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slip n slide

flies?

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Or not? All this talk of action flies and plugs and wiggle lips...



Foam over estaz and some hackle.Material-wise it could be a big foam bodied western dry but w/ the foam pierced and a resulting lip it's something else now.The lil black one (#6) is an absolute killer for steelhead,esp those fish laid up in the almost not moving pools where big schools of them will lie.Very effective but I rarely use them...kinda feel like it's cheating.

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SlipnSlide

 

I have a friend who is primarily a boat fisherman and he keeps a flyrod on his boat to be used when the big blues are around. His method of fly use is kinda of interesting. He attaches a large bunker spoon to his leader and just strips the fly line of the reel and trolls the bunker spoon around a point at the head of the harbor. He tells me he loves the feel of the fight on the flyrod. On another thread posted here lately it was stated that anything attached to the end of the fly line

or tippet is to be considered a fly. Quite a liberal interpretation I think. In the meantime I will be constructing my "Bunker Spoon Fly" but first I'll need to visit my

local junk yard to pickup the necessary scrap metal .

 

***Just an observation. Not looking to rile the hardware guys ***;)

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Nice flies



 



This is my opinion of a fly definition - a fly is an object transfered by a fly line - does not matter if it has a lip, foam, pulse disk, popper heads, estaz or anything. If the fly line can transfer the item to the fish its considered a fly in my opinion.



 



Some people are against the so called hardware because they believe that is not part of the origins of fly fishing, and thats perfectly fine. Some people are totally for this new hardware and they truly work well and catch fish, thats fine as well.



 



As long as the person is happy with their type of fly, it catches fish, I think its great based on an individual basis.



 



Overall, I dont think we will ever have an answer to what is a fly or is not a fly - for me, if its transfered by a fly line...its a fly.


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However it is defined as the following - a fly is an object transferred by a fly line - does not matter if it has a lip, foam, pulse disk, popper heads, estaz or anything. If the fly line can transfer the item to the fish its considered a fly in my opinion....

 

Who, or what, defines a fly in the manner you describe?

 

...Overall, I don't think we will ever have an answer to what is a fly or is not a fly - for me, if its transferred by a fly line...its a fly.

 

So, by your rationale, if I tie a 6" School bus yellow bomber onto the end of my fly line, and flip it into the current to fish with, I am fishing a fly and not a lure/ plug?

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Quote:

Originally Posted by M. saxatilis View Post

Who, or what, defines a fly in the manner you describe?

So, by your rationale, if I tie a 6" School bus yellow bomber onto the end of my fly line, and flip it into the current to fish with, I am fishing a fly and not a lure/ plug?



I do not think a yellow bomber at the end of the fly line is considered a fly. Below is how I feel about flies, I should have been more clear in the beginning.



 



It's a fly to me as long as I can cast it on a fly rod and fly line combination. As you can see I am very free in my guidelines as to what consists of a fly and what does not. As long as I am having fun and enjoying myself whether the fly I am casting is a fly or not to someone else.


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I have a number of variables that keep me feelin' pure & fresh as a summer's breeze.



 



 



 



1.) I made the ****. 



 



2.) It weighs less than my fly line.



 



C.) It ain't got treble hooks on it.



 



1b.) I made the ****.


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Quote:

Originally Posted by Fallen513 View Post


I have a number of variables that keep me feelin' pure & fresh as a summer's breeze.



 



 



 



1.) I made the ****. 



 



2.) It weighs less than my fly line.



 



C.) It ain't got treble hooks on it.



 



1b.) I made the ****.





Thats a good way to put in fallen.



 



I should have been more specific in my statement.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Orca View Post

SlipnSlide

I have a friend who is primarily a boat fisherman and he keeps a fly rod on his boat to be used when the big blues are around. His method of fly use is kinda of interesting. He attaches a large bunker spoon to his leader and just strips the fly line of the reel and trolls the bunker spoon around a point at the head of the harbor. He tells me he loves the feel of the fight on the fly rod. On another thread posted here lately it was stated that anything attached to the end of the fly line

or tippet is to be considered a fly. Quite a liberal interpretation I think. In the meantime I will be constructing my "Bunker Spoon Fly" but first I'll need to visit my

local junk yard to pickup the necessary scrap metal .

***Just an observation. Not looking to rile the hardware guys ***wink.gif



Hey Orca - I see in your above post, you posted the following : **On another thread posted here lately it was stated that anything attached to the end of the fly line or tippet is to be considered a fly.** That post was from myself. I understand you think this is a liberal definition, but this is how I feel about what the loose definition is, regarding a fly. I know there is much controversy between what is a fly and what is a lure, and I'm not here to decide any of that. So let me clarify for you, the best I can.



 



In my own opinion if you add a fly lip, pulse disk, foam, estaz, etc or something similar, to the end of a "fly" it is still considered a fly. If it can be casted like other normal fly patterns due to the weight transfer of the fly line,  the fly weighs less than your fly line, the fly does not have a series of treble hooks or other hooks, I consider this to be a fly. Of course you can come back at me and say "well if you put, a buck tail or spoon on the end of your fly line and cast it....is this considered a fly"? No, that is not a fly in my opinion, due to my loose definition above. I'm using an extreme case to show my view points. When I say the world "fly" I hope people know what I mean. I hope this helped answer any questions you may have had.



 



Can I ask you Orca, what is your definition of a "fly"?



 



I'm not trying to start a war between what is a fly and what is a lure ; but sometimes I need to clarify for everyone, because if I don't, then everyone starts to assume and questions my postings. The above is my opinion based definition of what is considered a "fly", through research and interpretation. Believe it or not, if you search the Internet, the loose definition I posted above -->can be found on many websites.



 



Anymore questions please ask



Thanks for your time



Joe


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I do not think a yellow bomber at the end of the fly line is considered a fly. Below is how I feel about flies, I should have been more clear in the beginning.

 

It's a fly to me as long as I can cast it on a fly rod and fly line combination. As you can see I am very free in my guidelines as to what consists of a fly and what does not. As long as I am having fun and enjoying myself whether the fly I am casting is a fly or not to someone else.

 

I have casted and caught fish on small standard rapala's and marabou crappie jigs on 12 weight fly lines before. I have also casted and drifted pieces of worm down current on fly gear. That doesn't really make them flies or does it.

 

It is curious to see how and why people get deffensive when it it comes to what is considered a fly and what is not. It used to be acceptable to call stuff fly rod lures back in the day. Today that doesn't seem to be the case.

 

Is a small foam or balsa popper a fly or a fly rod lure? It is just a scaled down plug isn't it? :confused::confused:

 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Micropteris View Post

I have casted and caught fish on small standard rapala's and marabou crappie jigs on 12 weight fly lines before. I have also casted and drifted pieces of worm down current on fly gear. That doesn't really make them flies or does it.

It is curious to see how and why people get deffensive when it it comes to what is considered a fly and what is not. It used to be acceptable to call stuff fly rod lures back in the day. Today that doesn't seem to be the case.

Is a small foam or balsa popper a fly or a fly rod lure? It is just a scaled down plug isn't it? confused.gifconfused.gif



I hope I did not offend you with my post. I was just standing up for my view point, since I posted my definition regarding my personal opinion of what a fly is, it brought up some controversy - so I decided to try and clarify it the best I can. The reason I bring up a yellow bomber plug, is because I was asked if i consider a large swimming plug a fly, which i do not. I totally agree with your viewpoints. I believe everyone should have their own definition and there is no right or wrong answer. Why people get upset? I am not sure....


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There is no offense and I hope I didn't offend the original poster. Those are beautiful flatfish by the way to Mister Slide.

 

I am more of a shts and giggles type of fly fisherman. Like you said it is all done in good fun. The rapala stunt was to prove a point to a friend that if you put enough weight into the fly line you can cast most anything and that doesn't really justify an 1/16 th of an ounce "fly" being a fly just because it can be cast with a fly rod. At the same time I took that 1/16 th of an ounce fly of his and casted it out with my ultra light spinning gear a very fishable distance and bounced it in like I would a jig.

 

I love drifting marabou jigs with a floating fly line because it is really a great way to float fish them like you would normally do with a bobber rig with spinning gear. Is it fly fishing? I really don't think so but it works. I tried drifting the worms with fly gear because I read about it in one of Ray Bergmans books, Just Fishing, and it sounded like a challenge to get a drag free drift of a worm as natural as possible.

 

Again I bring up the question are balsa or foam poppers tied for fly rods really flies or are they fly rod lures? Adding feathers and rubber legs to them doesn't really make them a fly, just think of all the commercial poppers for conventionals and spinners. Lots of them have feathered hooks and rubber skirts.

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Nice flies

 

This is my opinion of a fly definition - a fly is an object transfered by a fly line - does not matter if it has a lip, foam, pulse disk, popper heads, estaz or anything. If the fly line can transfer the item to the fish its considered a fly in my opinion.

 

Some people are against the so called hardware because they believe that is not part of the origins of fly fishing, and thats perfectly fine. Some people are totally for this new hardware and they truly work well and catch fish, thats fine as well.

 

As long as the person is happy with their type of fly, it catches fish, I think its great based on an individual basis.

 

Overall, I dont think we will ever have an answer to what is a fly or is not a fly - for me, if its transfered by a fly line...its a fly.

 

I agree with FliesNPlugs, as a general rule of thumb, if you can cast it in a reasonable manner (like all day and night) its a fly. If you were to hand me some of these giant bluewater poppers I could not cast them on my 8wt without hurting myself but could do with a 13 weight safely. It's a fly.

 

Those pics you oposted are indubitably flies. Brilliant flies too with the work on the foam. Topwater is the essence of fly fishing, Phil.

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Thanks fellas for your input



 



 I know there is much controversy between what is a fly and what is a lure, and I'm not here to decide any of that. So let me clarify for you, the best I can.



 



In my own opinion if you add a fly lip, pulse disk, foam, estaz, etc or something similar, to the end of a "fly" it is still considered a fly. If it can be casted like other normal fly patterns due to the weight transfer of the fly line, the fly weighs less than your fly line, the fly does not have a series of treble hooks or other hooks, I consider this to be a fly. Of course you can come back at me and say "well if you put, a buck tail or spoon on the end of your fly line and cast it....is this considered a fly"? No, that is not a fly in my opinion, due to my loose definition above. I'm using an extreme case to show my view points. When I say the world "fly" I hope people know what I mean. I hope this helped answer any questions you may have had.



 



I'm not trying to start a war between what is a fly and what is a lure ; but sometimes I need to clarify for everyone, because if I don't, then everyone starts to assume and questions my postings. The above is my opinion based definition of what is considered a "fly", through research and interpretation. Believe it or not, if you search the Internet, the loose definition I posted above -->can be found on many websites.



 



Anymore questions please ask



Thanks for your time



Joe


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Small jigs can be used on both fly rods and other other rods. If you're using one on a fly rod its a fly. If you're it on a casting rod, it's a jig or a lure. It's just that simple. The properties of the hooked instrument don't need to change for the name to change. The use or function changes, the name can change. But it highlights the underlying fallacy of this argument: it's just a name, and names are just labels, and you don't have to go in for labels, if you don't want to. LAbels are ideological referents, and you don't really need to subscribe to an ideology to fly fish.

 

A molded foam fly like that walk-the-dog fly is a fly. A little crappie jig being used on a fly rod is a fly, in the sense that we are using the word fly, in our reasonable discussion: an object delivered by fly casting. It's really a jig of course, in the sense that it was made for crappie fishing and that's where you'd find it in the store etc., but it's a fly in the sense of being light enough to be comfortably cast on a fly rod and being functionally used as a fly. We are using it as a fly. And if you are using a big clouser on a trout rod--perfectly sensible--it's being used as a jig, because you use jigs on spinning rods and jigs carry the weight of the line. And you will be using the appropriate sized rod to cast that jig. Just as you would be using the appropriate sized fly line to cast the crappie jig.

 

Beware these little tricks of switching out these definitions and changing terms. You can have this kind of interesting discussion about every single word we use, and it will expose ignorance, but it has something of the party trick about it.

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