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Fast vs slow surf rods -- what's the point?

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Alexey

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I don't know if "stiff" is the best description. With many of the newer rods and layouts you will find many rods have a better recovery rate. It is a firmer feel but not stiff. Stiff describes a rod that does not bend easily and usually has poor sensitivy. With a lot of the newer rods out there you can find a rod with the backbone to throw 6oz's yet will load and cast well with just an ounce. The feel is different and not always in a friendly type of way yet the capabilities and performance are much better in some of the newer rods out there.

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What does fast action mean?

Fast action rods bend mostly in the top 1/3 or so of the rod. Usually not much near the bottom 1/2 but it stores it's energy there. I believe the term fast comes from how long it takes to return to the nuetural state " straight" after its energy is released. At least that's how it was explained to me.

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It is a fact that there is a kind of a buzz/fashion in angling press and brands regarding the merit of faster and faster action tip rods. I'm not sure faster is always better, it's not that simple..

 

A fast rod will transmit more direct motion to an artificial lure that needs twitching, it will also enable a sharper hook set on the strike prior to bending, on the other hand, a slow rod will provide more elasticity during the fight which can be an advantage against opening the hook, tearing flesh or keeping contact on a head shake while using barbless hooks. The analogy is somehow comparable to using braid and nylon.

 

There are situations where you need the rod to be stiff during the fight, like when you must turn the fish from heading to obstacles with a tight drag, a slow rod in this case is not really an asset.

 

When fishing with natural soft or live bait, I prefer a slow rod that will allow loading gradually and casting smoothly without damaging the bait.

 

A broom stick that doesn't flex is not better than a spaghetti with no bone, while casting you need some flexion that will be stored and then released to add speed to the final acceleration, what's most important in my view is the matching between lure weight and true rod rating.

 

Weather slow or fast, both rigidity and flexion are needed, which to prioritize is based on the type of fishing and sensations one is looking for, up to the user to find the sweet spot and capitalize on the tool in hand.

 

I believe the rod of the future will enable the user to select the desired flexibility during action.

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are easier to control a fish with. Right?

 

Wrong.

 

Slower actioned rods are absolutely better tools for fighting and controlling fish. Here's why:

 

a slower rod, one that flexes well into the butt section, lets you keep pressure on a fish that's thrashing around or making abrupt changes in its direction. The larger degree of flex allows the rod to absorb quick releases of tension that would leave you with slack line when using a faster rod. It is much harder for a fish to throw a hook that's attached to a slow or moderate action rod.

 

the larger amount of flex also absorbs some of the shock of a quick run or head shake instead of transferring it directly to the reel, whose drag has to overcome a quick moment of inertia before releasing any line. With the rod taking some of that shock it gives the drag time to engage and can protect your line from a sudden snap. a soft rod is like a big rubber band between you and the fish.

 

its also easier to land fish with a softer rod, not only for the reasons mentioned above which are doubly important when a fish is at your feet, but because you can more safely high-stick to get a fish within arms reach. a fast action rod can force you to either horribly high stick and risking breaking it or have to put the rod down to get the fish close enough to grab.

 

finally, when a soft rod flexes it decreases the effective length of the lever you're employing, or rather the lever the fish is employing, giving you a better mechanical advantage, or, rather, a smaller mechanical disadvantage. A long, stiff rod works against you and helps the fish.

 

 

For what its worth, I think a lot of people would appreciate softer rods and how well they fight fish if they learned how to fight fish more effectively to begin with. 90% of the people I see reeling in a bass or a blue from the beach is acting like they're on one of the 1980's bass fishing shows, trying to milk the fight for all the camera time its worth. Most of us are using gear that could literally pull a striper's spine out of its body if we wanted to, yet people baby fish like they're using 2# test tippets instead of 50# leaders. The more time you take to get a fish in the better the chance it throws the hooks, rubs you off on the bottom, your knots fail, or the hook opens up a nice big hole and slides right on out. Pull on the damn thing, hard. Your line won't break and the hook won't pull if its a good set and your drag is appropriately tight. The rod is supposed to flex, and the more it does the more its helping you, so pull hard enough to get a nice deep bend in it.

I've done stuff I ain't proud of, and the stuff I am proud of is disgusting.

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Here's what I'm understanding:

 

Slow: stiff

Fast: flexible

 

no.

 

either can be stiff or flexible. the difference is in how/where they flex. a fast rod flexes in just the tip section, a slow rod flexes all the way down to the butt section.

I've done stuff I ain't proud of, and the stuff I am proud of is disgusting.

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So you're saying i can point the rod directly at a fish so the rod doesn't bend at all...and there will be the same likelyhood of hooks pullin or line breaking as if i fought it with the rod at a 45 degree angle. Cmon......Softer rods keep fish pinned and protect line from breaking better than stiff rods. Especially with braid. Especially when throwing plugs........It absolutely can be a generalization.

 

A slower action rod will protect light at higher drag settings. Simply because it will act as a better shock absorber

 

No it doesn't. Using your example you are assuming there is power remaining in the rod, ie "it acts like a shock absorber" that implies that the rod is not under full load.

 

Assume a fish is capable of enough force to fully load a rod and there's a locked down drag as well. Assume two rods of equal power, one is fast and one is slow but they are going to break under the same amount of force. The slower rod isn't going to do anything for you at all in that situation. As soon as it reaches it's maximum capacity something's going to give. Now if you want to have a rod that can exceed the maximum amount of expected force that it's likely to face that's a different story, there will be something left in 'reserve' but it's action doesn't matter.

ASMFC - Destroying public resources and fisheries one stock at a time since 1942.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Ba Ba Buoy View Post

I like faster actions for jigging and slower actions for plugging. Fast action keeps you in better contact with the jig and provides a better hookset especially when down deep. Softer action tends to save my shoulder on a long day, prevents the dreaded metal lip tumblings, and makes a pencil dance far more effectively.


+1. 


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I think calling a fishing rod a lever is a bit misleading. It is a spring. It is designed to store and release force on demand.

 

To describe actions, think of the leaf springs on the suspension of a truck. You have one that arches back all the way to the frame, then several that are flat and open. The one with the arch simply stores energy. Each one beyond it is designed to receive and release progressively more force though a spring with a foot. The inner ones are designed to store power and release it slowly. The outer ones store power and release it quickly. A moderate rod resembles the inner spring with a smaller foot and longer spring and a fast rod acts like an outer spring- more foot than spring.

I have become too old to drink bourbon on the rocks. I will still drink it in the parking lot. 

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No it doesn't. Using your example you are assuming there is power remaining in the rod, ie "it acts like a shock absorber" that implies that the rod is not under full load.

 

Assume a fish is capable of enough force to fully load a rod and there's a locked down drag as well. Assume two rods of equal power, one is fast and one is slow but they are going to break under the same amount of force. The slower rod isn't going to do anything for you at all in that situation. As soon as it reaches it's maximum capacity something's going to give. Now if you want to have a rod that can exceed the maximum amount of expected force that it's likely to face that's a different story, there will be something left in 'reserve' but it's action doesn't matter.

 

 

I understand the point that you are trying to make. But I can't agree with it. We both fish quite a bit. We both are knowledgeable. I'll defer to EB's post....as that's the unabridged version of one of the points i was making.

 

But...if me and the fish didn't move. And i gradually pulled. If the force required to move the fish was 10 lbs. Both rods being capable of applying that effort. Then yes you are right. There would be no issue Fast moderat or slow. They would all move the weight with zero risk.....Additionally Assuming each rod is of the same length. The slower rod would put the least strain on the angler.

 

But.

 

Fish move erratically. Drags must be smooth to pay out line (start up inertia is another factor)...Rods must flex to absorb shock while at the same time applying pressure.

 

Look at steelhead rods....very soft to protect light lines and small diamter hooks.

Freshwater "crankbait" rods. Soft slow actions to help keep fish take the bait a bit deeper, and prevent hooks from opening up puncture holes and shacking free.

 

 

Rods designed for daytime swordfishing or Deep dropping extreme depths are very slow and load up close to the reel seat.......all in an attempt to keep hooks from tearing as mentioned above.

 

Tight lines...and great discussion :D

"Panacheless is no way to go through life"

Tims

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I think calling a fishing rod a lever is a bit misleading. It is a spring. It is designed to store and release force on demand.

 

You can call it whatever you want, but a fishing rod is a lever in the classical, literal, and mechanical sense - its very utility as a means of sending a projectile out into the ocean is a function of its being a lever. It might be a "springy" lever, but it ain't a spring.

I've done stuff I ain't proud of, and the stuff I am proud of is disgusting.

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Assume two rods of equal power, one is fast and one is slow but they are going to break under the same amount of force.

 

 

no they aren't.

 

take two rods of the same length made from the same quantities of the same materials that deflect the same amount under a given load and the faster actioned one is going to break first if you keep upping the load. see my post above relating to mechanical advantage and decreasing the effective length of the lever.

 

think about what you do when you want to break your line off - you point the rod towards it. a slow rod flexing into the butt section is, in effect, doing the same thing, tranferrring the load down towards the stronger section of the rod. a fast actioned rod cannot do this and is forced to bear the full load up high, where it is weaker.

I've done stuff I ain't proud of, and the stuff I am proud of is disgusting.

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