Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
labrax

info on some older fiberglass rods

Rate this topic

14 posts in this topic

I was hoping that I could get some additional information on some rods that I was fortunate enough to get recently. These rods are already finished, so the collectible tackle forum maybe the more appropriate section, but in the past I have received some great info here - so I thought I'd ask.

 

I just got 5 rods that I think date from the 70's - they are all fiberglass and range from 10 - 11' in length. 4 of the rods were custom built by Red Top. Two are similarly honey colored and two are white blanks, the one other rod by Murat is also honey colored, but different than the others. The person who owned them is deceased and must have been some angler - his widow does not know about the rods, but the brief stories she relayed to me and the trophies that he has lead me to believe he was one serious fisherman.

 

They were wrapped for conventional reels and with wire guides. The 5th rod states that it was a custom built Murat rod and it is stouter than the other four and may have had a portion of the tip broken off. None of them have reel seats and have a sandpaper like grip that is similar to the cork tape grips of today. The longer rods all seem capable of throwing 3+ oz.

 

I feel very fortunate to receive these rods and can't wait to give them a shot. I may need to rewrap at least one or two of them as the guides on at least one are suspect. I have a 7000c3 that would seem to fit the larger rods and a 6501 for the smallest rod. I am wondering if they are 70's vintage rods - if the white ones are built on older Lamiglas blanks? The color of the honey colored blanks is slightly different than the Fenwick fiberglass blanks I have, so I wonder if they are older Lamiglas blanks as well. Does anyone here have a contact at Red Top that may have been around then. I'd love to contact them to see if they have any info on what they were building back then. Does anyone know of rods done by Murat? I am not looking to evaluate these for sale - I just would like to know what they are for my own curiostity.

 

Thanks for your time - any info would be great. Please PM me if you would like.

 

Thanks,

 

Pete

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Those rods could easily date from the 60's; Red Top and Murat were both turning out loads of rods back then. I bought the one Murat I still have - a 9'-0" spinner - in Orleans in the late sixties. There's a nice profile of Charlie Murat, with much reference to his rod building, in Frank Daignault's "Twenty Years on the Cape: My Time As a Surfcaster"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bill & Ditch,

 

Thank you both for the information. This is why I love this site so much and why this is one of my favortite forums.

 

The amount of information that I get from reading the posts in the rod building, lure building and main forums is tremendous.

 

Thanks again,

 

Pete

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Post a picture. In those days they has honey color

lami blanks and before that dark brown.Then after the white blanks (70's) came.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Red Top built most of their conventional customs at 10'4", with a plain cork tape (no reel seat) butt section. Most of them were built from cut-down 11-1/2' Lamiglas blanks. Mostly the old 1164 and 1165 blanks, which under the blank model numbers that Lami uses today, translate to 136 2F and 136 3M blanks. Red Top kept their own product codes for their customs even after Lami relabeled the blanks. If the finished rod was cut from an 1164 blank, the Red Top custom would be labeled either a 4L (if it was cut all from the butt) a 4M if it was trimmed from both, or a 4H if it was cut all from the tip. Rods built from an 1165 blank were labeled 5L, 5M or 5H depending on how they were cut. To the extent that Red Top has any pre-made fiberglass customs on the rack for sale today, they likely use the same product codes. If it's a 4-whatever, I would guess it's built from a 136 2F blank, and if it's a 5-whatever, it's built from a 136 3M.

 

Charlie Murat used a very hard grip material--cork based, but it would feel almost like wood after it wore in a little. He used a hard pointed butt cap, as opposed to the standard crutch cap or mushroom caps that Red Top used. After he died and his son-in-law Dave Hammock took over the business, Murat rods used standard cork tape and mushroom butt caps.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

lamiglass blank 1164 was a 11 1/2 med tip for throwing worms 1165 was a faster tip for throwing plugs I still have them. 136 2F and 136 3M blanks are 13 1/2 ft. blanks 2f is fast for plugs 3m medium for worms.The 13 ft. blanks came out at a later date.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have to clean the rods up and then take a picture of them to post. They have been sitting in a storage shed and/basement for years and have accumulated quite a bit of dirt and grime on them.

 

All of the rods have what seems to be a cork wrapped butt that seems very abrasive - almost like a wrapped sandpaper/cork grip. All of the rods have a rubber crutch butt cap on them.

 

Thanks for the additional details - everyone has been very helpful and informative.

 

Pete

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's the handle sections on my nine foot Murat which was built by the the old master himself. The grip material he was favoring then was as DJ described, and commonly referred to as "Neo-cork" grips although the percentage of real cork (if any) in the compound must have been very low. Tough stuff for sure, it lasts about forever though a bit on the heavy side; it was one of the earliest synthetic rod grip materials. This one does however feature a typical crutch tip type buttcap and it's definitely original.

 

Murat9.JPG

Murat9a.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
lamiglass blank 1164 was a 11 1/2 med tip for throwing worms 1165 was a faster tip for throwing plugs I still have them. 136 2F and 136 3M blanks are 13 1/2 ft. blanks 2f is fast for plugs 3m medium for worms.The 13 ft. blanks came out at a later date.

 

No, that's not correct. The 136 blanks are 11-1/2' blanks (actually, 136" or 11'4"). I only own about 7 of them, and unless they shrunk 2 feet while being shipped from the factory, they're 11-1/2' or thereabouts.

 

The 1164 is today's 2F and the 1165 is today's 3M.

 

Here's the old/new conversion chart:

 

1163=136 2M

1164=136 2F

1165=136 3M

1166=136 4M

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The 1164 is today's 2F and the 1165 is today's 3M.

 

 

 

Here's the old/new conversion chart:

 

 

 

1163=136 2M

 

1164=136 2F

 

1165=136 3M

 

1166=136 4M

 

 

 

Just did a search for "Murat" and found this post. I recently bought a pair of 9' conventionals wrapped at Murats around 1990. One is white glass and the other is black and the original owner said it was sold to him as an early graphite. Both 9' conventionals, both Lamis. These must have been done by Dave Hammock. They are not marked MURATS, but the guy Igot them from had them built there. Both are nice rods. The black "graphite" acts more like a glass rod than any graphite I have ever used. Both have cork wrap, rubber butt caps cane type, fuji components.

 

 

 

I also have a rod that I had re-wrapped. It is a honey Lami and the blank number is "0903". I contacted the factory and was told that thier records don't go back that far. I am wondering if Ditch Digger might have a conversion on that blank. DD, if you see this and have info, any help appreciated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Those conversions actually came originally from my archives; I first posted those in response to DJ looking for some info years ago.

Your 0903 was renumbered by Lami as the BT1083M. I don't have any recent Lami catalogs handy just now but I expect that one's been dropped, though probably not too long ago.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Your 0903 was renumbered by Lami as the BT1083M. I don't have any recent Lami catalogs handy just now but I expect that one's been dropped, though probably not too long ago."

 

 

 

Once again... Thanks Bill.

 

 

 

It is in the 2004 catalog. Very interesting. This is the blank that I found nailed to a porch post with a wind sock tied to the tip guide. I had it re-wrapped spinning surf rod, stainless guides, cork wrap, no reel seat. That is the way it apeared to have been done originally by a shop in Providence, RI. Would it have been usual to use a boat and trolling blank as a surf balnk as well? It is a nice rod for 1-3 oz and I use it quite a lot. If it was originally designed as a boat and trolling blank, they sure fooled me. Thanks again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to register here in order to participate.

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.