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Sage TCX 7126 best lines for 2 hand overhead casting...

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I'm trying to figure out what would be the best set-up for mostly OH casting on the south side of Cape Cod from the beach. Rio recommends the Outbound 9 wt. line (375 grains) for the Sage TCX 7126. I am thinking of starting with an intermediate line as the first line for this rod.

 

Another option that seems to be recommended is a Skagit head between 520-560 grains. When a tip is added to that, you would be overhead casting in excess of 600 grains. That's quite a difference in payload between 375 and 600+ grains. Do I need to scale back the size of the Skagit head and tip for overhead casting? Should the Outbound line be increased in weight to a 10,11 or 12 weight or add a versitip or a MOW tip to further load the Outbound 9 weight. The more research I do, the more I seem to get confused, since some people are talking about spey casting the Skagit head and not overhead casting.

 

I would sure welcome any advice on what you've found to be the best set-up for overhead casting the Sage TCX 7126.

 

Thanks for the help.

 

TIM

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Tim,

 

You have a 7wt Spey rated rod. Trust RIO on their line recommendation for OH casting. Its not the same as for Spey when you will need a heavier line as all you have to load the rod is the D loop.

 

If you try and cast 500+ grains OH on your rod you are totally overloading it and it will just collapse. Why would you want to do that?

 

I would personally only fish a skagit line if I had no choice. Skagits are designed first and foremost for water anchored Spey casts not OH. With your 7 wt Rod you can work with decent head lengths of 37.5 feet with RIO's OB lines. You also have a choice of floater, Intermediate and fast sink. You can also look at other line makers as there plenty of std Long Belly WF lines out there in the 375grain sizes.

 

I would stay away from short head lines as in 30 feet. You will get way better performance with longer heads especially with a TH. I don't like short heads even on SH rods.

 

But don't put 500 grains load onto your rod.:(

 

Mike

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You would be doing a great disservice to yourself if you follow rios recs and mikes recs. This rod can EASILY cast well over 550 grains overhead. I fish this rod primarily now and I have 4 different line set ups that are all working for me. 30' of t-17(510 grns), airflo beach int 11-12 (550 grns), 525 skagit short w/11' t-14 (679 grns), and skagit ext 560 int w/ 11' t-14 (714 grns). As you can see theres a big difference in grain weight but dont be afraid of going big. 375 is laughable and a joke. Why have an $800 rod if you are not going to use it to its full potential? It's called the Death Star for a reason.

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Thanks guys for all your replies.....WOW!....This is why I've been so confused with all the searches I've been doing. Based on on your responses, the Sage TCX 7126 will handle a large range of line weights. I've only had the rod a couple of days now and until later in the summer , I'll only be able to lawn cast it. I have the OBS intermediate lines in 9 & 10 weight. I've tried both of these and I think I like the 10 weight better so far. These lines only have the 30' heads and for rods 12' and longer it is suggested that the regular Outbound with the 37.5' head may be a better choice....I've been thinking that maybe I would get a Outbound 37.5' head as the next line, but now I'm thinking should it be the 11 or 12 weight since some of you guys are using much heavier weights overhead casting on this rod.

 

Then there is the Skagit setup for overhead and I'd also like to experiment with that. My brain is overloaded for this evening. I think I'd better give it a rest until tomorrow.

 

Thanks, jnicosia, Mike O., Mike Z, and JrzFlyGuy for your help....I sure need it!

 

Tim

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Tim, where did you see the Rio recommendation for a 9 wt OB for this rod? Via the "Line Selector" app on Rio's web site? 375 gr doesn't sound right from all of the comments I've seen about the Sage.

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This is an interesting one for me after reading JrzFlyGuy's post. Taking JFG's experiences to be right then one can only come to the conclusion that Sage have vastly underated this rod. A 7wt Spey line depending on the Belly length ranges from 300 to 650 grains Source RIO's web site. OH casting the line mass is a lot less.

 

550 grains falls in the middle for a 10wt Spey line. I don't cast 550 grains OH on a 10wt Rod. I cast 550 grains on a rod rated for 11-12wt (Spey rating).

 

For strong OH casting based on rod specifications alone then 500 grains is over the top for a 7wt rated Rod.

 

There is an apparent disconnect with the recommendation of RIO verses JFG and Sage's rod rating.

 

Solution? If you are a competant OH caster its quite easy. Try and borrow heavier lines than the OB 9wt which are 375 grains and this is the line RIO suggested for this rod in their chart and make a direct comparison and see which lines the rod handles best for you. Try and do this on the lawn first and then on the beach. Lawn alone is just not real enough.

 

Personally I don't like rods to be very deeply loaded others do but make sure the rod is not overloaded as an over loaded rod will just not perform well for you and will not cast well into a breeze.

 

Faced with this I would be putting in a call to Sage I think and get their view. Tim, please don't take this the wrong way but once you have gained a bit of experience and are able to cast around the 100 feet mark with a TH then all of this will become very clear to you. If you are still very much at the front end and it kinda sounds that way not quite as easy to resolve. Mind if you fish SH rods already that should help you evaluate the situation.

 

I would not right now start playing with skagit lines which are meant for water anchored spey casts primarily. I only use skagit when I need lines weighing more than 510 garins which is the heaviest RIO OB lines you can buy currently. Sure Skagits can cast fine OH but for two lines of the same weight give me an RIO OB 37.5 foot head over a skagit any day of the week.

Try not to get too confused it should not be too hard to sort out.

 

Mike

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GregPavlov,....Yes Greg, its was in Rio's 2013 Spey Line Recommendations Chart. Also in Rio's Understanding Spey Lines tutorial under Other Style "Spey" Lines, they mention Outbound lines for overhead casting and uplining 1-2 line sizes for 2 hand rods. They also say that the Outbound Short lines with the 30' head are a better choice on shorter spey and switch rods of less than 12'. I've been lawn casting the OBS 9 and 10 weight lines and I like the loading of the 10 weight better. Though I haven't tried an Outbound line with a 38' head yet, it sounds like that may be best for this length (12'6") of rod. From the responses I'm getting, I'm not sure if the Outbound 38' head would be best in a 10 weight (425 grains), an 11 weight (465 grains), or the 12 weight (510 grains).

 

Mike O., I think that I will heed your advice and stay with the Outbound 38' head at this stage in my learning curve. Now I just need to figure which weight to try next.

 

JrzFlyGuy, Thanks for your recommendation. I've seen from other posts that Henry Cowen also uses a 520 grain SA Skagit Extreme Intermediate head on this rod. Have you tried the Outbound 12 weight at 510 grains on your TCX 7126?

 

Thanks,

 

TIM

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Tim,



I went through this same thing a few months ago with the Z 8129 and still experimenting.  Number one tip: Try different stuff.  You are going to get a wide range of recommendations.



 



I'll agree that short heads dont perform that well alone.  If you throw a skagit, try it with a tapered tip  like the ones used on Rio versi-tip lines.



 



Spey rods have a huge window of what "loads" the rod.  Try stuff and find something that cast the way you like.  Another tip contact Andrew Moy at his shop.  He'll give some suggestions as well, OH and spey recommendations.



 



BTW, that 8129 is rated for a 10wt outbound, still need to cast one of those...  With a 520 INT skagit extreme and 105 grn 15ft tip, I popped 130ft ... I think the rod is overloaded when OH and I am going to try some other lighter lines. 



 



Good luck. 



Chris


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I know I am going to catch hell from Mike O and a few others but on my TCX 8119-4 I use a 560 grain Sci Ang Skagit Extreme 23' head with a 10 foot tip, either INT or T-14. This is in front of my .030 shooting line. All I need to do is roll cast the head, bring it off the water, throw it in the air behind me and let it go forward. Once you get the timing down, it is not difficult to get down to the backing. I am satisfied chucking my flies an easy 110 feet with less than ideal conditions with this rod, line combo.

 

Don't be afraid of a Skagit head around 500 - 520 grains for that rod.

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Spigs,

 

You will not get any hell from me. Just surprise with your line choices and weights.:)

 

I just don't get whats going on here at all. If Sage has rated their rods correctly both in the 7 and 8 wts I am a very surprised that they cast well with lines of 500 grains plus OH style. A 10wt Spey rod I would not put 550 grains on it OH but a 7 or 8wt ?

 

I cast very fast and stiff rods rated at 11-12 and more and I don't like much more than 550 grains and these rods are designed as out and out fast action OH rods. Not an ounce of Spey in them.

 

Providing you really know what you are doing casting wise then matching your line to your rod is very much a personal thing within reason. But you can under cook and and over cook it. The wind and surf will tell you when you have it down right. A lawn will let you get away with a lot and is not to be relied on in my experience when testing a rods capability.

 

I have seen a tendancy for some Guys to over load FW Spey Rods for OH casting in a beach envoirament with a loss of performance as a consequence.. I would rather cast a rod that was slightly underlined as that will maintain the rods ability to recover from flex very well and have enough in reserve when you have to push the rod when faced with a bit of wind.

 

Mike

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One possible factor in all this, Mike, is that it is very likely that you are a better caster than most (definitely me, anyway...). I believe that it's always been true that for most people who are not great casters, and especially beginners, a moderate or moderate/fast action rod is easier to cast than a fast action rod of the same rating using a line that is within the specs of that rating. So as fast rods became more and more popular, lots of us bought them and immediately overlined them by a step or two, turning them into less-than-ideal moderate/fast rods. I think that the same thing is going on with THOC rods and since we are generally looking at rods with higher capacities, we can overload them more.

 

My primary two-hander for salt is a CND Atlantis 11 wt, which I always viewed as actually being somewhere between a 12 and a 13 (tho Juro and I got into an argument about that more than once :-) ). Up to this year I used it with lines in the 420-460 range, e.g., in the 13 wt range . This year I bought Beach lines which, as you know, are in the 530 range. On a day with light to moderate breeze, I can cast further with the Beach lines then I did before but my loops have clearly opened up (more than they usually do, anyway: I tend to overpower), so on really windy days I've lost distance, as you would expect.

 

For places such as Pleasant Bay or Harding Beach I'll tend to use a Loop Blue Line 11'6" 8 weight or the lighter CND. I usually use lines in the 400-425 grain range. They work fine but the rod is really on the border with them. In a few emergencies I've used both rods with lines approaching 500. It handled them and on a perfect day they flew, but the rods were clearly overloading, sometimes pretty badly. In those kinds of situations, I really start wondering whether there really is a significant difference any longer between "flyfishing" and using a spin-casting surf rod, at least for me, anyway.

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Greg,

 

Last year I used a 12 foot 10 wt Switch rod which I later re- rated at a 7 or max 8wt Spey line. I cast an Airfow Beachline on it the 11-12wt which is around 500 to 550 grains. I used this line as this is the line that came with the rod and reel as a loaner from Herb. Now in any wind except a head wind this little rod vastly overloaded as it was could cast that 550grain line a very long way and with little effort. I learnt a lot from this rod. I now team it with a line of around 350grains and its a nice tool now but not my std go to rod for the beach anymore but more of a specialst rod for nice conditions and when presentation is key say on a flat.

I don't want to get too prescriptive anymore as it causes too much dischord. I do work to a rule of thumb for myself and others have to find out for themselves what works for them. If asked I will give a straight answer though.

The great thing about TH OH casting is that most anyone within an incredibly short space of time can get very good at it. 15 minutes and most guys I helped/ worked with were laying down good looking casts. I am not a certified casting instructor and have had to figure TH OH casting mostly by myself but with help from a very good Spey guy over here. A pro teacher can get you going very well in an hours lesson. If you can find one that is good with OH teaching skills.

Once you get into lines of 500 grains + there is a huge amount of feedback and you get to feel very clearly whats going on in your cast.

Unlike yourself I am still happy even with big powerful TH rods and heavy lines. The FW TH Salmon Fishers can be casting lines around 700 to 1000 grains. It never has felt like spinning to me as I am still casting a line and a fly. But I do understand how you feel as I don't wish to cast Streamers or lures anymore for Trout. I have a rod that casts 875 grains but the diameter of the skagit head is just butt ugly and like rope and is not going to fish very sweetly but if the wind is howling and its teh only way I can stay in the game then occasionally it will come out to play. So far I have managed to do most things well with a 550 grain line cast with a bit of energy when conditions have toughned and eased off when conditions have been fine.' It is still very much work in progress and good fun finding out new stuff.

Wish I could get to cast one of these Sage TCX's as they are now intreguing me a bit.

 

Mike

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I spoke with David at Tight Lines today. He said that for 2 hand overhead casting on the beach, that they generally recommend a Skagit setup. If I wasn't going after salmon and steelhead, then an intermediate running line may be the best choice for my saltwater needs. That would be combined with an intermediate Skagit head (510-540 grains) and a 10' intermediate sink tip....After talking to Tight Lines and reading many of your recommendations for similar set ups, I am very interested in this set up.

 

I also called Rio and talked to Chris Anderson there. He also has a Sage TCX 7126. He uses it mainly for spey type casts, but has done some overhead casting with 20' skagit short heads. He said that for overhead casting a skagit line that you should lighten the recommended grain weight of the skagit head used for spey type casting by 75-100 grains. If a skagit head of 520 was recommended for spey type casting, then 420-445 grain weight was probably about right for overhead casting. We started talking about the Outbound lines and he thought a 10 weight (425 grains) would be about right. He thought that the 11 weight might be on the border of beginning to take away some of the lively action of the rod. He said that either an Outbound or an Outbound Short would both be good choices for that rod. After I hung up the phone, I realized that an Outbound line at 425 grains would be lighter than a 425 grain Skagit head set up because of the weight of the tip used with the Skagit Head. If the 11 weight Outbound line might be too much at 465 grains, then the tip for the Skagit Head would weigh even more. I may have to call Chris again for some clarification.

 

I'm bouncing around so much on this that I feel like a tennis ball on center court at Wimbledon this week!

 

Tim

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