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Fast vs slow surf rods -- what's the point?

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Alexey

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  • 2 weeks later...

Yes, this is a great thread on the proper rod. I have always thought faster meant better but in my case I see where I was wrong. In my particular situation I am in my mid 60's and am disabled from an bike accident which caused eventual loss of strength in my legs and over time this has somewhat effected my upper body strength. All of this equates to mostly shorter cast and stumbling around from trying to get extra power in the cast. I also have trouble getting too deep in the surf due to my loss of balance.

 

Would I be correct in assuming that I would be much better off with a medium action rod where I don't have to put as much energy into the cast to get satisfactory or even better distance results? What length rod sounds correct for me?

 

I would appreciate any suggestions.

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Tadpole,

 

Assuming you are not talking about fly gear (which Mike knows but I don't), faster rods are better for using the "Woodsman's Chop" style casts, which employs more shoulders and arms and less hips and legs, and more moderate rods are better for pendulum style casts, which utilizes your legs and hips to generate power that flows into your shoulders and arms.

 

The hatchet chop has the lure relatively close to the tip of the rod and a range of motion from 10-2 o'clock. The rod is brought quickly through the range and snapped towards the target, generally with the tip passing somewhere close to overhead. It is also known as a snap cast or Montauk chop. The reason it is called the Montauk chop is because guys who are standing on rocks have to maintain their center of balance on the rock- they can't take a step or two into the cast.

 

A pendulum style cast had a longer drop of the lure from the rod tip. The lure is drawn back until it starts to pull against the rod, then the rod is driven towards the target in a long sweep that may start back as far as 6;30 or 7 o'clock and end at 3.

 

To put it in boxing terms, a snap cast is a jab, crisp and efficient, and a pendulum cast is a roundhouse. Most people can put more power into a roundhouse than they can into a jab.

 

It appears you are better suited to use snap casts as your disability prevents you from really winding up for a roundhouse. In that case, you may very well be better off with a faster action rod, and your challenge will be to maximize the speed and crispness of your delivery. This can be done by shortening the length of your rod and removing weight from your outfit. A shorter rod goes from 10-2 in less time than a longer one, and a lighter outfit has less inertia to overcome to move it around.

I have become too old to drink bourbon on the rocks. I will still drink it in the parking lot. 

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I would say a more moderate action rod would be better in your case, as it requires less overall force to let off a cast. A faster rod will cast further but it will require more force to get that distance. A moderate rod is much easier to load, and cast all night, you will still get plenty of distance just not the same as some of the fast action rods. Not sure what rods you are thinking about and price range, but i would highly recommend a century s1 stealth, 1-4 oz. in the 10 ft length. This is my go to rod for the majority of the season and it handles well on big fish. I primarily fish sand beaches, not sure this would be a good rod for a place like the canal where a little more power may be necessary.

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A faster rod will cast further but it will require more force to get that distance.

 

I see this statement a lot and it always puzzles me. While distance is related to the force applied (obviously) I don't think that faster rods necessarily cast further. With a fast rod the force is applied quickly over a short period of time, explosive is a good term. With a slower more parabolic rod the force can be applied over a longer period of time because the rod stores it, in total more force can be accumulated and released into the projectile. Or so it seems to me. I have never been to distance casting tournament but from the videos I have seen it looks like they use slow action parabolic rods. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

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I agree with what akelly said as a general rule. All else equal, a moderate rod is less tiring than a fast one. I prefer more moderate actions over faster ones. Tadpole is in a unique circumstance, and general rules need to be rethought.

 

For his purposes, I would build a faster action rod with smaller, lighter guides at the tip, minimal weight in the butt, and encourage him to use a smaller reel. That way he can maximize the muscle groups that are working for him and reduce his need to use muscles that aren't doing so well, and use the build of the rod to reduce fatigue instead of the action of the rod.

I have become too old to drink bourbon on the rocks. I will still drink it in the parking lot. 

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With a more moderate rod, the force can be stored over a longer period of distance. You have to slow down to allow the force transfer to occur across the distance, not across the time.

I have become too old to drink bourbon on the rocks. I will still drink it in the parking lot. 

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Mike

 

Uk tournament rods for casting 51/4 ounces are pretty darned quick. It is true that the cast looks slow and in part that is due now to the extreme lengths of these rods which are 13 fee plus some of them. Because the rods are so long and powerful they can't be moved quickly through the air. The lead speed comes in part from the length of the rod and the fact the lead is on very long drop so with rod and drop combined you have a very long arc. Early Pendulum designed rods were 11 feet 10 inches long and had reel in high position and Guys like Paul Kerry would move these shorter rods through the casting arc with tremendous speed. Not many could he was exceptional. But over time the bigger slower men owned the court due to their ability to handle very long rods. These rods are not parabolic at all. Most Guys are not able to bend them.

 

A rod that Tadpole could consider is the Lami GSB 1321M. Now this rod can be cast with a short stroke like the snap cast but if there is room it will put out a semi pendulum cast really well. Now a fishing pendulum loads a rod very easily and will put way less strain on a Caster. The cast build up is slow to start with and accelerates out to the end. But it does not have to be a violent acceleration. It is a very smooth rhythmic cast. The Lami has thick walls and it can cope with semi pendulum casting. The tip is soft enough to stop lead or lure bounce and give enough feel when setting up the cast. I know this as I fish one on LI. An alternative for 1 to 4 ozs is the Zziplex Light Bass. This rod is super light can be built from 11 feet 7 inches down to 11 feet no probs and will snap cast and semi pendulum to. I use this rod again in LI and the Cape.

 

Fast taper thin wall blanks are not good for pendulum casting.

 

A unitech cast or a modified off the ground where the lead is placed well inside the rod arc loads a rod very easily. Key is to stay away from UK Tourney Rods and fast taper fast and powerful stiff rods in general. They are crap at fish fighting anyway and its not just about casting when considering problems with your body through illness or injury. The CTS S7 I saw Lou casting on a video and that's a 4 oz rod and worthy of consideration.

 

Rods like these and the Lami will cast down to 11/4 oz bucktails and cast them very well whilst really getting hold of 2 ozs to 4ozs as well and they are not heavy rods. FSC have suitable models in their range and so does CTS. I don't know the Century Rods at all. For me it is a must criteria that my surf rods can cast 1 to 4ozs but have to do the 11/4 oz well as that is the staple diet in Montauk for a lot of my fishing.

I rarely cast more than 3ozs for lures and plugs.

 

It will not be hard to get a rod to suit and it does not have to cost a kings ransom.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Mike

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Mike

 

Not sure what videos you have seen. But if it is one of a Tournament casting comp then none of the Guys will be snap casting. No chance of loading their rods properly due to very short rod arc.

 

On the casting court mostly it is full blown pendulum casts or maybe there could be some Guys still using the Yarmouth Back cast which is very similar to a pendulum in terms of how the power and speed is generated. Rods used in UK and European Tournaments are totally hopeless when it comes to fishing for good sized fish. They are too long and way too stiff and even a small fish would tire a strong Fisher. I could never imagine one being used Under The Light in Montauk.

You have superb home grown products for Striper fishing plus product from CTS and Century to play around with. You actually still have fish to target. Beach fishing in the Uk became all about high performance rods and long distance casting and complicated rigs because we have no fish worth targeting from the surf. Its amazing how the Industry managed to gloss over the fact that there was no point in buying surf tackle for use in the UK. But like Lemmings many believed if only they could cast 150 yards with a single Lug worm bait then they would become known as a "Big Hitter" to and maybe they could then catch what was never there. LOL.

 

I don't come over the pond to the USA twice a year for no good reason.:D

 

Mike

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OK, like I said "not snap casting". I had a Century 1327 SS. I'm 65, 170 lbs, a good athlete, still in good shape. With 3 to 3.5oz I absolutely could not load this rod without massive effort. Lots of raves about this stick but not from me. That's when I began to question the typical fast rod = distance formula.

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