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TimS

High frame guides - sell me on 'em

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OK, now that I'm a veteran rod wrapper (been wrapping now for...I dunno....3 months?wink.gif) I've done spinning rods (for myself) with the high frame guides and I've done them with the regular "normal" style guides. I like the look of the "normal" guides better, but that's just me and it's confirmed that I'm odd wink.gif

 

So, somebody please tell me why I should use the high frame guides? What are the differences that would lead me to want the high frame guides? Also, with most slick braids able to shoot through a soda straw, if you are planning on only fishing slick braids, can't you reasonable expect to drop down substantially in guide size? I mean, if a 40 would work for a rod built for mono, a 20 or 25 would be more than enough for a click braid, no?

 

Sorry Al for all the questions wink.gif I'm not gonna ask you yet why the finish on one of the guides on a rod I just did refused to stick to the thread...on one spot, on one guide! I'm guessing I got something on the thread there, it actually repelled the finish...but we'll save that one fer another day wink.gif

 

TimS

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Such questions. You are really asking me to "push the envelope". Seriously though, all i can say is why don't you arrange with Brian Z to try out his new stick with the high-frame guides. Also, while the guides enhance your casting potential, it is critical that they be spaced properly on the blank.

 

As far as the finish not adhering to the thread on one wrap, it probably was due to some thread contamination that is causing a "fish-eye". Here are some tips when thread wrapping to reduce contamination:

 

- always keep your thread spool stored in a dark, dustproof container.

 

- Thoroughly clean the blank with denatured alcohol and paper towels.

 

- When sitting down to wrap, wash your hands every 30 minutes using powdered hand soap like Boraxo to eliminate oil on your hands.

 

- Follow the instructions on finishing in Part 4 of the series of articles.

 

Any further problems just post them.

 

Al

 

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Tim:

 

 

You've been Rod Building three months and already you have tangled with "The Enemy"!

 

The Enemy is Silicone! Silicone is a four letter word in rod building! It repels epoxy and causes nasty fish eyes in the finish.

 

To Avoid the Enemy.... Avoid the following...

 

Monofilament... Contains Silicone. If you wrap a guide after spooling mono w/o washing your hands you will contaminate the thread!

 

Medical Syringes...Contain Silicone...Don't use em'

 

Flyline and flyline dressings... Silicone!

 

Many types of plastic... Contain Silicone... Avoid soft plastic containers, Plastic brushes, Swizzle sticks, and I'll bet some soft plastic lures also contain Silicone. Don't use anything to mix, apply or come in contact with epoxy or rod building thread that you are not sure is silicone free!

 

Good Luck!

 

 

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Yeah Tim.....

 

Stay away from syringes....... wink.gif

 

Use a spoon and just smoke your dope.

 

Personally, I like to lay off of the heroine all together while doing any rod building. It messes up my concentration. wink.gif You may want to consider this.

 

Seahoze

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The resin in some masking tape will make the expoxy fish eye also. It took me two rods two figure it out. The largest guide and the next one up came out fish eyed. I couldnt figure how it happened, I washed my hands avoided plastics. Then while cleaning dust from my wraps on another rod the Masking tape got a good purchase on the thread. I knew right then what made the epoxy fish eye. Hope that helps someone else out.

Good fishing to all...Bruce

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Tim,

 

The reason for high frame guides on spinning rods is to reduce line slap on the blank. This mostly effects the first couple of guides, which is why Fuji's concept system has a couple of high frame guides then quickly drops down to small, low frame guides. If you get Dale Clemens book "Advanced Custom Rodbuilding" it contains extensive information on guide theory. It pre-dates the Fuji concept system, but most of the information still rings (pun intended) true.

 

Domer

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Tim,

 

I got 2 Lami GLBs both equipped with all high frame SiC guides. I love 'em both. I was sold on them back in 1991 by Phil Koenig of Manhattan Custom Tackle who built them for me. He told me it keeps the line from slapping against the blank and gets you more distance. His own rods at that time had them so I tried it out.

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Al,

 

Can we discuss the concept of high frames? Seems to me that the new concept system really speaks to the advantage of using high frames.

 

- high frames reduce line slap coming off the face of the spool. Spool face should line up almost in a straight line with high frame butt guide. This also changes the choke point for the better.

 

- high frames can use a smaller butt guide that channels the line more efficiently, depending on the size of the reel being used.

 

- high frames (new) concept on a shorter spinning rod often go from a 30 to a 16, again with the idea of reducing line modulation as quickly as possible. By the time the line passes through the 16, it's running straight with very little modulation.

 

It appears to me that by using high frames you can achieve many of the benefits of the new concept system.

 

Personally, I like starting with a few high frame guides and then transitioning to regular or low frame guides, as in the new concept system. I like the stability of having lower frame guides in the areas of the blank that flex the most.

 

I'd appreciate your thoughts on this.

 

Regards, Mark

 

 

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Al,

 

I'm looking at your suggested high-frame guide set for a gsb1081m and it looks odd to me near the tip. You suggest 40HH,30H,25M,20M,20 tip.

The centers of the 25M and the 20M are exactly the same height, then there's a 3/4-inch drop to the center of the 20 tip. I'm thinking it would be better to drop gradually to the tip by substituting a regular 20 for the 20M. This way the height would drop a half inch between the last 2 guides then a quarter inch from the last guide to the tip. Then again, I'm pretty much clueless about the workings of these things and I'm thinking you've got a good reason for your selection. Your help, and anyone's help, is greatly appreciated.

 

 

[This message has been edited by john99 (edited 04-29-2001).]

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John,

 

A 20 regular would work. Just do a stress distribution test. The high-frame guides allow you to use fewer guides that will enhance the blank's casting performance. You have another option of going to the high-frame single foot guides as well.

 

Al

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