Why is my spray can clear coat causing epoxy problems?

[Livefreeordie]

Through a process of elimination, I've determined my clear coat is causing my epoxy top coat to 'orange peel'. I know this because plugs without the clear come out fine.

I have been giving the clear coat at least 5 days to dry, in some cases more than a week. I am using Krylon Color Master acrylic crystal clear.

2 things I 'think' might be causing problems are: I am wiping down the plugs with denatured alcohol between 15 minutes and 45 minutes before applying epoxy. I am not scuffing & tacking the clear coat.

Could the denatured be dissolving the clear coat? I am not seeing any residue on the tack cloth (paper towel)

Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated. For paint I am using spray cans and some latex from a preval spray bottles, both of which take epoxy fine without the clear coat.

[The Lure Washer]

I've used duplicolor or minwax satin lacquer as a top coat before etex. Never had a problem

[Woodpecker]

I think scuffing may resolve it. An unscuffed surface, especially a hard shell gloss provides no texture to break the surface tension of the epoxy....think rain beading up on a freshly waxed car...It is counterintuitive but smoother flow outs of top coats require a rougher surface, not a smoother one. I doubt it is the Krylon but I have only used it in woodworking...and only once as I thought it bonded poorly but it is possible that the epoxy re activated it. It would probably wrinkle...more than orange peel but the epoxy may be thick and heavy  enough to disguise wrinkling as orange peel.

[Jig Man]

Not sure why you need to do a clear under the epoxy. I paint, then epoxy over the paint. No clear, no denatured, no scuffing.

[Simp]

I think he might be clear coating over the layers of paint. Maybe trying another brand of clear coat might solve the problem.

[Livefreeordie]

All good advice, thank you. It is wrinkling more than orange peel, I just didn't know that term, which is sad because I was a painting contractor for years. I was using the clear for a few different reasons, including I thought it would protect paint from alcohol wipe down. But I found I don't need it.

What can I do with the wrinkled epoxy plugs?i will just fish most of them but a couple were supposed to be presents, and I want them to look pretty.

Thanks for the help everyone

[DreamsOfHatteras]

I'm guessing it's sort of a scratch coat. I use a spray clear over certain colors (certain pearls, mostly createx ones) because the pearls themselves will cause fisheyes. If you need to use a spray clear before epoxy, and the one you're using is causing fisheyes, then switch spray clear. The paint stuff is generally only as complicated as you choose to make it. No denatured, gloves, or concerns about hand oils come into play when I am painting/clearcoating.

[DreamsOfHatteras]

Wrinkles seem to denote a different but still chemical reaction in your system. I'd try a different spray clear.

 

It's possible to sand out some of the wrinkles, not too aggressively, then re-cover with epoxy. They'll look better, but likely will still have some adhesion issues between layers.

[BigFischer]

Through a process of elimination, I've determined my clear coat is causing my epoxy top coat to 'orange peel'. I know this because plugs without the clear come out fine.

 

I have been giving the clear coat at least 5 days to dry, in some cases more than a week. I am using Krylon Color Master acrylic crystal clear.

 

2 things I 'think' might be causing problems are: I am wiping down the plugs with denatured alcohol between 15 minutes and 45 minutes before applying epoxy. I am not scuffing & tacking the clear coat.

 

Could the denatured be dissolving the clear coat? I am not seeing any residue on the tack cloth (paper towel)

 

Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated. For paint I am using spray cans and some latex from a preval spray bottles, both of which take epoxy fine without the clear coat.

 

 

If you're using krylon gloss clear also pick up Krylon Satin clear.

Spraying the gloss first will make the colirs pop more but the slickness can cause fisheyes.

Spraying a light coat of the satin clear on top of the gloss coat will stop the fisheyes.

Just an fyi to consider, too much heat in your spinner box or on your epoxywill also cause fisheyes.

Hope this helps

[Woodpecker]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Livefreeordie 



All good advice, thank you. It is wrinkling more than orange peel, I just didn't know that term, which is sad because I was a painting contractor for years. I was using the clear for a few different reasons, including I thought it would protect paint from alcohol wipe down. But I found I don't need it.

What can I do with the wrinkled epoxy plugs?i will just fish most of them but a couple were supposed to be presents, and I want them to look pretty.

Thanks for the help everyone

My experience is with solvent based catalyzed varnishes...which is an epoxy of sorts. I use catalyzed primers as well. It does not happen often but when I apply topcoats I sometimes get wrinkles in the primer. In my case there are a number of reasons it can happen but no matter the cause,  the one thing that remains true is that once wrinkled the primer is no longer bonded to the wood so a complete stripping is required. Sometimes the wrinkles in my work will settle out to almost unnoticeable  as the topcoats dry but they will chip and flake easily so I start over when it happens.

As for an orange peel phenomenon...When I am working with stains, especially with multiple layers of color I apply diluted clear coats between layers of color as a sealer. If I apply a layer of  sealer too heavily, to a layer of color that  is not dry enough I can get mottling, which draws up color from the previous layer and redistributes it in an orange peel pattern. When it dries it will be fairly smooth but the colors will have been rearranges and the texture will be slightly imperfect as the  solids have accumulated in some areas.  I don't think color lifting is much of a concern for what you are doing but the mottling phenomenon itself is, similarly to your problem, a case of a fresh application of material reactivating a previously applied layer. Mottling in this fashion looks awful but I have not found it to cause bonding problems so I thought it worth mentioning and it might help you evaluate the work you have already completed.

In other words...you clear coat could be mottling...but being clear it would not be so obvious. Again, I have found that mottling does not necessarily indicate a long term bonding problem.

[Livefreeordie]

Batch I epoxied last night came out good enough. Did not use clear coat spray on these. I have some coming down the pike that I will use the clear coat on, but scuff and tack before epoxy, maybe eliminate that as the cause. I read and appreciated all of the above comments and advice. Thanks!

[Livefreeordie]

Originally Posted by Woodpecker 

 

I think scuffing may resolve it. An unscuffed surface, especially a hard shell gloss provides no texture to break the surface tension of the epoxy....

So, last night I used the same epoxy over the same clear coat, but scuffed 1st. They came out very nice.

[Sparky]

I switched to matte clear lacquer and never had a problem after. No need to sand.

[Heavy Hooksetter]

Jim,why are you using clear coat and epoxy,no need for the clear coat at all.

eliminate that and you will have no problem.

see?

[Livefreeordie]

 Looks good Roddy.

 

I don't think I'll use the clear again, except in special circumstances.