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stlRivercat

Believe Fuji's New Concept advertising?

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Fuji promotes using more & smaller diameter guides in their "New Concept", and this is supposed to help with casting distance. I also heard somewhere a rule like "For an X foot rod use X+1 guides + tip". However in previous posts it is recomended I use less guides.

 

I'm not second-guessing anybody, but do you guys agree with this new-concept stuff or is it just a way to sell more guides?

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Erik, Low Riders have nothing to do with Fuji's "New Concept" really. The one similarity is the quick choke design of the LRs.

 

Cat, the concept stuff is good in certain applications. Technically, it has some merit. For surf rods, I don't think it has much use, which is why you'll hear guys using fewer guides still for surf rods.

 

The basic premise is to use more, small guides rather than few larger guides used in the standard "cone of flight" theory. The idea is to quickly choke the line down to to a very small guide and run it out to the tip thru a bunch of small guides.

 

The good - less weight near the tip of the rod, resulting in better sensitivity and truer rod action, and theoretically better recoil. Claimed to add distance and accuracy, which I can't prove or disprove.

 

The bad - a lot of annoying little guides for your line to wrap on during certain activities, particularly popping. This is my problem with the new concept on surf rods. I have some, rarely use them.

 

Is it a ploy to sell more guides? I doubt it.

 

Has it resulted in the development of a better range of Fuji guides? Definitely.

 

Is it good for surf rods? Not in my opinion. Major issues are line tangle on little guides and I don't like anything smaller than a 16 tip and last guide on a surf rod, unless I'm using low riders, where I'll saccrafice them for the noticed advantages.

 

What's it good for? Not a bad thing for freshwater sticks.

 

Should you learn and understand it? Definitely. Understanding how the concept works will help you better set up rods and incorporate some of it's benefits, and develop some "hybrid" set ups of your own.

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Have a bit experience with this and have found the following(1)The New Guide Concept(NGC) is valid but I believe over-rated when it comes to increased casting dist.there is some increase but nothing to get"worked-up"about.(2)Using more smaller guides really does improve sensativity,physical balance,"feel",and has less action changing effect than if U were using all 2 legged guides;not so noticable if U were already using heavier framed single legged guides.(3)Using the NGC on a rod that you'll be shaking Pencil Poppers with is probably asking for tip/guide wraps if using braid(thats the reason for the Low Riders).With mono you might be ok but the softer the mono the better your chances for problems.

I think that something we,I include me in this too, tend to over-look is that a properly guided rod that is properly balanced with line,reel,lure/bait will,in the hands of a competent fisherman,cast further that is practical when it comes to its length and ones ability to control said lure/bait not to mention a fish.In other words we can cast further than we can control what's at the end of the line.I reckon it comes down to ones ability and confidence in it and what works well for the individual fisherman.

Remember this:Fuji usually does its homework and then some but that homework also includes "market studies" along with the Hi-Tech goodies.They wouldn't build it if they didn't think it would sell but they also wouldn't last long if they got caught schmoozin us either.Good Luck, Neil

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Phile - while the Low Riders aren't xactly what the New Concept is, if you use 5 size 10 guides on teh tip, it is the same thing. THe line wrappig arounfd the guides apparantly is no longer an issue with the frame design of the Low Riders. But I'm just a boat fisherman who know nothing but theory.

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Properly implemented, the New Guide Concept will outcast and outperform any other guide set-up. I get to talk to and see the rods of so many other custom builders and I can tell you that 95% of those who believe they are utilizing the New Guide Concept, aren't.

 

The key is not using more guides, the key is using the correct number of guides, which may be one or perhaps two more than what is common with the old Cone of Flight System. Having smaller guides on the tip allows more of the energy you impart to the rod to be used for casting the lure or bait rather than for starting and stopping the rod. This is the #1 reason the New Guide Concept achieves greater distance and less angler fatigue.

 

I've been working with this system since it was introduced (Fuji didn't invent it, but they did coin a neat name for it) and can tell you that if you just pluck the specs off the Fuji website or literature you'll be very dissappointed. But if you take the time to learn the "how and why" behind the system you can improve the casting distance of any rod you now have.

 

One last thing - using the Fuji Concept Guides does not automatically create the New Guide Concept System. You can use this system with any guides as long as they fullfill the requirements for correct line path.

 

..............

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"Is it good for surf rods? Not in my opinion. Major issues are line tangle on little guides and I don't like anything smaller than a 16 tip and last guide on a surf rod, unless I'm using low riders, where I'll saccrafice them for the noticed advantages."

 

On a properly implemented New Guide Concept surf rod, the smallest guides you'd use on such a rod would, in fact, be size 16's.

 

The New Guide Concept is not a rigid system of certain guides sizes and styles that must be used, rather it is a concept of creating proper line paths and selecting the smallest and lightest guides that will perform the required task (in some cases, this might be a size 16, in other cases, a size 6).

 

.................

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"Should you learn and understand it? Definitely. Understanding how the concept works will help you better set up rods and incorporate some of it's benefits, and develop some "hybrid" set ups of your own."

 

Tom, nice to see you here. I think we're on the same page as far as how to utilize the underlying theory behind the concept system. I guess my problem would lie with Fuji's "sample specs", when applied directly, which aren't what I need in a surf rod in particular.

 

I use your theory of "the fewest, smallest to do the job properly". When applied to surf rods, I never considered it to be a "true concept" set-up, but it's definitely a diversion from old school surf sticks. Maybe my understanding of what one considers the concept system is too rigidly associated with those Fuji specs.

 

I know you've built a lot of surf rods in your time (used to be your specialty, if I'm not mistaken). I would (I'm sure others would too) find it quite helpful if you could give us an idea of a "typical" set up for a spinner built on a blank like an XRA 1322 or a GSB132 1M that you would wind up with using your method.

 

Billy, you used 5 10's on Eriks rod?

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Well, I guess I've built a "few." For one thing, whenever someone told me that they'd be throwing more than 4 or 5 ounces of lure and bait, I really did my level best to steer them towards baitcasting equipment. The very things that make spinning gear so great for some things, make it less than optimum for others, such as throwing heavy sinkers and bait. There are just certain limitations you can't overcome when you put spinning gear into that particular venue. Sure, you can do it, but you can almost always do it better with casting gear once you reach a certain point.

 

I have used the New Guide Concept with very good results on spinning rods by combining the SVSG and NSG guides on the same rod. I usually make the first few guides of the SVSG variety and use the NSG for my choke/intersect guide and running guides. This is a very durable set-up and still gets some weight off the tip. The sizes and placement depend on your handle and reel. The last one I did took: SVSG 40, 30, 25, 20, NSG 16, 16, 16, PST 16. On a bit lighter rod I had finished previously, I found the best set-up to be: SVSG 40, 25, 16, NSG 12, 12, 12, 12, PST 12. It just depends on your particular blank, handle and reel.

 

In a Fall issue of the magazine, we're going to do an in-depth article on surf rods - anything and everything you can think of pertaining to their design, construction and use. Very similar to what was done on Stand-Up rods in the last issue of 2002.

 

The very term, "surf rod" entails perhaps the greatest variety of rod styles and types in all of fishing.

 

............

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OK I'm learning I'm learning.. I thought when he said "more & smaller diameter guides" that the low-riders fit that profile.. My bad..

 

Carry on

 

ErikT smile.gif

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OK I'm learning I'm learning.. I thought when he said "more & smaller diameter guides" that the low-riders fit that profile.. My bad..

 

Carry on

 

ErikT smile.gif

 

Don't let the "rod nazis" get ya down bro icon14.gif

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These guys are scary .. cwm31.gif

 

Sorry bout yesterday bro.. Went from Soccer game screaming at the kids again right to my roof to tar and paper the leaky skylights! Good thing we had a 12 pack of heineken's up there.. wink.gif Billy was out watching Elke catch fluke again.. biggrin.gif

 

ErikT

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Tom,

I look forward to the next RodMaker issue, as I do every issue.

 

For those of you that don't know who Tom is- if you build rods, think about building, or just like to know, I'd pay attention to everything he says. Though we've never met, Tom has been the single biggest influcence on my rod building by far. The quantity and quality of rod building information that he provides through his magazine(Rod Maker), his website, and his book is staggering. If you don't subscribe to his magazine, I strongly advise you sign up.

 

Sorry for sounding like a the Tom Kirkman Fan Club president wink.gif , but he's that good.

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I don't believe I'm that good - I've just made a lot of mistakes over the years and have a pretty decent idea of what you don't want to do in many of these situations. Like many rod builders, I learned the hard way - by making mistakes.

 

 

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