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WickedStriper

Boat rod wobble when under pressure?

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What causes this?  I know some rods have a gimbal butt that you can slot into a fighting belt that prevents the rod from wobbling/rotating, but outside of using a belt, how does one minimize this wobble when retrieving under pressure?  Could the rod length affect the wobble?  Could the rod vs reel weight affect it? What about the crank power of the reel?  Thanks.


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If you are talking about the tendency for a conventional rod to want to "roll over" (rotational torque), a spiral wrapped (aka acid wrap) rod will help solve the problem.. A search here on spiral/acid wraps will return a plethora of reading material.

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Get a spiral wrapped rod, you'll never have that problem again. I own one, and you will be amazed.

 

Spiral Wrap -

"A method for taking the line to the bottom of the rod on conventional casting type rods. Results in a rod which will not twist under load and is inherently stable."

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I've never used one of these before.  Interesting concept.  I will read up to learn more.  But what other factors could cause the rotation? 


In other words, if I was looking to buy a new boat rod + reel, and was not going to get a spiral wrapped rod, what factors should I consider to minimize the rollover?  Thanks.


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A narrower spool will help. The wider the spool the more wobble. The weight of the reel comes into play as well. A spinner will have less wobble because the weight of the reel is below the rod making it more stable. The size of the fish and the gear ratio comes into play as well. The lower the gear ratio the less wobble and the easier it will be the crank in the fish. That's why some reels have two speeds. Obviously, a belt will help you hold and stabilize the rod.


Most big game guys use swivel rod holders and never remove them from the gunnel of the boat.


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A narrower spool will help.

 

Not so sure that that's true.

 

We used to use the Penn 49Ms (and 349s and 149s, which had the same dimensions), which were very narrow, for pulling wire and bottom fishing for cod, and one of the biggest complaints that you heard about them is that they wobbled too much. Never heard the same complaints with the wide-spooled reels like the 140 and 500M.

 

I think that it's more a matter of center of gravity; a high reel such as the 49M makes the system top-heavy, and when you start unconsciously pushing the handle on the up-crank and pulling on it a little on the down-crank, the top-heavy system will result in a wobble. As folks pointed out, that's why you don't get it on a spinning reel--the reel under the rod lowers the center of gravity and creates more stability.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by CWitek View Post

Not so sure that that's true.

We used to use the Penn 49Ms (and 349s and 149s, which had the same dimensions), which were very narrow, for pulling wire and bottom fishing for cod, and one of the biggest complaints that you heard about them is that they wobbled too much. Never heard the same complaints with the wide-spooled reels like the 140 and 500M.

I think that it's more a matter of center of gravity; a high reel such as the 49M makes the system top-heavy, and when you start unconsciously pushing the handle on the up-crank and pulling on it a little on the down-crank, the top-heavy system will result in a wobble. As folks pointed out, that's why you don't get it on a spinning reel--the reel under the rod lowers the center of gravity and creates more stability.



That's because the 49 had a chrome over brass spool. Those things weigh a ton. The other factor is those reels were tall giving the whole rod and reel setup a high center of mass. 


All things being equal a lighter narrower spool and reel is more stable. 


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That's because the 49 had chrome over brass spool. Those things weigh a ton. The other factor is those reels were tall giving the whole rod and reel setup a high center of mass. 

 

All things being equal a lighter narrower spool and reel is more stable. 

 

So what you're talking about is the difference between, say, a 140 and a 146, or a 500M and a 501M, not narrow reels vs. wide ones of unrelated designs (such as the 49M vs. the 500M). Shouldn't make a difference if the center of gravity is the same. Outside of the 49Ms, I've never noticed much wobble, whether I'm using a narrow-spooled reel such as a 112H or one of my old 10/0 Senators. If I do notice it, it's with one of the little Abu 6500s that I use for fluke, probably because I want to muscle the little handle to get things moving faster.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by CWitek View Post

So what you're talking about is the difference between, say, a 140 and a 146, or a 500M and a 501M, not narrow reels vs. wide ones of unrelated designs (such as the 49M vs. the 500M). 



Yes, that is what I meant. Comparing a 49 to a saltist BG 35 is comparing apples to oranges. A good example would be to compare a 50 and a 50w on a large fish like a tuna. When using stand-up gear you will notice a significant difference between the two. 


There are a lot of factors at play besides the width of the spool though.


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As I say, I never notice it on the offshore stuff, only with the old 49Ms.

 

Normally fish Internationals 12-50, and have some old 10/0 Senators that still get the job done with 80, and never noticed any wobble either way. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen, but it's just not something that I notice or think about. Although I do think that what I mentioned in my first post--unintentionally pushing and pulling when you turn the reel's handle--does play a role.

 

And if I*m fishing heavy stuff 80s and sometimes even 50s--on a big fish, I'm probably in a harness, which makes all of the wobble go away.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by CWitek View Post

Not so sure that that's true.

We used to use the Penn 49Ms (and 349s and 149s, which had the same dimensions), which were very narrow, for pulling wire and bottom fishing for cod, and one of the biggest complaints that you heard about them is that they wobbled too much. Never heard the same complaints with the wide-spooled reels like the 140 and 500M.

I think that it's more a matter of center of gravity; a high reel such as the 49M makes the system top-heavy, and when you start unconsciously pushing the handle on the up-crank and pulling on it a little on the down-crank, the top-heavy system will result in a wobble. As folks pointed out, that's why you don't get it on a spinning reel--the reel under the rod lowers the center of gravity and creates more stability.


Mmmm, now that you say this.  I can confirm I had wobble issues with the Penn Squall 25N.  Never noticed any issues with my old Senators.  Do you think the narrower spool is what's messing it up? 


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Mmmm, now that you say this.  I can confirm I had wobble issues with the Penn Squall 25N.  Never noticed any issues with my old Senators.  Do you think the narrower spool is what's messing it up? 

 

Probably shouldn't admit this, but I don't even know what a Squall looks like. The old American-made Penns were so solid that I have a basement full of them--everything from the inexpensive 85Ms through International 50s--and haven't been in the market for a new reel in years. Lost my father close to a decade ago, and now I have all of his old Penns, too, some of them dating back to the years immediately after the Second World War. They just keep chugging on and doing their job.

 

But one thing that I notice is that a lot of the new reels have relatively small spools and oversized handles intended to help folks crank line despite the reels' very high gear rations. I suspect that what I mentioned before--the tendency to push on the handle when cranking up and maybe to pull a little cranking down--is amplified on the new little reels and makes the wobbling seem worse.

 

But that's just a guess. I suspect that my older Penns will last me another 25 years or so, and after that, I'll either be dead or not fishing all that much; either way, I doubt that I'll be needing anything new, except maybe some fly or spinning stuff.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by CWitek View Post

Probably shouldn't admit this, but I don't even know what a Squall looks like. The old American-made Penns were so solid that I have a basement full of them--everything from the inexpensive 85Ms through International 50s--and haven't been in the market for a new reel in years. Lost my father close to a decade ago, and now I have all of his old Penns, too, some of them dating back to the years immediately after the Second World War. They just keep chugging on and doing their job.

But one thing that I notice is that a lot of the new reels have relatively small spools and oversized handles intended to help folks crank line despite the reels' very high gear rations. I suspect that what I mentioned before--the tendency to push on the handle when cranking up and maybe to pull a little cranking down--is amplified on the new little reels and makes the wobbling seem worse.

But that's just a guess. I suspect that my older Penns will last me another 25 years or so, and after that, I'll either be dead or not fishing all that much; either way, I doubt that I'll be needing anything new, except maybe some fly or spinning stuff.



The newer reels have smaller spools because they are designed around superlines that have smaller diameters. The longer handles are so that you have more leverage. These new reels are designed to be light strong and powerful to tackle larger fish with smaller reels. 


The old senators are bulletproof and are still some of my favorites but I like to new stuff too.


WickedStriper do you have your reel clamp on your squall and is it tight enough? Is the reel seat tightened all the way? A conventional reel will always have some wobble because it's an overhand reel. If you are used to spinners it might just be that you are using a different type of setup.


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