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jfish

A Dead Fish by any Other Name...

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This north/south bickering makes us all look bad. Debate the merits of catch and release if you want, but pointing fingers north or south is counterproductive. A lot of stipers are being eaten from North Carolina to Maine, and this is OK with me as long as the fishery is sustainable. A 40 pound striper killed in NC in January would have layed no more eggs in March than a 40 pound striper caught in NY in October.

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Jfish, that's exactly the point I've been trying to make..the one about debating the merits of a position, not debating whether someone is right or wrong for obeying the fish&game laws.

 

Fish Wish, I do have to disagree a little with your position about it being the coldsmile.gif It's more likely an entirely different frame of referrence when it comes to killing stripers. Let me try to explainsmile.gif Down south (NC for instance) the striper fishery is fairly new by the accounts I hear from the NC folks. In NC the red drum is held in high regard and the striper is looked at as a new visitor that tastes great in bread crumbswink.gif

 

In the NE, the striper is all we got...and they are under enormous pressure...and that pressure is increasing every single season. Let me reiterate - they are all we got in the name of sizeable shore caught game fish. We got food fish like scup, fluke, flounder, tog, sea bass, weakfish, bluefish, etc. I classify them as food fish because of their bag limits - 25, 8, unlimited, 10, 25, 14 and 15 respectively. But we really only have 1 fish that is sort of managed as a game fish - limits of (everywhere except NJ) 2 or less per day.

 

So for you guys, the red drum is king, the striper is fer grillin'. That's finesmile.gif For us the striper is king and everything else is fer grillin'. When we see what appears to be others taking the striper for granted and going to extra lengths to kill even more (like keeping and giving away the crew's share to a charter)....it gets some folks a little on edge. It's not the cold, it would get folks on edge even when we're catching fish.

 

Try to consider it a little differently...and with the ocean theoretically warming, it could happen. Lets say next spring it gets real warm - and the red drum storm south to central Jersey...and they like it. Just look how the croaker appeared outta nowhere and is now and expected summer visitor here when I never saw one before. OK, so now we (theoretically) got red drum up here...out the wazoo...and they are a novelty...and they apparently taste good. Well in NJ we can keep 5 over 18" per day w/ one over 27". That's per angler.

 

To continue our scenario and put it in perspective, lets say this new red fish fishery attracts some charter captains. Lets say they can fish 6 guys on their boat. Lets say they make a big deal outta "limiting out" and take lots of photos. Lets say the captain also promotes his business by making it known that his charters go home with the captain and crew's limit as well. And more photos. So now we got charter boats sailing 1 or 2 times a day - they are landing 5 fish per guy X 6 guys in the charter plus 2 more limits of 5 each for captain and mate. Bringing the total of dead red fish to 40. Every day.

 

The final chapter in our look at perspective. One of these charter captains who is well known and liked by the NJ folks starts plastering these photos - with 6 guys holding/standing near 40 dead baby red drum every day - on websites down south with the red drum is king. Lets say it starts some trouble on those websites because people who go to every length to let all their red drum go alive are seeing photo after photo of 6 guys and 40 dead red drum. Are you going to blame the cold weather for their outrage? wink.gif

 

99 percent of the time, things can be best explained or understood by putting yourself in the perspective of the person who is upset.

 

TimS

 

[This message has been edited by TimS (edited 02-03-2003).]

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99 percent of the time, things can be best explained or understood by putting yourself in the perspective of the person who is upset.

 

I'm filing this one under "words to live by".

 

 

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One little mistatement in your scenario Tim. Let's suppose with the fishermen allowed to keep a big fish each 32 of those drum were babies but EIGHT of them were big-shouldered bulls. The same fish the NC guys had to catch and release all spring.

 

I just have a feeling the sight of 8 big bulls flopped dead on a dock day after day would be utterly revolting to the fellas I've had a chance to fish with in NC. Whether or not it would be to the charter boat capts. of our recent acquaintence may be another story.

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Tim S, I understand what you're saying and agree with it completley.

 

I'm from Delaware ... between NE and NC ... between both fisheries ... the cold I was referring to was ME. It hit a balmy 47 yesterday and I fished IRI ... skunk but did see a Seal.

 

I truly do understand how it can raise blood pressures seeing fish piled like cord wood. The percieved lack of understanding about the fishery doesn't help either.

 

 

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You are correct plug, 100% correct. It's not just 32 dead baby red drum, but 8 of the LARGEST kinda red drum...the big bull trophies. Photos of them, every day, dead cause they taste good and cause they aren't "king" in NJ like the stripersmile.gif

 

It's just a different perspective that I hope helps those who just can't understand why some folks are so upsetsmile.gif

 

TimS

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Photos of them, every day, dead cause they taste good and cause they aren't "king" in NJ like the stripersmile.gif

 

It's just a different perspective that I hope helps those who just can't understand why some folks are so upsetsmile.gif

 

TimS

 

I'm starting to get it and am gaining more respect for the big stripers as I learn more about the biology. And I'm sure many went through the moratorium and never want to see that again.

 

I've harvest one big drum in my life - my first in '75. Then I learned they can live to be over 50 years old. I later learned from the ear stones, that I had saved as a trophy, that the fish was 41 years old. That fish had been on this earth 16 years longer than I had when I caught it. cwm24.gif So since then they've all gone back hopefully none the worse for wear.

 

My issue has been with what I perceived as NC getting a bad name when, based on the data, we aren't that big a player in striper harvest.

 

But I do better understand the emotions, even if, IMO they are largely unfounded.

 

 

 

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I still think it is fine to keep legal fish and I thought most ocean fish caught in the northeast generaly are on the big side (by Maryland inland standards). However, some of the charters in NC keep illegal fish. The limit is a possesion limit. You may not take or possess more than two stripers taken on any one day. You cannot take the mate or captain's fish if you already have your limit.

 

Still I doubt that NC fisherman or charters are any less ethical than those in the northeast. Should we condem all NJ fisherman because some tog fishing headboats have no respect for the law?

 

I have fished NC a lot and find a high level of respect for catch and size limits. Less stripers are killed in NC than many other eastern states. The locations and time may be more compressed, but the cold and remoteness keeps the pressure down.

 

jfish

 

 

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Ooohh...BW....yer treading on ground that, being happily married, I wouldn't dream of touching uponcwm31.gifcwm31.gif

 

Yah can't understand emotions and then call them "unfounded"icon25.gif Yikes wink.gif

 

Like I was saying...you guys love the red drum, you value you the big bulls, you do your best to release them alive. You think it might upset you to see photos of 32 dead baby red drum and 8 LARGE bulls - every day? It's hard to imagine some other group of folks reducing to "food fish" what either of use consider to be our local "king" - whether it's stripers or drum ain't important...it's all perspective.

 

No one is giving NC a bad rap. As a state, NC doesn't put a dent in the striper population. It's all about perspective and intentionssmile.gif

 

TimS

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Something I learned from from another site.

 

What equals 44,100,000,000 lbs?

 

Total annual by-catch "DISGARDED" by commercial fleets. puke!

 

Wasted, killed, not used etc...

 

Think about that next time anyone critsizes a "Legal" fish taken by an angler for the table. We are all in the boat here(love of fishing), be respectful, if you don't like it, keep it to yourself. Do onto others ..... If you don't have anything nice to say....

Whatever cliche works.

Peace

 

------------------

Proud RFA member

 

[This message has been edited by henrybasstardo (edited 02-03-2003).]

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NC is a very large producer State which is often forgotten. Along the Roanoke River the communities have put in place provisions that their reservoirs must release water to keep the rivers flowing keeping the eggs suspended. That is pretty conservation minded. I have learned alot about NC and Stripers. Remember their Commercial fishiery has been there for years with some huge fish(up to 125lbs)having been taken.

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As I understand it Tim,the redfish did have a population that migrated to New Jersey,and commercials up there,and poor(mostly NO management) kinda whiped that out.... Many of our fish,from what I can gather are our fish(moving sound to ocean)east to west,so maybe a bad example,even though I get your point. Doubt seriously if I'd have a problem with you catching an killing what the law allows there,no matter what species.. The laws and regs are suppose to be there for the fish.. If those laws and regs aren't right,then the biologist aren't doing the job we paid them for......wink.gif

PS I know what you are getting at,but,I'm hoping the laws and regs are doing thier job,regaurdless of species..... wink.gif

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