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JonS

Heaver setup

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Gonna get a heaver for the Winter fling and hopefully other trips to OBX. Its gonna be the Breakaway LDFCTP150-H2H. 12'6" rated 4-12 oz. conventional. From what I've read it should do the job.

 

I'd like opinions on how to set it up. I've got a few conventional, non levelwind reels. I may also pick up a levelwind also. Reccomendations? With tossing bait a non levelwind should suffice?????????? Should also cast farther. Should I use mono or braid? Braid makes more sense to me in both bite detection and great distances and hookset. What pound test?

 

Thanks

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Jon cant help you onthe rod, Maybe post on the red drum board, fish mojo board or ****? they are heaver experts there.

 

Braid on the point is BAD. Very crowded lots of tangles, braid is not a great idea there. On the other beaches its fine. 20# fireline is used by some of my buddies down there, me included. A levelwind reel for a heaver is a bad idea. YOu have a shock knot that needs to pass through the levelwind and this can be a problem. 99% of the guys use a non level wind for their heaver smile.gif I use 17# mono Berkley solar XT with a 40# or 50# big game shock leader......

 

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John M

johnm@stripersonline.com

 

[This message has been edited by John M (edited 12-20-2000).]

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I have a Penn 525 on my heaver. Some guys use abu 7500 or Diawa Slosh 30's.

 

On my lighter bait rod a 10 footer I have a Mag Elite on it.

 

Spinner wise I have 2 Diawa 2600's and a neptune.

 

The bigger abus and Diawa are good if yuo wantto use 20# or higher mono. The Mag elites need a lighter line like 15# inorder to get the capacity you need.

 

 

 

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John M

johnm@stripersonline.com

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Arne I have a All-star 2piece/1piece. Its 12 feet 4 inches long and throws the snot outta 8 an bait.I got the rod form Tres at Hetterasoutfitters. I am looking around for a second heaver right now, always good to have a back up inthe rack.........

 

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John M

johnm@stripersonline.com

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Hey JohnM;

 

I have always (since I met you) considered you the striper king! Now, however, I thinj I have to add HeaverPro to your repetoire. Good advice. Stick to what you know and defer to Tres on the rest.

 

See you next week! Happy Holidays!

 

D. Stokes

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Plenty of nice reels out there. The much rumored Mag 535 will be available ONLY IN THE UK in January, or so I just read on St. augustine fishing! The only rap on the Mag525 is the line capacity - some guys want more at Hatteras, where mono is socially required. A mag 535 will be the one to beat. Try Veal's (I lost the URL, do a Google search under veals' fishing tackle) or perhaps from Hatteras Outfitters or ron sutton's website. I have a prototype Mag 535 and while it's more than needed for plugging with spectra, for situations where mono is appropriate, it's dynamite.

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I just bought my first conventional heaver this fall so I am far from an expert on the topic. I had a breakaway 1509 (2pc/1pc) built and paired w/ the abu 7500 c3ct (non levelwind). I am extremely happy with this combo. I have landed drum up to 40" on it without a problem. It casts 8 and bait or very large unweighted eels very easily. I did hook a huge ray on it that I never landed and the drag seemed a bit sticky though. Another site to check out would be the noteboard at www.mulletstackle.com Their prices, quality and experience are hard to match on the outer banks.

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Stokes I am by no means the striper king. I know them striped fish but some of the fellas here put me to shame. And as for the heavers I have such vast expereince there....lol less than a year, but I have had some very good teachers......cya next week

 

------------------

John M

johnm@stripersonline.com

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The model I described above is the model # and the blank designation is the 1509. Glad to see that everyone likes the rod.

 

When I met Ron Arra he mentioned that he got greater distance from 25# mono than 20#. The reels I'll probably use are a Shimano Triton Mark IV S for heavier mono and I've got a narrow spool Penn 500 with a couple of spools. One has 20 on it and the other I'll set up with braid.

 

When I went heaver fishing with a friend back in September in Jones beach the loaner I used had a Calcutta 700. There was a shock leader and I didn't have any trouble with the levelwind. I would think that you could set it up where it would flow through. I want to experiment with creating a knub on the heavy mono by heating it. Then wrapping the lighter line around itin a snelled fashion. Aquaseal could be used to smooth it out. Also using braided mono as a sleeve over the knot and then the aquaseal might be even better.

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Jon thats the rod I have the 1509 its a club smile.gif Jon who is building it for you? I have seen this rod really ruined by builders who did nt know what the hell a heaver was all about smile.gif

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I'm not sure what mono Ron uses, but I use Big Game, and the difference between 20# and 25# is miniscule--.018" for the 20, .019" for the 25. You get a few extra pounds of break strength and a little more abrasion resistance from the 25, at no loss of distance. I think Ron also runs a 50# shock leader at all times.

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JONS,

 

I dunno much about heaver fishing, but as to your idea about building a knot w/ the heavy mono shockleader and then applying a flame to heat it and meld it into a smooth or mostly smooth ball that will in turn pass through the guides and or levelwind easier. If this is what you are implying it is most certainly not the safest idea, but done properly can be somewhjat effective. I have done this, for other reasons, and by only heating the heavy mono, and when it is still liquid platic or whatever, quickly pressing it into the knot. Repeating this many times worked well. But just doing it till the knot is SEMI perfect, which is once or twice of heating and molding w/ bare finger. THen coting multiple times with nail polish till it is perfect. Use MAYBLELINE 7-DAY WEAR Clear nail polish, stole some from my girlfriend earlier this summer, and it is the best nail polish for all fishing uses.

 

JC

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JonS...The LDFCTP150-H2H is a good Heaver rod. The blank (BGSW1509-2) the rod is built on is made by All-Star to Breakaway's spec. The blank is very light in weight, but I have contended for some time now that there is something odd about the way the longer (11' +) All-Star/Breakaway rod weight is distributed... Some models appear tip-heavy while others seem butt heavy to me... Just an observation and it does not matter that much on this type of rod - your not going to be holding and casting it a lot like a plugging rod...

 

The rod is rated to 12 oz., which IMO is the minimum weight rating that you want for a true Heaver. At 12 oz. you are looking really at 8 and bait, possibly 10 and bait...anything higher and you will be outside the envelope of both safety and effectiveness on that rod... I have heard on several occasions the rod can handle 12 oz. and bait... I have heard this from Breakaway themselves as well as others including OBX fishermen... Not IMHO! In my hands, 12 oz. plus bait was over the edge on the rod. Any kind of power cast on it w/ a 12 oz sinker is asking for trouble...although breakage on the rod is relatively low as I been told.

 

Now the question is...do you need a Heaver rod that will throw 10 and bait and more importantly 12 and bait. If you are serious about fishing at the OBX or even a place like Assateague Island in MD, then I would get a heavier rated rod...a rod that will handle 14 or 16 oz. So many times over the years I have found myself throwing 12 oz and bait, not only in the OBX, but also in places like NJ, NY, MA, DE, etc. because the conditions warranted it... There is nothing more frustrating than to use a rod that can handle 8 and bait (and not much more) and watch your rig washed up on the beach in no time when the current is ripping. And of course if you have to throw 12 oz. sinkers it may well be time to go home ...

 

My current top 3 Heavers are rated for; 14 oz (factory G. Loomis 1448C) and 16 oz (2 custom rods on Lami's 1442 blanks)... The 1448 Loomis is nice and will throw 10 plus a bunker head. However she is a little soft at the tip which really is not a factor unless you have a large ray or shark on (somewhat common in the OBX surf at certain times of the year). Also, there are some complaints circulating about the rod tip breaking on occasion.

 

The 1442 Lami's are rated higher and I think from what I remember are lighter in blank weight compared to both the Loomis and /or the Breakaway/All-Star's rod (blanks) referenced. The 1442 blanks are stout and will throw 12 oz. and a large bunker head...

 

Whatever you do, make sure the Heaver is a least 12 feet long (assuming that

you are not a midget) and don't skimp, get 7 guides (including rod tip) if not 8. Many times I have seen fishermen go with 10.5' or 11' Heavers...bad move because the dynamics of throwing heavy weight "effectively" on a Heaver are proportional to the length of the rod and more so than under normal conditions of say a plugging rod... You want as much rod length to throw three quarters of a pound of weight as you can handle. Greater rod tip velocity becomes more important with these types of rod setups...and rod tip velocity increases w/ rod length.

 

Reels...IMHO, the Abu Ambassaduer 7500 C3CT (non-level wind) rules on the Heaver. The 7500 has one of the best anti-backlash track records of all the top reels plus its built like a tank...excellent machined gears and other components plus the frame is all metal. The auto-engage/disengage push button for the spool is nice. The drag though is not the best...but w/ 20# mono (recommended) the line capacity of the reel is good. The reel surprisingly weights in at 18.3 oz. and has a good line retrieve at 5.3:1. The reel runs about $180...

 

Daiwa's new 30SHV, which is the successor to the SLOSH 30, is also a good reel for a Heaver. I just acquired this reel and I am still getting use to it... Its "Super Speed Shaft" spool is probably one of the fastest on the market, however, it might be just too fast. I am experiencing more over-runs w/ this reel than other reels albeit I am still on the learning curve with it. Its drag is supposedly waterproof and it seems smooth, but not yet tested. The reel does have very good line capacity for 20# mono and is light in weight at 18 oz. because its frame is made of a graphite composite. I am not yet sold on the graphite frame thing that many reel manufacturers are going to... Another advantage of this reel is the retrieve ratio is high at around 6.1:1... The price is also right for this reel at about $135...

 

Another choice for the Heaver would be Shimano's Calcutta 700S (non-level wind). It's has the smoothest drag out there and is similar to the Daiwa 30SHV/SLOSH 30 as far as spool shaft speed is concerned...may be just too fast and unwieldy. I get more backlashes on it than the Abu Ambassaduer. It has a metal uni-frame and capacity is very good for 20# mono at around 300 yards plus... Internal gears are so-so! This is a big critter reel where line capacity and smoothness of the drag are essential... It's a very good reel for shark fishing in the surf at the OBX. Actually, I use the level wind version of this reel (model 700) for the big critters. When you are under siege with a big critter, the level wind is a bonus...take my word for it. Hard cranking for 30 to 60 minutes with a fish as big as you and not worrying about thumbing your line is very desirable. I forget...we ain't fishin for sharks here...but are they fun out of the surf on occasion. The big ones can really test your mettle (and your Heaver biggrin.gif...). The 700S weighs 18.3 oz., but line retrieve is a little slow at 4.7:1... The real down side is cost for the Calcutta 700S at $250...

 

I don't own the Penn 525 Mag, but I have used it now a number of times to endorse what everyone else is saying... It's one of the best casting reels on the market in its class for distance. The drag seems excellent and the mag control (anti-backlash) is sweet... Capacity is a problem w/ 20# mono though and the alleged 535 model in Europe is a wait and see... From what I understand, the forthcoming 535 will be an after-market modified 525...meaning that the 535 will not be a Penn deal. I am still waiting to see how the line capacity is going to be increased, if that's in the making, on the existing 525 frame. Side plate and spool modifications??? Jim DE where are thou...I am running afoul here!!!

 

Other possible reels for the Heaver would be the Penn International 975, excellent for big drum and sharks in the surf!

 

The level-wind versus non level-wind in my book does not much matter on the bigger reels... The dynamic's of the bigger reels throwing off line from the heavier spools at higher rates of revolving inertia during a cast coupled w/ a heavy sinker pulling through the air, will send the shock leader knot through the level wind like a cannon. Also, the level wind's mechanism (worm shaft and gears) is so well machined and synchronized nowadays that it's not much of a factor for the casting fisherman. Lost of distance w/ the level wind - maybe 10% or so under most applications - not enough to be a factor IMO.

 

I have vacillated between braids and mono on the Heavers...and my conclusion is mono is better for me... If I blow-up the reel w/ braid the tangle "for me" is more difficult to take out. Plus there is the high cost of braid not to mention that ever-present problem of the mono shock leader (mandatory on a Heaver) to braid running line connection (knot). Your Heaver's shock leader will be 50# mono and tying this stuff just to a mono running line is an art unto itself. Tying to braid and hoping that it will hold especially when LARGE is on, well lets just say that I have more confidence that George W. Bush will make a good president! smile.gif... The reality is that the mono to braid knot is the weak link... I read just recently that most braid to mono knots test out at or below 80% of line strength...not to good! Mono to mono line knots fair much better in holding to line strength. Also, mono rules at the OBX while braid is not looked upon favorably.

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