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America's Got Natural Gas, So Where are the Cars?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digger in Va View Post

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by inthered View Post

Digger in VA, you've brought considerations to the fore, but the oil people want no part of rational discussions.  

Stuff must be a moneymaker before it gets any consideration. There's the rub: a government effort to facilitate development of competition.   


The Governments job is to provide incentives to steer the development. Today we have the tail wagging the dog.

Oh another note Diesel never intended that engine to run on petrol. It was intended to run on plant matter.


Digger in Va, your other note, about plant matter, is something new to me but not shocking.  I had always thought the original interest was to develop an engine that would run on coal dust. 



:howdy:


I'm curious about the "Oh," however.  Did you say that just as a colloquialism or as an intended negative implication of some kind?


At my age, just about everything pisses me off!

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My company has a bunch of the Honda Civic GX models in service, they drive like a very slow Honda Civic that does not go very far between fill up's.

I had one for a week when my normal vehicle was being serviced. The Limited Range is a big concern, I never got over 190 miles per fully charged tank, add the limited locations to refill the CNG tank & you have to really watch the fuel gauge & the distance you are from a refilling location!

I drive a Escape Hybrid SUV every day @ work, the average 30Mpg I get fully loaded is great.

Why are there no diesel hybrid vehicles available in the US?

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My company has a bunch of the Honda Civic GX models in service, they drive like a very slow Honda Civic that does not go very far between fill up's.

I had one for a week when my normal vehicle was being serviced. The Limited Range is a big concern, I never got over 190 miles per fully charged tank, add the limited locations to refill the CNG tank & you have to really watch the fuel gauge & the distance you are from a refilling location!

I drive a Escape Hybrid SUV every day @ work, the average 30Mpg I get fully loaded is great.

Why are there no diesel hybrid vehicles available in the US?

 

Our very own DotGov prevents the sale of small Diesel Vehicles in the States.

*

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Digger in Va, your other note, about plant matter, is something new to me but not shocking.  I had always thought the original interest was to develop an engine that would run on coal dust. 

:howdy:

 

I'm curious about the "Oh," however.  Did you say that just as a colloquialism or as an intended negative implication of some kind?

 

colloquialism

DiggerinVa
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I know a guy that has a natural gas powered truck. He loves it. Get's great milage and like no road tax so he claims it's like half the cost to operate. Infrastructure is an issue so he has to plan ahead but it's not a huge problem. He got the truck used from some local city agency. It's kindof a beater but he swears by it.


My other rod is at your Mothers house!
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Gotcow? View Post

Propane is a byproduct of fractioning crude oil.

The home compressor hooks up to your home gas supply line and takes the input of .5 psi and pressurizes it to over 3000psi for the tank in your car.

Not sure I'd want a 3000psi + NG system in my garage even if it is small scale.



But under your barbque is ok?


My other rod is at your Mothers house!
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But under your barbque is ok?

 

The tank under your BBQ is filled with Propane NOT Natural Gas.

The Pressure in a propane tank varies with temperature for example, @70deg F the pressure in a 20Lb Propane tank is 110Psi, @ 100deg F it is 177psi,

Not even close to the 3000PSI of a natural gas tank, this is why we do not use Stored natural gas to run out BBQ's, Stoves, etc....

 

Having a Home Natural gas Compressor in my Garage that runs for 8 Hours to charge a 3000Psi tank seems like a recipe for disaster, too many possible points of failure ( & dangerous failure points) for me to be comfortable with.

what about the electrical cost of running the N/G compressor for 8 Hours? It has got to be high, Probably higher than charging a plug in Hybrids Battery pack!

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I had a dual-fuel Ford Focus, that ran on Unleaded Gasoline, or CNG.

It had two tanks, neat, kinda like a spare tire!

(It was a DOT car, bought at auction for $400)

I made money on that one...$2000 from the insurance company, $200 from the junkyard!

 

Miles per dollar had me running unleaded all of the time.

I kept the CNG tank full, in case I ever ran out of gas.

 

CNG burns completely clean.

In Brasil, apartment buildings have central air conditioning.

The compressor is driven by a big V-8 running on CNG.

The synthetic oil is changed at the equivalent of a million miles.

It is absolutely spotless.....no hydrocarbons! CNG is great for motors.

 

I think the oil companies keep CNG priced to be no competition for unleaded gasoline.

><))))))))))@>
*AMMODYTE*

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I had a dual-fuel Ford Focus, that ran on Unleaded Gasoline, or CNG.

It had two tanks, neat, kinda like a spare tire!

(It was a DOT car, bought at auction for $400)

I made money on that one...$2000 from the insurance company, $200 from the junkyard!

 

Miles per dollar had me running unleaded all of the time.

I kept the CNG tank full, in case I ever ran out of gas.

 

CNG burns completely clean.

In Brasil, apartment buildings have central air conditioning.

The compressor is driven by a big V-8 running on CNG.

The synthetic oil is changed at the equivalent of a million miles.

It is absolutely spotless.....no hydrocarbons! CNG is great for motors.

 

I think the oil companies keep CNG priced to be no competition for unleaded gasoline.

 

Not So, When Unleaded Regular was around $4 a gal My company figured that the Gallon equivalent retail price of the CNG was about $2 a gallon (Being a utility company our actual cost was significantly lower); So no question it is much cheaper to run on CNG.

Now, did the AC compressor driver (The V8 Engine) have a CNG tank that stored the gas or was the Natural Gas piped in.

I have a Natural gas backup generator in my home that runs right off my gas line, I installed it after 2 weeks without power & chasing down Gasoline to keep my genny running.

.

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CNG is not sold by the gallon.

It is sold by the cubic foot.

The energy companies changed the formula for pricing.

Now, they calculate "Ergs" first, charge you by the "Erg" and then figure out how many "Ergs" in a CF.

This is the same nonsense they did to Diesel prices, once cheap, now expensive.

 

CNG used to be a bargain. It cost me $12 to fill a tank that was good for 200 miles.

I could leave NYC on CNG, deplete the entire tank, and the car switched to Gasoline when CNG was gone.

But the price went WAY up, soon after I bought the car, so CNG was just a technicality. I used gasoline.

 

My car was not a V8. The V8's are in Brazil. My Focus was 4 cylinder (I think)

It had two tanks, the CNG tank looked like a beer barrel. Two filler spouts, one on each side.

The car was parked, sideswiped by a druggie, and his insurance totalled it. They paid $2000, and let me keep it.

It still drove, but was very ugly. It needed work (besides cosmetic) so I junked it. I drove it to the junkyard.

 

The reason I believe the price of CNG is kept artificially high, is because it is!

Sales prices of CNG bear absolutely no relation to the cost of production.

It's like: "If you don't like the price, go someplace else."

 

Common sense tells you that if it was cheaper to run a fleet on CNG, all fleets would be using it.

It was an experiment. There were tax credits. CNG was cheap. Experiment over, no tax credits, CNG expensive. Over.

><))))))))))@>
*AMMODYTE*

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How do you guys feel about taking a steel tank holding about 100cuft of air @ 6000psi and strapping it on your back, then jumping off a boat with it?

 

Meh, just another day at the office for Mike Nelson.

 

BTW, had the tanks topped off with propane for the pool heater a little while ago. Price was just over $6.00/gallon. Local gas company was bought out by Suburban and they are putting the wood to us.

Call me Peter
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CNG is not sold by the gallon.

It is sold by the cubic foot.

The energy companies changed the formula for pricing.

Now, they calculate "Ergs" first, charge you by the "Erg" and then figure out how many "Ergs" in a CF.

This is the same nonsense they did to Diesel prices, once cheap, now expensive.

 

CNG used to be a bargain. It cost me $12 to fill a tank that was good for 200 miles.

I could leave NYC on CNG, deplete the entire tank, and the car switched to Gasoline when CNG was gone.

But the price went WAY up, soon after I bought the car, so CNG was just a technicality. I used gasoline.

 

My car was not a V8. The V8's are in Brazil. My Focus was 4 cylinder (I think)

It had two tanks, the CNG tank looked like a beer barrel. Two filler spouts, one on each side.

The car was parked, sideswiped by a druggie, and his insurance totalled it. They paid $2000, and let me keep it.

It still drove, but was very ugly. It needed work (besides cosmetic) so I junked it. I drove it to the junkyard.

 

The reason I believe the price of CNG is kept artificially high, is because it is!

Sales prices of CNG bear absolutely no relation to the cost of production.

It's like: "If you don't like the price, go someplace else."

 

Common sense tells you that if it was cheaper to run a fleet on CNG, all fleets would be using it.

It was an experiment. There were tax credits. CNG was cheap. Experiment over, no tax credits, CNG expensive. Over.

I never said NG was sold by the gallon, I said my company ran a price comparison & the equivalent of what Ng cost could be compared to paying $2 a gallon for gasoline.

who knows, If oil keeps dropping we may end up with $2 gas

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CNG certainly has its place, especially in big city bus fleets, and commercial fleets, where it runs cleaner than even 'clean' diesel. Next to that, its time is not yet here.

"I think, that all right thinking people, are sick & tired of being told that they're sick & tired of being sick & tired. I, for one, am not. And I'm sick & tired of being told that I am."
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