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Stroth

??SiC Guides Pros Vs. Cons??

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Ok:

 

I know many have covered this question many times before on this board, but I guess I wanted to see if there were new opinions out there.

 

I've got two rods that I built with SiC guides. One is an 8.5 foot spinner and the other is a 1322.

 

Here are the pros as I see them:

 

Slickness---Improved castabilty? I could be hallucinating again, but I swear my casts are further witht he sic.

 

Durability----No groves with braided line

 

Improved feel---Greater sensitivity

 

Cons:

 

Price

 

Brittleness --- I feel the rings are more likely to crack, but it could just be me.

 

Ok folks...What am I missing and ultimately are the SiC's worth the cost?

 

Much thanks and most importantly,

 

Tightlines,

 

Stroth

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I think you basically have it!

More sensitive? Not sure about that one.

More brittle? A bit, but a hardalloy or alconite will crack if you smack it too.

Worth the money?

Without a doubt!!! icon14.gif

Hardalloy will abrade the line and will weaken the shock strength. Is losing a fish and a plug a good value in saving the difference in cost? Not in my book! We fish $500.00 reels on $50.00 rods? I don't get it. (I mean no offense here folks. One reason I make custom tackle is I can't afford my own prices biggrin.gif I did a test with Hardalloy and Sic guides. I tied off 12 lb Ande and locked the drag down. Same rod different guides. I sawed the line back and forth by pumping the rod (like a standstill with a fish) and the hardalloy cut my line in 25-30 cycles. The Sic? I was there for five minutes, hapilly sawing away and waiting for a failure. Never happened, and the line looked okay with a 10x magnification, so I quit. That convinced me!

Mind you, this is my opinion! Can you catch big fish on hardalloy guides and or dime store rods? Without a doubt!

We have all been doing it for years. Am I willing to pull out all the stops when building a rod? You bet!

Happy New Year and GIANT fish for all,

CD

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Is the abrasion from the tip only? I'm new to custom rods, but it seems to me that the most wear and tear on a fishing line would be from the tip, not the intermediate guides, and that Hardloy guides with a SIC tip should work out fine with Fireline and the like.

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The tip and the stripper guide are the most critical, however...

What the heck...

I don't drink much and I'm single at the moment, so,

I buy blanks and guides instead of jewelry and dinners biggrin.gif

CD

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I don't buy the hardaloy abrading the line hooey, do you really think Fuji would sell sandpaper guides? rolleyes.gif . Sic disperses heat better and that's about it.

 

Check out what guide the Left Coast tuna guys choose to battle fish that really stress line, drags, and guides... carbaloy.

 

Your mileage may vary

 

gad

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I knew I was going to get in trouble smile.gif

Not sure if it was heat or not. I was also stressing the line to the max and it was being sawed accross the guides in the same spot, which is not a practical test, but it made the point for me.

Gad, The guides are not sandpaper but definitely no where as smooth as Sic. Sic may dissapate heat better but, they also don't heat up as quickly do to friction!

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Great posts! clapping.gifclapping.gif

 

This is just the sort of stuff I was looking for!

 

I'm going to go SiC the high frame surf ones for my next ditch stick (all star 1209) fish the crap out of it and see if I really notice a difference.

 

I have fished braid on hardloy guides for multiple seasons and I have never noticed a crack--then again I've never looked at the guides under a microscope either.

 

I'd argue that the stripper guides feels the least pressure. When you stress your rod it bends in a curve---the guides should make the line follow that curve. The stripper is at the smallest arc of the curve and as you extend to the tip the arc progresses more. Therefore the amount of pressure on the guides from something stressing the rod is more important from the tip down and not from the stripper out.

 

Then again, I could totally be full of it biggrin.gif

 

Tightlines,

 

Stroth

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Stroh

No doubt sic is a harder and slicker material ring than hardloy. Are they worth the extra money? Only too who ever wants to buy them, or sell them. Are sic guides worth the extra money on a fishing rod? My honest opinion is no. In the past 15 years I have had more sic guides break then any other guide I've built with. Sure I've lost a hardloy ring or two out of the frames, but have never had a hardloy guide show any signs of excessive wear, or begin get grooved lines, while using any of the older abrasive dacron lines, or the new super braids. The sawing motion due to jigging the ditch has to be without a doubt as harsh an environment for guides and line friction as it gets. The tip really takes the brunt of the pressure and friction. Me personally I like carboly tips for jigging, but use Hardloy often with good results. I have in the past had a hardloy tip fail to wear.

 

As for the added distance, I wouldn't count on it on it at all. It's a pipe dream to think you gain distance by using sic guides. Top Distances recorded from all over the world have almost all been made with Fuji aluminum oxide rings, and hardloy. I have spent the extra money on Sic guides for a bunch of tournament rods. I can tell you all of my best numbers have come from Hardloy. Coincidence? Maybe. Point being that guide selection for distance rods is almost meaningless. Any of today's quality guides will get you there.

Hardloy is cost effective and very durable. The cost is about 50-60 bucks to outfit a rod with sic, as opposed to 12 to 15 for hardloy. But once again it all boils down to personal choice with most of this stuff. Big Dave

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I'd argue that the stripper guides feels the least pressure. When you stress your rod it bends in a curve---the guides should make the line follow that curve. The stripper is at the smallest arc of the curve and as you extend to the tip the arc progresses more. Therefore the amount of pressure on the guides from something stressing the rod is more important from the tip down and not from the stripper out.

 

 

Stroth - forget teh way teh rod bends, look at how the line passing through the guides forms an angle. This shows you how muhc pressure each guide gets. The more of an angle the line makes as it passes over a guide, to more pressure. Each rod SHOULD be built so that as the line progrsses down the rod, more pressure is put on the blank. Where do you want more pressure, on the tip section, or the butt?

 

If I could afford to ***** my rods with SIC, I would. I don't see any advantage in a fishing scenario we face here on the East Coast. Functionally, SIC is a better choice if you are going to be fighting fish which make a lot of runs - Tuna. I wouldn't build a Tuna rod with anything other than SIC or Rollers - even if HArdaloy was proven to work fine, I rather spend the extra $$$ on SIC and make sure there will never be a problem.

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Read a good article about a guide shoot out last year. Some of the guides used were the Sic guides, Fuji Hardloy, Mildrum wire, and one or two others I don't remember. Anyhow, the old school Mildrum guides consistently outcasted all the others on equally built rods. Sometimes the most expensive ain't the best.

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WB Do you still have the article ? I would like to look at it. Any idea who wrote it? or who did the accual test? I dont care who casts the rods, the ability to repeat one cast after another impossable to do, unless it was doen by machanical means? Just courious about it. Big Dave

 

[ 01-04-2004, 10:31 AM: Message edited by: Big Dave ]

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The article might be the one the Fisherman mag did in the Jan 24,2002 magazine. It was comparing concept guides to the other types. It's title read "When smaller means longer" If you need info on this , shout me back as I have the article.

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That article was written by John Schauer, aka Fishstix, a surf builder fromerly of Long Island. I didn't buy it for a minute. Schauer was a well known builder with a big following all over the island, though my impression of the work was very "old school". My guess is that he was better at setting up old style rods than he was at paying atention to new guide set up and theory. Just my opinion. His goto guides were PacBay 70 strippers on an 11' stick, just to give ya an idea.

 

As for the SICs/Hardloys, I agree with most, not gonna notice a difference. Canyon, I'd like to see the video of your test biggrin.gif

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