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Beastly Backlash

Elimination of Invasive Species

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No, the easiest scapegoat is always correct. Like muskies in the lakes near me are responsible for declining LMB fishery. It couldn't be the birds, viruses, water quality, and overfishing......it has to be the muskies. Never blame the walleyes or the abundance of herring gorging on fish eggs.

 

The whole musky thing is pissing me off. I have never fished for strictly musky in my life, but my local lakes have all had serious pushes for a musky eradication because of the "declining LMB fishery". Its BS. This past year was the best I have ever had up there. It was the same guys complaining that were telling me "I only fish crankbaits, I dont have the patience for plastics", and they think it they arent catching them on cranks that they arent there? Gimme a break please

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Koofy,



 



So do you think flatheads, which are an apex predator like muskie, are responsible for the decline in SMB and LMB where they have been introduced? I would think carp, bullheads, channels, suckers, and sunfish would take the brunt.


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Koofy,

 

So do you think flatheads, which are an apex predator like muskie, are responsible for the decline in SMB and LMB where they have been introduced? I would think carp, bullheads, channels, suckers, and sunfish would take the brunt.

 

It all depends on the waterway. There is no way to put a blanket statement over a species throughout the country. That said, Ive seen some very aggressive cats, but I do not fish any water that has flatheads or blue cats in them so I cannot comment on them. From the water I do fish, sunfish seem to be the main fish that hurts the bass spawn. There is a reason why sunfish imitations and sunfish colors in general work so well in the spring around here. Sunnies notoriously go after the beds of bass and eat the eggs, which makes the bass strike them at any chance they get.

 

Around here, the main Musky forage is actually the big sunfish, we are over run with them and I have seen several muskys swimming around with sunfish in their mouths. Never have I seen them with a bass.

 

Its definitely a combination of things. I personally think a large portion of the Susquehanna problems come from the high high high water temps in the summer. Ive seen it in Maryland too where the fish kill is unbelievable in the heat of the summer. Nice 5-6 lb fish 5-10 in an area just floating dead. If there are cats in a lot of the waterways I can see the fish kill going vastly unnoticed because theyll eat it before anyone can find it to document it. Water quality and higher average water temps combined with less rain in a lot of areas seems to be taking a toll. Plus with our population, the stress and pressure put on these fish doesn't help matters at all.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Koofy Smacker View Post

It all depends on the waterway. There is no way to put a blanket statement over a species throughout the country. That said, Ive seen some very aggressive cats, but I do not fish any water that has flatheads or blue cats in them so I cannot comment on them. From the water I do fish, sunfish seem to be the main fish that hurts the bass spawn. There is a reason why sunfish imitations and sunfish colors in general work so well in the spring around here. Sunnies notoriously go after the beds of bass and eat the eggs, which makes the bass strike them at any chance they get.

Around here, the main Musky forage is actually the big sunfish, we are over run with them and I have seen several muskys swimming around with sunfish in their mouths. Never have I seen them with a bass.

Its definitely a combination of things. I personally think a large portion of the Susquehanna problems come from the high high high water temps in the summer. Ive seen it in Maryland too where the fish kill is unbelievable in the heat of the summer. Nice 5-6 lb fish 5-10 in an area just floating dead. If there are cats in a lot of the waterways I can see the fish kill going vastly unnoticed because theyll eat it before anyone can find it to document it. Water quality and higher average water temps combined with less rain in a lot of areas seems to be taking a toll. Plus with our population, the stress and pressure put on these fish doesn't help matters at all.



I appreciate your input, it is quite obvious that you put plenty of time in on the water and you pay very close attention to you fishing enviroments. In the Allegheny that I fish, the cats are very aggressive as well, not to mention large. It is a good point that you bring up about the increase of water temperatures. Catfish are much more capable in handling high water temperatures then SMB, or, from my own observations, even LMB. Which would help to explain, along with other things, the apparent increase in catfish population coupled with a decrease in SMB population.



 



I have found the SMB and walleye populations to be very healthy in the Allegheny all the same. I feel that walleye would be more likely to be eatten by large cats then bass for the simple fact that they tend to have simular patterns of behavior compared to catfish; both are primary nocternal with bottom hugging tendencies.



 



In the end, most enviroments will adapt to any introduced fish species. Catfish, in particular, are highly cannibalistic, flatheads and bluecats will eat their young just as readily as any other food fish they cross paths with, ineffect they will control their own population. LMB, SMB, pike, and muskie will also consume many young catfish.



 



However, poor conservation practices on our part as anglers is something that no fish population can adapt to, especially bass species as they tend to be the most popular of the freshwater game fish. When we don't properly clean are gear after fishing and then we go to another location, we might be unknowing spreading dieseases that fish populations can not handle. When idiots release aquairium fish with Ichthyophthirius multifiliis (Ich) into our lakes, rivers, and streams, they do untold damage. As for the diseases killing bass in the PA rivers, some fisherman may be responsible for that spread. 


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It all depends on the waterway. There is no way to put a blanket statement over a species throughout the country. That said, Ive seen some very aggressive cats, but I do not fish any water that has flatheads or blue cats in them so I cannot comment on them. From the water I do fish, sunfish seem to be the main fish that hurts the bass spawn. There is a reason why sunfish imitations and sunfish colors in general work so well in the spring around here. Sunnies notoriously go after the beds of bass and eat the eggs, which makes the bass strike them at any chance they get.

 

Around here, the main Musky forage is actually the big sunfish, we are over run with them and I have seen several muskys swimming around with sunfish in their mouths. Never have I seen them with a bass.

 

Its definitely a combination of things. I personally think a large portion of the Susquehanna problems come from the high high high water temps in the sumIve seen it in Maryland too where the fish kill is unbelievable in the heat of the summer. Nice 5-6 lb fish 5-10 in an area just floating dead dead. If there are cats in a lot of the waterways I can see the fish kill going vastly unnoticed because theyll eat it before anyone can find it to document it. Water quality and higher average water temps combined with less rain in a lot of areas seems to be taking a toll. Plus with our population, the stress and pressure put on these fish doesn't help matters at all.

 

None of that from guys not knowing how to keep fish alive in the well? You ever think maybe we shouldn't be having tournaments during the middle of summer when fish can't handle the stress?

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None of that from guys not knowing how to keep fish alive in the well? You ever think maybe we shouldn't be having tournaments during the middle of summer when fish can't handle the stress?

 

As I was re reading my post that thought popped into my head. Every weekend there are atleast 3 tournaments going on down there, and Im sure on a lot of water throughout the region. I have a picture somewhere from a day last August of my FF reading the water temp being 90.1 if I remember correctly. Guess what, there were multiple tournaments going the next day. Don't get me wrong, the fishing was fantastic, but that definitely contributes to the fish kill. All of it? I highly doubt it, but it definitely has an effect. Interesting however that every other lake I fish tournaments in, I very very rarely see a dead fish, and most of the time the ones I do see have a bobber or something hanging out of their throats, meaning it wasnt from the tournament. So Im not really sure what to take from it.

 

But also look at it this way. No tournaments in the spring for the spawn, add in no tournaments in the summer because of the heat, and before we know it tournaments will be banned all together because they are too stressful. The best way to eliminate stress on the fish and the fish kill in general is not to be out there at all fishing for them. But we all know, myself included, that this wont happen. Heck, I had days in September and August where I pulled out over 20 lbs in 5 bass off of a single dock. So take it for what its worth, but if they start implementing "seasons" like that its going to be a tough one because temperatures change year to year and the month that had 90 degree water one year could hover at a reasonable 75-85 mid summer.

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I hear ya, it just always seems that the flats, potomac, etc. get pounded every weekend with tons of tournaments when the water temps are really high. I'm not saying ban tournaments during the summer but down there they should be limited, the amount of tournaments out of each marina gets ridiculous from what I heard. I honestly have never fished down there but I know a lot of people who have and I've heard the horror stories. I know you can't beleive everything you hear but I am sure there is some truth to it.

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I hear ya, it just always seems that the flats, potomac, etc. get pounded every weekend with tons of tournaments when the water temps are really high. I'm not saying ban tournaments during the summer but down there they should be limited, the amount of tournaments out of each marina gets ridiculous from what I heard. I honestly have never fished down there but I know a lot of people who have and I've heard the horror stories. I know you can't beleive everything you hear but I am sure there is some truth to it.

 

Haha well ive seen some pretty weird stuff go on down there. Last tournament I fished down there was actually my buddies club classic in October. Blast off air temps were right around 25 degrees so we decided to hang slightly close to the launch because I was on good fish. Im not kidding, 4 other tournaments were going off at the same time, 200-250 boats in 5 total groups were trying to blast off daybreak. Talk about water like Lake Erie. Turned out to be a miserable day. Every single spot for the first 5 miles had 2-3 boats sitting on it. I also went down for a day by myself, got there, got in the water and a freaking parade of high end bass boats started in. Little did I know it was the last practice day for the BASS Mid Atlantic Championship. Pro after pro launching as Im sitting there in my little 17.5 ft G3 :p But yes, in all it gets hammered with tournaments like that. Most of them are smaller club tournaments, maybe 10 boats in each over the weekends.

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It all depends on the waterway. There is no way to put a blanket statement over a species throughout the country. That said, Ive seen some very aggressive cats, but I do not fish any water that has flatheads or blue cats in them so I cannot comment on them. From the water I do fish, sunfish seem to be the main fish that hurts the bass spawn. There is a reason why sunfish imitations and sunfish colors in general work so well in the spring around here. Sunnies notoriously go after the beds of bass and eat the eggs, which makes the bass strike them at any chance they get.

 

Around here, the main Musky forage is actually the big sunfish, we are over run with them and I have seen several muskys swimming around with sunfish in their mouths. Never have I seen them with a bass.

 

Its definitely a combination of things. I personally think a large portion of the Susquehanna problems come from the high high high water temps in the summer. Ive seen it in Maryland too where the fish kill is unbelievable in the heat of the summer. Nice 5-6 lb fish 5-10 in an area just floating dead. If there are cats in a lot of the waterways I can see the fish kill going vastly unnoticed because theyll eat it before anyone can find it to document it. Water quality and higher average water temps combined with less rain in a lot of areas seems to be taking a toll. Plus with our population, the stress and pressure put on these fish doesn't help matters at all.

 

Pretty sure your Tuesday night hangout has flatheads.

 

Or at least the state record was caught out of the spillway there.

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Pretty sure your Tuesday night hangout has flatheads.

 

Or at least the state record was caught out of the spillway there.

 

It was. Ive caught several channel cats out of there, but no flatheads. The spillway is a different story. Guys are always heading over there with deep sea setups to fish there. When they are releasing water its a wild sight.

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