GreyBadger

Penn Senator 6/0 drag problems

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Hi there, hoping someone can help me with this. I’ve recently bought a used Penn 114HL Senator2 (US made). It was in very good condition but as I do with all my reels I stripped it down anyway, gave it a thorough cleaning, and regreased it and built it back up. I’ve only today received the line I bought for it and so having spooled it up I tested the smoothness of the drag by putting it on a rod and tying the line to a door. Result was a jerky drag. Now I’m due to use this on a sharking trip on Friday so I know I’m cutting this fine, but I was hoping some of you Penn experts could assist?

 

As far as I am aware I have reassembled it exactly as it came apart, I take photos during the strip down, and also refer to the schematic, so I’m confident it’s not that. The stand-out thing about the drag stack is that there is one washer too many (based on the schematic). The stack is made up as follows –

 

· 1 plastic or fibre washer under the main gear

 

· then the main gear itself

 

· and then 6 carbon fibre and 5 stainless steel washers in the following order – C,S,C,S,C,S,C,S,CC,S

 

· then the spring disk

 

· spacer sleeve

 

· thick tension spring

 

· star wheel

 

· thick tension spring

 

Did the Senator2’s come with the HT100 drag stack as standard or is this likely to have been an after-market addition? I wonder if the previous owner fitted an upgraded stack but added the 6th carbon washer to the main stack rather than switching it with the plastic washer under the main gear?

 

However, I have tried several different arrangements of the washers, including removing the 6th washer altogether, and none of them solve the 'jerky’ problem. In fact, removing the 6th carbon washer made it considerably worse, and there seemed to be quite a large gap between the star drag wheel and the drag stack underneath. I even considered that it may be the amount of Cals Drag grease I used, so I’ve tried it with lots, and then tried it with just a smear, and then finally tonight I degreased the whole stack again and just soaked the washers in 3-in-1 oil, but that doesn’t work either.

 

I’m at a bit of a loss! I’ll try to post some pics if I can work out how to set up a flicker account or similar, but in the meantime has anyone got any ideas?

 

Thanks very much,

 

 

 

Mark.

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Have you checked out Alan tani's site in the senator section? Great pictorials. Ht100's are the way to go along with ht100 under the main gear replacing the fibre washer.

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Hi mate, yes I've put the same question up there and had a lot of responses. Think you're right about the HT100's, going to get a new set and see if that cures the problem. Thanks for the response.

 

Mark

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Alan's is the place to go for answerers and pictorials. The drag stack is the same as the USA 114H.


To reduce the gap between the handle and drag star sometimes and extra drag washer is added to the top of the stack just as a spacer. An extra metal washer under the "domed" Bellville washer is also used for the same reason. Most people like to have a small amount of friction on the drag when the star is backed all the way out. This is the reason for the added parts and can be done as long as when the bridge is set in place the extra height does not rub the inside of the right side plate.


You should be getting around 22 to 25lbs of smooth drag with the line pulling straight from the reel. This is how Penn test's their drag systems. Also a new drag will need to be broken in a few time before it gets completely smooth. (Not all cases) I grease the Carbontex but most of the time I do not grease the HT-100's.


I hope this helps and go fishing..!!


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I don't grease my drag washers either for this reason. I find that when they are greased too heavily they tend to be herky jerky. If a lot of grease makes it jerky then less greaase makes it what? Less jerky? Even less grease will make it even less jerky? until I find that sweet spot where it is not jerky at all?  Thats a lot of tear downs and greasing of drag washers to find that sweet spot where it is perfect. Dry washers don't jerk. They run smooth right out of the zipplock and I have extremely consistent conditions. Bone dry every time. jmho


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If you put oil on the drag washers they are now ruined. I would start over with new HT-100's or Carbontex in this order.



One under the main gear then,


Drag washers, keyed washer, drag washer, eared washer, drag washer, keyed washer, drag washer, eared washer, drag washer, keyed washer. One of the keyed metal washers may be thicker than the others. put that on top under the Bellville washer.


When assembled if the round sleeve is too short add another metal washer or drag washer to the stack just to raise the height. When assembled make sure it is not rubbing the inside of the plate.


On top of the sleeve goes the thick wave washer then the drag star.


I have put them in dry or slathered with Cal's with no jerky drags.


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Posted (edited) · Report post

I'm not sure I understand the question.

 

I think you have an older reel with the accessible drag. The felt washer goes under the last chromed metal spacer. The very last one that goes on top before the handle. The felt was usually left oiled. It's not really needed if you grease under that spacer.

 

The older 114H and 9/0 reels came with 3 thick asbestos drag discs and 3 metal drag washers. After that it is 5 drag discs and 5 metal washers. Plus an extra keyed metal washer if needed for a spacer to add height. Then the chromed spacer as the last part. This is for the accessible drag models.

 

The reels that you can't access the drags from outside use the same 5 drag system plus there is a beveled spring washer on top of the last flat metal washer.

Edited by handi2

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I don't grease my drag washers either for this reason. I find that when they are greased too heavily they tend to be herky jerky. If a lot of grease makes it jerky then less greaase makes it what? Less jerky? Even less grease will make it even less jerky? until I find that sweet spot where it is not jerky at all?  Thats a lot of tear downs and greasing of drag washers to find that sweet spot where it is perfect. Dry washers don't jerk. They run smooth right out of the zipplock and I have extremely consistent conditions. Bone dry every time. jmho

 

 

If you talk to the reel professional techs they will disagree. They see hundreds of reels sent to them with the complaint "jerky drag". Inevitably what they see are dry drag washers that have gotten wet. A part of the washer swells and creates a high spot and a jerky drag. Or, the wetness is saltwater leading to corrosion that creates a high spot and a jerky drag.

 

Drag grease prevents saltwater from causing any of those problems and with star drag reels the amount is inconsequential. Once the star is tightened any excess is squeezed out.

 

There may be some other explanation for your trouble, after all sometimes we all cannot figure out some issues with a reel or sometimes "fix it" not sure what we have done...but currently thousands and thousands of guys (and virtually every maker) are greasing their drags with most customers happy with the best performing drags we have ever seen in fishing reels.

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What he has is the 114HL 2. US made reel. It has the solid cross bars instead of posts. Some of the 114HL "lightweight" hada solid aluminum half frame with one top post.

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The older Senator reels are all US made, anyone that has a "2" at the end is Chinese. You can check penn parts out of Mystic Island for all the manuals online. They came with bars, half frame and full frame.

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penn senator black 6/0 the problem i have is after all new drags set inside and a pull on the drag: first pull is firm then zip the drag goes quite easily and cannot tighten????

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