Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Billy 40

Guide Sizes... Why as Why?

Rate this topic

10 posts in this topic

This is a surf rod question, I already know the answer with boat rods. For this SMB thing, the smallest guide I was going to use was a 12, the stripper a 20 or 25 (as requested, will use a 25)

 

Now I have to fill in the blanks. Why does everyone, everywhere, forever - always step down 25-20-16, using 1 or 2 20 & 16's? Why not just drop from a 20 to a 16, to all 12's? I know saving weight on a rod like this won't matter, but what reason, other than that's how everyone else does it, does everyone step down one guide size at a time? Is there some agvantage, disadvantage do this?

 

This is one of those things that really, really irks me, and nobody has come up with a good enough answer for me yet, which leads me to believe there is no reason other than that's how it's always been done.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Billy-

 

I've wondered about this myself, so much so that one of the rods I've done is arranged just as you suggest. Granted, it's an 8'6" blank but it's a Lami CSB 1022L for use around rocks and the like. smile.gif Guides are 20, 16, and six 12s. Stress test was money. smile.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Billy , I think is has to do with creating a gradual funneling effect .Most of the funneling is done by the stripper guide so I don't think it will matter that much what size the second guide is .The fuji low riders disprove the need for this gradual funnel requirement .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think if you have no leader knot passing through the guides , It doesn't matter. get down to as small as possible as fast as possible. If you do have a knot to pass through the guides , i think the slower chpke and larger final sizes near the tip are better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with the funneling thing, looks better too! The line ripping off a conventional with a 2" spool width may want to be funneled gradually. Try out some test casts and see what happens.I'd do it myself but the last time I tested, I dented my neighbors siding!LOL for me! Use a 16 ring tip so that the line clears that last 6" without having to take a turn to the south.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would have to agree with you on the size of the guides. It seems that the concept of guide sizing is in a constant state of flux. When the New Concept guide system came out there was a specific placement and sizes of guides i.e. choke guide and its position. If you look at Fuji's new set up for concept guides no mention of the choke guide is made, same goes for their Low Riders. I think it is valid to assume that they realize that it is the first guide (stripper) that does the choking, after that the line is fairly staight. I saw a slow motion tape of a cast and this seems to be borne out. I do feel that you can build the rod the way you want and really not effect performance to a great degree (as Saltheart said the knot must pass freely through the guide) beyond that I think it is mostly looks and convention that dictate what the rod looks like.

Reversing the first guide(double feet towards tip) can help the cast by reducing tangling. Stress disribution and trial cast usually eliminate potential problems, beyond that use your common sense.

For me the all the science that has evolved concerning rod building has been a great tool to have, some gets used ,some does not. It is a far cry from when I started fishing on Duxbury Beach and the Canal with my dad ,using a cane pole with three guides, dacron line and a squidder... and we caught fish.

I'm 55 now, and when it comes to rods and rod building, I have learned that if the builder is truly sincere in his building and is willing to listen what other have to say and uses his common sense, he can't go to far wrong, because this all add up tp improvement.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i just did a GSB1321M with 25/20/16/12s on out to the tip. worked great! all casting was done with a squidder by someone who knows how to cast.

this weekend i tried a similar guideplacement on a glass SB1363M-2 that has been my guidec placement nightmare for a month now. did not work nearly as well with the parabolic action on the glass rod. that particular rod NEEDS an extra 20 and/or 16, otherwise 2 more 12s need to be added.

as it is i can get away with 10 guides if i go 25/20/20/16/16/12s on out, but i need 12 guides if i go 25/20/16/12s on out.

so: bendy rods need it sometimes, but on stiff, fast graphite rods ill go as small as possible as soon as possible.

aaarggh. this SB is driving me nuts! ive built 2 rods in the time its taking me to place the guides on this 8+bait noodle rod.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

NYCMAN, on that 1363m try BSVLG25-20-16 then step down to 4 or maybe 5 BNLG12. The extra height on the spinning guides lets you push the stripper way out, in some cases as far as 48in. Push that stripper out as far as possible and stress test for placement of the others, 7 or 8 guides total will work, it's worked nicely for me in the past. Never had a problem passing a 40 or 50lb shock leader through the BNLG12, and they're almost as tall and less bulky/heavy near the tip than a BNLG16. Test cast it and see...

 

biggrin.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is no reason to drop down through each guide size and the same "funneling" effect can be had even if you go from a #40 directly to a #8. Remember, guides are not stacked next to each other on a rod - there is plenty of space in-between.

 

The magazine has covered this very scenario many times. It is not necessary to use all the various guide sizes. The important thing, is to plot the proper line path and then select, size and place the guides so that this line path is maintained.

 

Guide sizing and placement should conform to the preferred line path - don't ask the line to conform to your guide sizing and placement. That's backwards and won't get you the most performance possible.

 

........

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to register here in order to participate.

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.