Whigh guide layout would you choose???

[surfrat59]

Need some input on my latest project. 10ft St Croix ESS100M, 1pc, rated 1-4oz.For those of you unfamiliar with this blank I would liken it closely to a GSB1201L Lami.Took 4in off the tip and extended the butt 22in, total length 138in. Stress test shows 5 guides in first 30 inches, after that I can layout either 8 or 9 guides total and notice no difference distance wise when test casting. Leaning towards 8 guides, less weight less friction, not sure if it's optimum, will give both layouts, appreciate some input from those familiar with this style rod. Will be used as long range tin/teaser rod from sand beaches with a 6500 mag elite.All measurements in inches from tip.Size 12 tip-BNLG Fuji's-reel center to butt 32in.

 

8 guide-12-12-12-12-16-16-20-25

4in-9in-15in-22in-30in-41in-55in-72in

 

9 guide-12-12-12-12-16-16-16-20-25

4in-9in-15in-22in-30in-39in-49in-60in-72in

 

In both layouts the reel centerline to butt is 32in and reel centerline to stripper is 34in.

Any advice or input before I wrap would be appreciated.

Half time's over-enough about fishing rods-LETS GO PATRIOTS!

 

 

[gadwall8]

Why run more than one sz16 guide ?

[surfrat59]

Gad, you think I should drop it down to all 12's right after the first 16, interesting, have to tape it up and see...how about the number 8 or 9?

[gadwall8]

It's all about your stress distribution whether you go with eight or nine guides. I doubt (especially w/braid) you would experience any measurable loss of distance.

 

In a couple of weeks, I'm going to re-wrap my 132 1L and will go with Fuji Alconites

[Saltheart]

25-20-16-16-12-12-12-12

 

72-57 1/2 -45 3/16-34 9/16-25 3/8- 17 9/16-10 13/16-5

[canyondiver]

Go with your 9 guide gonfiguration.

One extra guide will do nothing to your cast nor will it add undue friction. In fact, fewer guides with bigger line angles will cause more friction when the rod is under load. Also the extra guide spreading out the forces may keep you from breaking the rod if you really lean on a fish with that braid. However I doubt you will apply enough force to break it either way. That would be a feat in itself.

Oh BTW I've seen Gadwalls rods and you don't want his advice Naah I'm kidding! His stuff looked very nice

I even heard he was using Sic guides on the next rod

CD

[gadwall8]

Pretty mouthy for Saab driving Fire Islander

[canyondiver]

You bet fella!!

[surfrat59]

Thanks for the input guys, greatly appreciated. In a previous post by Zimmy, Salt and Big Dave made mention of a BSVLG30 as a stripper to push it further out and reduce total number of guides...this rod is being built primarily for distance so I think I'll tape it up and test cast it like they say, any last recommendations, and again, thanks.

 

Maybe BSVLG30-BNLG20-16-12-12-12-12 with 12tip

 

 

[Saltheart]

Give it a try but I don't think a 10 foot rod is long enough to benefit from using the BSVLG and pushing it way out. When I use the spinner guide on a conventional , I'm looking to push that first guide out to 40 or 42 inches. The 10 foot St croix just isn't long enough to do that IMO.

 

Best way is to tape them on and try like you said.

Good luck

[Oznavad]

Saltheart,

 

Please explain why you would use a higher frame to push a guide out and what advantage is gained?

[Saltheart]

For longer rods , and I think starting at 11.5 feet , people have developed the practice of using a higher framed spinning guide as the gathering guide for conventional rod. Typical layout for a rod about 12 feet would be a 30 BSVLG , then down to a 25 BNLG or sometimes a 30 BSVLG then a 20 BSVLG then down to a 20 BNLG. All depends on the rod and its flex.

 

Typicall a 12 footer will have the BNLG gathering guide about 32 to 36 inches from the reel. By using a higher framed spinner guide , the line can be kept off the rod both during casting and when loaded fighting a fish , so that the first guide can be pushed way out. I've seen the first guide get moved out to 42 inches by using the higher spinner guide.

 

By psuhing the first guide way out , we reduce the total number of guides needed to cover the rod. fewer guides generally means better casting distance.

 

I didn't come up with this. The practice of using the higher framed spinner guides is seen a lot in rods built for areas like Hatteras where casting distance is very importatnt.

 

Anotehr interesting thing is that in addition to using the hifgher framed spinner guides m many guys pushing for the most distance will turn the guide around so that the single frame leg is towards the reel , rhater than the double legged side like normal. this is donw so that the leaderr knot cannot get caught in the groove where the legs join the ring.

 

Anyway , that's it in a nutshell. I would not consider it on a rod less than 11 feet and likely not even on an 11 fooetr. For real rocket launchers like the Allstar 11'9" and longer heavers , this concept appears to work out well and is a very popular way to build these longer rods with casting distance as the primary concern.

[Oznavad]

Salt,

 

That's interesting, though I guess I'd have to test it to understand it better. To me, it seemed opposite of what I would do. My conventional surf building experience is small compared to my spinning experience. In spinning, the farther the collector, the smaller and lower it can be. A good example is the low riders where the collector is a rather low 20 ring guide that needs to be 47+ inches from the reel. Maybe on a conventional, since the line is on top, you want to keep it further from the blank, further from the reel.

 

Just so I'm clear and can test it, let's look at a blank that I'm going to set up and I know you are familiar with, the 1418. Give me an idea of guides and spacing for both "traditional" and "far-out high frame" set ups.

[gadwall8]

The higher the guides, the longer lever arm that working to torque the rod around.

 

I don't know how high the guides have to be to create a noticeable difference, however, it's just counter intuitive. Perhaps, that's the difference between a casting rod and a fishing rod.

 

Your mileage may well vary,

 

gad

[Oznavad]

gadalls,

when I want an answer from you, I'll ask you