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zimmy

guide angle issue

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Building an arra 1205 spinning. Planned on using BHVLG 40hh 30h 25h 25m 20m. I placed the guides on for test casting, etc. and it looks like the angle from the 20m guide to the top is much too great. In other words the 20 guide sits quite high off the blank compared to the top. Now, it is currently only a 12 ring top since that was the biggest I had in my box. I plan on getting a pst w/a 16 ring. Will this alleviate the angle or do I need to add a 16L guide. Thanks

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Traditionally, your top shouldn't be smaller than your smallest guide, and a lot of times one size bigger is needed for things to line up correctly.

 

Why the ginormous guides anyway??? 40-30-25-25-20 is freakin huge!

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I'm really into small guides - just think they have a lot of plusses (light, better/faster blank recovery, less torque, straighter line path...) and few minuses. My last build, a 8'6", had 25-16-10-8-8-8-8-8tip, and throws amazingly well. I'm sure a lot of guys will disagree with me, but there are definite disadvantages to large guides, but what are the advantages? Just my take on it.

 

Either way, without question, don't put a 12 tip after a 20!

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The 12 tip wasn't planned to be on there permanently, but the question is will there still be a large angle with the 16 top. I know plenty of rods have been built with a similar setup smile.gif ... Any one?

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I personally like the bigger guides too. I've found that some 16 ring guides "stand off" from the rod farther than others, so I order from different makers, and sometimes use a boat guide on a spinning rod so it lines up better. I guess what I'm trying to say is you can't have too many tops of different types. One thing that I found works better is to have the tip size to match the last guide size.

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I gotta agree with EB, those are some huge guides for the middle of that rod. I'm not the biggest fan of the "CONE OF FLIGHT" theory (that bigger guides= less friction) I have found that most rods built using that old theory have MORE friction due to line slapping the blank. If your using a reel with a large spool I would use 40hh-25h-16h-12-12. The rod will be much lighter and will recover faster, also the line would be under control at the 25h so your casts will be more accurate. This is just what I have learned in my 6 years of rod building, so it's not set in stone how a custom should be built, it is a custom and it should fit YOU!!!

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How far is the first guide from the tip top? I would also go with a 16 or 20 tip with that guide setup. I have built rods where the last guide was a 20 before the top, the guide probably needs to be moved back a bit.

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Find myself agreeing with ABHarvey yet again.

 

If you place large guides near to the end of your spinning blank you are going to put excess weight where you least want it. Heavy guides near to the tip will tend to cause a torquing effect on the blank, will slow down the blanks recovery rate when casting and the rod will feel sluggish. A size 16 tip top is big a twenty is massive and not needed even on beach caster throwing 10 ounuces.

 

You will almost certainly get more line wrap around your tip top and size 20 guide if you fit them due to rod twist.

 

I agree with EB that normally you should fit the next size up on the tip top to your first running guide but if your first running guide was dropped to say a size 12 that would mean a size 16 tip top and I still think that is too big.

 

So my suggestion is think about a size 12 tip top and work back from there.

 

Here is a suggested ring set.

 

25 20 16 12 12 12 12 tip top 12.

 

or

 

30 25 20 16 12 12 12 Tip top 12

 

or the one I would personally use

 

25 20 16 12 10 10 10 tip top 12.

 

You will be going against tradition and old theories but trust me you will cast just as far and the rod will,feel crisper and more sensitive. You will be able to cast lines up to say 50lb in Power Pro no trouble at all.

 

Your call

 

Regards

 

Mike Oliver

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Interesting stuff... I wouldn't have thought the guides I chose including the 40h would be considered cone of flight theory. I always thought that applied more to the days of 75mm wire guides. It was my understanding that high guides with smaller rings (40 being smaller than 75) were created to replace the big guides that were close to the blank. I.e. a 40 hh to replace a 75 wore or bsvlg 50. I always appreciate other ideas and consider them. Thats why I asked the question smile.gif . I should mention that the rod is gettign matched to a 706Z w/ minimum of 30 lb fireline or 65lb powerpro. This guide setup is a first for me and it came from a variety of discussions on this board and others over the years where the builders and users were very happy with casting and action of the rod with this guide selection. I am not sure I like it... I would consider moving the guide farther back off the tip, but prefer to have the support of a guide relatively close to the tip. THanks for the replies and if you have anything else to add I am interested in hearing more.

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How far is the first guide from the tip top? I would also go with a 16 or 20 tip with that guide setup. I have built rods where the last guide was a 20 before the top, the guide probably needs to be moved back a bit.

 

I think right now its at about 6"

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Zimmy. I agree with you. The 40HH set up is a good set up for a non specific line reel combination. It will work well with braid or mono.

The blank rigged as spinning will not have any twist effect as the guides are on the bottom of the blank. Using the " cone of flight" method was for the 75mm guides and almost always resulted in some line slap,(I still have people ask me to build this way, no matter how hard I try to talk them out of it) just a product of the system. NERBS did some test casting on several types of guide systems and if I recall the 40HH didn't fair too badly. The "low rider" set up uses a 20mm guide as the butt guide and the line is firther choked from there. There was a blank built with a 25mm butt (not low rider) that casts very well and could be used with spin or conventional. I find that the smaller butt guide set ups more suitable for braid and you really need to set the system up for a specific reel.

Just my $.02

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BHVLG 40HH, then BSVLG 30 , 25 , 20 16. Tip should be a PST 16 or 20.

 

People make a big deal of the extra 10 yards or less they may get on a concept rod. I would call the concept a way to make "casting rods"

 

If you want a "fishing rod" many benefits come with the larger guides.

 

I have a XRA 1205 conventional rod I built using the Concept guide layout about 5 years back. I often curse myself for having done so. Them tiny guides are the biggest PITA when fishing IMO.

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