Alexey

Fast vs slow surf rods -- what's the point?

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WOW Mr Cakes, you said that perfectly ......LOL Seriously, what Johnny said is true as is what Billy also stated... Go to a demo and try them for yourself to see what fits you best...

 

If you think a fast action rod controls fish better try that one out on a day when you have 15 pound blues at the end of your cast for a few hrs. I have seen fast action rods make grown men cry ...lol by the end of a long session. Remember, you are only fighting that fish with the top 25% of the rod...

 

Faster action does not translate expensive.......

 

This is true only on small fish ! Almost all of my rods are Ex. Fast. And on the bigger catch they quite nice bend deep in the but section :)

 

What does fast action mean?

 

 

Mean that they have more sensitivity and BETTER-FASTER hookset and say FAST rod helps if you're fishing near of some underwater obstacles, you will faster and efficiently pull fish on clean . BUT, FAST rod with small max. casting weight is not faster than a slow parabolic with bigger max. casting weight . All is in force needed to bend the rod .. . :)

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Sometimes a picture helps:

 

1748380

 

Yes, these type of images bring the most confusion to the anglers. In this image is shown HOW rod will reacts when you cast lure and when you set the hook . NOT how he will bending under the fish ...

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You guys are mistaking action for power.. Both are different.in simple terms Action is how a rod bends.. Power is how much it takes to put that bend into the rod. Fast action rods can have the same power as a moderate action or Slow action.. They bend diffent but can have the same power.

To say most prefer fast action is wrong.. Most prefer moderate or moderate fast. Take fly rods.. Most salt guys like fast action to punch wind.. Salmon/steelhead guys prefer moderate. Moderate simply due to jumping fish or fish in structure some absorber is needed to prevent pull outs and breakoffs.

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How does a simple thread turn into something so complicated and get more confusing after the 1st page. lol


Action ( extra fast, fast, mod, slow..) refer to the tip of the rod, faster action does not mean the rod is more powerful, but it means the rod is more stiff as the action become faster.


Power ( light, medium, heavy ) referring to the butt section of the rod after the tip section.  This is where the power comes in after hook up and how the rod handles the fish.  The butt section can have a longer power transition and dead stop by design. 


exaggerated example would be a spring steel wire / antenna tapped to a broom stick.  Flexible steel wire will be the tip ( action ), broom stick would be the butt section ( power ).  


10 ft extra fast rod would have 1-2 ft steel wire, 8-9 ft broom handle.



10 ft slow action would have 4-5 ft steel wire 5-6 ft broom handle.


Sensitivity is a little better on extra fast rod than a slow action rod since only very little section of the rod that flex ( tip ), but as other have mentioned, there is little to no flex in the rod to fight the fish.  


Majority of the sensitivity comes from the blank material / scrim material. Graphite is light, stiff, excellent in vibration transmission.  "Usually" more expensive.  fiberglass weights more, more flexible, dampened vibration. Blank maker will use any combination of these two to achive their design goal ( deep sea jigging, flipping stick, ugly stick, etc ).

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I respect all of the posters in this thread. But there many posts with a terrible amount of incorrect information being given in this thread.

 

Low pressure is coming....get out and fish before the electricity starts!!

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I believe that a lot of anglers use Fast action rods for the simple fact that they are widely available, they are cheaper to make since they have the most simple design, a cone shape if you will. This is a lot easier to do. A slow action blank may require some "zoning" ,as rod blank manufactures call it, to be able to achieve desired action but still have fighting power. I have come to realize that for me fast action rods have a much more limited use, they tire me out more than a slow action rod.

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Lol 3 pages!  It's simple.  Fast & slow rods each have their respective applications.  Ever tried to jig 4-5oz with a slow/noodle rod.  It's pointless.  Ever tried to cast an SP minnow with a X-fast/broomstick rod?  Same story. 


You buy a fast or slow rod depending on what type of fishing you're doing.


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WickedStriper puts it well, application is key. I do personally think that many times people will get a rod that is much to fast for their needs, I used to do the same thing thinking i need a much faster rod with a 3-6 oz rating when in reality a moderate/fast or moderate action rod with a 1-4 oz rating is much more practical for me fishing the open beach. this is not to say that people are wrong choosing a faster action higher rated rod just that what seems good in the shop/store may not be what you want on the water. My personal experience is that when im playing with a rod before i purchase it it should feel as though it may be a touch light, if this is this case when i get out on the water  ends up being just what i was looking for.


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You guys are mistaking action for power.. Both are different.in simple terms Action is how a rod bends.. Power is how much it takes to put that bend into the rod. Fast action rods can have the same power as a moderate action or Slow action.. They bend diffent but can have the same power.

To say most prefer fast action is wrong.. Most prefer moderate or moderate fast. Take fly rods.. Most salt guys like fast action to punch wind.. Salmon/steelhead guys prefer moderate. Moderate simply due to jumping fish or fish in structure some absorber is needed to prevent pull outs and breakoffs.

+1, John, great analogy buddy

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I have a broomstick, a couple of slooow honey Lamis, and several moderate action rods. They all bend to the same basic shape, but require different amounts of force to load them. Since I have my left thumb on the line all the time, I don't worry so much about sensitivity. I just use whichever rod jumps into my hand on the way up from the basement. ;)

 

 

John, it was a pleasure swinging the 1329 conventional on Sunday. I could happily use that one for everything I do.

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I understand the point that you are trying to make. But I can't agree with it. We both fish quite a bit. We both are knowledgeable. I'll defer to EB's post....as that's the unabridged version of one of the points i was making.

 

But...if me and the fish didn't move. And i gradually pulled. If the force required to move the fish was 10 lbs. Both rods being capable of applying that effort. Then yes you are right. There would be no issue Fast moderat or slow. They would all move the weight with zero risk.....Additionally Assuming each rod is of the same length. The slower rod would put the least strain on the angler.

 

But.

 

Fish move erratically. Drags must be smooth to pay out line (start up inertia is another factor)...Rods must flex to absorb shock while at the same time applying pressure.

 

Look at steelhead rods....very soft to protect light lines and small diamter hooks.

Freshwater "crankbait" rods. Soft slow actions to help keep fish take the bait a bit deeper, and prevent hooks from opening up puncture holes and shacking free.

 

 

Rods designed for daytime swordfishing or Deep dropping extreme depths are very slow and load up close to the reel seat.......all in an attempt to keep hooks from tearing as mentioned above.

 

Tight lines...and great discussion :D

 

There are clearly multiple factors at play here. I think in some examples there is bias - slow is soft and forgiving, fast isn't. That's not true. If a fish will become unbuttoned at 10lbs of force and 11lbs is applied, the soft rod won't do jack for you. Too much force was applied and the fish is gone. Might it help with a sudden surge, maybe, but then again so will a properly set drag. In your other example you use a rod pointed straight at the fish and one at 45, it won't matter at all. If you apply more force at 45 degrees than the fish can handle its a goner, if you apply less (via drag) at a straight pull you'll keep it on. The rod doesn't apply the force, the angler does. The rods may act differently depending on their design but they will still respond to the amount of force applied. The trick (and skill is applying the correct amount). We've all mad mistakes here and the angler that blames the fast action rod is only fooling himself.

 

Surfmaster250 clear one thing up that is confusing - power doesn't equal action. You can have hvy powered rod in fast action and slow action, they'll handle the same weights, lines, etc but they'll behave differently.

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There's really no truth to that. The rod doesn't do any work on its own. Its an elastic lever. The rod is loaded when the caster applies force to it, the more force applied, the greater the load and the energy stored in the rod and the greater the release of that energy at the completion of the cast. In order to load a rod the casting stroke needs to constantly accelerate and then come to a complete and abrupt stop. If the rod isn't accelerating it won't be loaded. If the rod doesn't come to a complete stop (it drifts) energy is wasted. 'Fast' action rods require more energy to load them properly, you'll either have to apply more power to the cast or more speed (or both). Slower action rods will load with less energy but will obviously release less energy at the completion of the cast, resulting in decreased performance (that might not be the best way to put it).

 

There are uses for both. Eels, bait, etc; a fast action rod might not be the best choice - the force needed to load the rod is probably greater than the durability of the eel's head... Plugs that tend to tumble in flight might also benefit from a slower action rod (or slowing down while using a fast rod). If you're making hero casts with a fast rod and a metal lip that energy is going to the lure and the lure might not handle it well. Older anglers or those with injuries issues might feel like they prefer a softer action rod since it will require less energy to load them but that comes at decreased performance.

 

I have some of both type of rods and in general I kept coming back to faster actioned rods.

 

 

:thanks: for the tutorial Drew C.

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As said different applications will have you reaching for different style rods but even though the masses may use a particular action for a specific use doesn't always mean it is best for all. Example In Montuak Moderate action rods are the local favorite but if you bucktail more than anything else ,you may find the sensitivity of a faster action more to your liking. (lemme explain) Your working your bucktail thru the rocks getting as close as you can without snagging. You feel the bucktail hitting the rock,you pull up quickly to try and prevent it from snagging. With a moderate/slower action the rod will bend further down causing a delay in response but with a faster action the tip bends only slightly and the power kicks in faster creating a quicker response. When finessing a buck tail thru a boulderfeild this can be the difference between snagging and not snagging.

 

Another benefit I have found with a moderate/faster action is on aerodynamic plugs like sp's and pencils and even tins is if you lay into your cast hard ,the plug will often shoot off the rod like a dart,with no wobble,giving you the greatest distance. On a slower /moderate action if you hit it hard ,you can overpower the blank easier and the plug comes off wobbling a bit. Cheating you out of distance.

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There is a different tool for every job. I prefer something a little more moderate for most surf applications. I do like a faster blank when punching metals or heavy needles into a headwind, but for MOST applications a moderate rod suits me better. Once you get your casting technique down pat, you will find the moderate rod is a lot easier to load and cast.


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Slow/parabolic rods for pencils / fast action rods for jigging, metals, etc - it's good to have options and personal preference plays a big part - if you fight fish and horse them in mainly using just your reel then there both at equal risk to potentially break IMHO

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