifully made.  Good enough for me for all my big game needs.

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11 hours ago, JohnP said:

 

Id be ecstatic with 99.99 pct reliability. 

 

In all honesty

 

id guess if I used the reel the way I used other reels 

 

I’d say a 50/50 shot of saltwater intrusion requiring repair over a 10 year window 

 

and that’s a mako

 

all other brands less faith

 

gets me back to it really depending on faith that the company will be around in 10 years 

How exactly do you use a reel that is more demanding than a reel sitting on the bottom of the ocean for six months?

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F1,

 

Judy hasn't been involved in about three years now. Mark Vorobik continues with MAKO reels.

 

JohnP,

I love my MAKOs, but I get your point too. There was a MAKO lost to the sea, found later and it was in perfect working condition. But, it is a lot easier for a seal to stay stationary on sea bed than to be in water and being constantly rotated (and in altering directions). I believe it can be done sufficiently well to keep water (and dirt) out for the lifetime of a fly reel, but it is not a simple O-ring (which will fail very fast). I have not seen the insides of MAKO in full, but would love to. And would love to have the tools and know-how how to open the reel. Some tools I know how the look like, but not how and in which order to apply them. The reel's structure is a bit of surprise and cannot tell from just having one in your hands. From the engineering is different and it requires manufacturing that is quite much more than on normal fly reels. If the Signatures were anything like in the design, I do not blame SA for dropping them quite fast after the aquisition as making them profitable via normal distribution methods would have probably required a price tag of way too much.

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6 hours ago, sms said:

F1,

 

Judy hasn't been involved in about three years now. Mark Vorobik continues with MAKO reels.

 

JohnP,

I love my MAKOs, but I get your point too. There was a MAKO lost to the sea, found later and it was in perfect working condition. But, it is a lot easier for a seal to stay stationary on sea bed than to be in water and being constantly rotated (and in altering directions). I believe it can be done sufficiently well to keep water (and dirt) out for the lifetime of a fly reel, but it is not a simple O-ring (which will fail very fast). I have not seen the insides of MAKO in full, but would love to. And would love to have the tools and know-how how to open the reel. Some tools I know how the look like, but not how and in which order to apply them. The reel's structure is a bit of surprise and cannot tell from just having one in your hands. From the engineering is different and it requires manufacturing that is quite much more than on normal fly reels. If the Signatures were anything like in the design, I do not blame SA for dropping them quite fast after the aquisition as making them profitable via normal distribution methods would have probably required a price tag of way too much.

 

 

i have no doubt it’s a really good seal and pretty good at keeping water out.

 

and if I could take it apart myself, to periodically inspect it, and easily replace parts that are readily available..., 

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