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sharp1

Don't use Pop Rivets on your Tupperware boats!

18 posts in this topic

I'm not trying to incite a riot, just feel that pop rivets on plastics boats have some problems. They leak, you need special rivets for kayaks, they are somewhat problematic to install and you need a special gun/tool for them. It is the most common fastener used by manufatures of plastic kayaks to attach pad eyes and deck hardware. This is a cost driven hardware choice for a production environment. They have access to a big tub of them (bulk purchases) and also the pneumatic guns to pull them tightly. And if they blow it, the have the tools to re-do the intallation as required-and even repairing the hulls.

 

Fortunately, met the VP of a Mainstream Kayaks (HArmony,Perception etc.) at a Fishing Expo on the West Coast last year. He turned me on to the "Wellnut Fastener". This fastener is commercially available and anyone with a 3/8" drill and a screw driver can install them quickly. They are superior to pop rivets , IMHO, as follows:

 

1) They have a pull-out strength of 200 pounds per fastener.

 

2) They are waterproof and self sealing. Yep-water tight!!!

 

3) They are removable/replaceable with just a screwdriver. You can plug an unused hole with a Wellnut and a SS washer and screw. Watertight and flush as the screw head.

 

4) They provide shock absorption. This is a biggie for sit-on-top kayaks. For expample, when mounting a FF/GPS on the center tunnel, sometimes it gets bumped by your legs when boarding and exiting the craft in a hurry. Or worse yet, if you roll in the surf zone and the FF/GPS gets whacked hard-the shock mount helps alot. Rubber mounts are better for absorbing shock than rigid rivets.

Think about the rod holders and the force applied by a Big Moe, or by a snag. Better to have the rod holders shock mounted. Best to mount the padeye that you use to tie-down the craft to your car with a strong shock mount. If the pop rivet pulls-out, there goes your boat.

 

5) By using different length SS screws, the Wellnuts accommodate any grip length required to mount deck hardware using the same insert.

 

6) Simple and fast to install with only a drill moter, bit and screw driver

 

For more detailed specs and graphics on Wellnuts; Link Here:

http://www.emhart.com/products/pop/wellnut3.htm

 

Source for Wellnuts. This is a tougher nut to crack. They are offered, I am told, by some better hardware stores. I could not find them easily, locally here in LA. So I went to a distributor and I had to buy a big quantity to get just a few dozen. I have been supplying my buddies from my stash since then. I will even provide them to fellow kayakers if you want them and can't find them; at cost. I am no retailer.

 

The Wellnuts I use have a brass threaded insert and accept 10/32 SS screws, which are commonly available at marine hardware stores or even Home Depot.

 

So, since you Easterners are suffering cabin fever, and are heating the garages to rigg the Yaks for the Spring, you should seriuosly consider these new, hi-teck fasteners for the kayaks. I hope you find this info usefull and entertaining!Good luck.

 

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Sharp1 Welcome to the board. Harmony makes paddle clips that use those fasteners so they may be a possible source. The only issue with the screws is that they may loosen over time,I presume some over the counter lock-tite or similar product could be used to prevent loosening. I have had no problems with the blind aircraft rivets on my OK Scupper TW, although I may mount some of the OK carrying handles with the wellnuts, I am very wary of rivets for that application and have even mulled over stainless nut and bolts with big washers. Thanks for the info. Dave Collins

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The only issue with the screws is that they may loosen over time...

Westhavendave,

I have been using the Wellnuts for a season and have not had any loosening problems. With these things, you can cinch them down pretty tight, and the rubber insert that pulls-up(mushrooms) on the backside of the mounting surface pinches really hard. The beauty of these fasteners is that the shock and vibrations which may loosen a rigid faster; like a nut, washer and bolt, don't ever get to the screw. The elastomer material these are made out of (butyl rubber) damps the vibrations and absorbs the loosening forces. I may have had one loosen a bit on a "mono-clip" paddle holder, and after cinching it a few more turns it has never come loose again. You can really crank these down pretty hard.

 

That is the subject of my next rant. The best paddle clip.

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How much room is there under the item being secured and the deck? Is it a hangup place for lines? What about backing plates. Will it accomodate these? I have used rivets with minimal problems. Really less than 1/4 cup after a full day. I do use SS nuts/bolts with anything I am really interested in securing. I back with large disks of thin cutting board plastic or SS washers, and use the nylon inserted nuts to tighten down. But if these can accomodate backing plates, may be a good choice for some of the smaller things. Scott

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ScottO,

Yes you install them blind like rivets. They work as good as bolts and absorb shock better. If you go to the trouble to install items with bolts and back-up plates, you'll love Wellnuts for some items too. The bolts and plates are excellent, but you need sealant with that system. The Wellnuts are self sealing. I don't get ANY water in my boat using these and no goop required..

 

Wellnuts come in many shoulder heights and grip lengths. You can get them with thin shoulders that compress and become essentially flush. They will not gap and give line a space to jam. The grip lengths are varied and you can get deep ones that will allow the use of backing plates.

 

Some additional references:

http://www.emhart.com/products/popwell.html

 

and here:

http://www.marshallsales.com/product...llnut_demo.htm

 

and here: http://www.gouldfast.ca/authorized/wellnut.html

 

Hope this helps

 

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I have those things. Now they have a name. I use them to mount items like handles. I also use a large stainless washer on both sides of the handle for additional strength. Anywhere that will have a load to bare. They aren't cheap but work really well. Thanks for the info and the post and if you didn't see my welcome on the depth finder thread, Welcome.

 

[This message has been edited by JonS (edited 01-08-2002).]

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Sharp1 welcome.Please start the rant on the paddle clips.I have used 4 different types.All the hard plastic ones eventually snapped off.The rubber ones I use now work well but the retaining straps were lost after a week.Any success with a certain type???

 

Doug M

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Sounds fantastic but what size well-nut do you use for SOT kayaks? I notice that there are a few sizes to choose from, all with different specifications of course. My Home Depot in Kyle, Texas offers four different sizes.


Thanks for your help,



irJeep~


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We'll nuts have been reported to pop...

They also leave a higher ridge...

 

You can, if you wish, buy them from McMaster and you can see the size and recommended material thickness...

If you want an alternative, check my sig for 4.3mod link and you can see the rivet nut for plastics application.

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I'm not trying to incite a riot, just feel that pop rivets on plastics boats have some problems. They leak, you need special rivets for kayaks, they are somewhat problematic to install and you need a special gun/tool for them. It is the most common fastener used by manufatures of plastic kayaks to attach pad eyes and deck hardware. This is a cost driven hardware choice for a production environment. They have access to a big tub of them (bulk purchases) and also the pneumatic guns to pull them tightly. And if they blow it, the have the tools to re-do the intallation as required-and even repairing the hulls.

 

 

Fortunately, met the VP of a Mainstream Kayaks (HArmony,Perception etc.) at a Fishing Expo on the West Coast last year. He turned me on to the "Wellnut Fastener". This fastener is commercially available and anyone with a 3/8" drill and a screw driver can install them quickly. They are superior to pop rivets , IMHO, as follows:

 

 

1) They have a pull-out strength of 200 pounds per fastener.

 

 

2) They are waterproof and self sealing. Yep-water tight!!!

 

 

3) They are removable/replaceable with just a screwdriver. You can plug an unused hole with a Wellnut and a SS washer and screw. Watertight and flush as the screw head.

 

 

4) They provide shock absorption. This is a biggie for sit-on-top kayaks. For expample, when mounting a FF/GPS on the center tunnel, sometimes it gets bumped by your legs when boarding and exiting the craft in a hurry. Or worse yet, if you roll in the surf zone and the FF/GPS gets whacked hard-the shock mount helps alot. Rubber mounts are better for absorbing shock than rigid rivets.

 

Think about the rod holders and the force applied by a Big Moe, or by a snag. Better to have the rod holders shock mounted. Best to mount the padeye that you use to tie-down the craft to your car with a strong shock mount. If the pop rivet pulls-out, there goes your boat.

 

 

5) By using different length SS screws, the Wellnuts accommodate any grip length required to mount deck hardware using the same insert.

 

 

6) Simple and fast to install with only a drill moter, bit and screw driver

 

 

For more detailed specs and graphics on Wellnuts; Link Here:

http://www.emhart.com/products/pop/wellnut3.htm

 

 

Source for Wellnuts. This is a tougher nut to crack. They are offered, I am told, by some better hardware stores. I could not find them easily, locally here in LA. So I went to a distributor and I had to buy a big quantity to get just a few dozen. I have been supplying my buddies from my stash since then. I will even provide them to fellow kayakers if you want them and can't find them; at cost. I am no retailer.

 

 

The Wellnuts I use have a brass threaded insert and accept 10/32 SS screws, which are commonly available at marine hardware stores or even Home Depot.

 

 

So, since you Easterners are suffering cabin fever, and are heating the garages to rigg the Yaks for the Spring, you should seriuosly consider these new, hi-teck fasteners for the kayaks. I hope you find this info usefull and entertaining!Good luck.

well nuts suck. They require a huge hole compared to a 10/24 bolt or rivet. The rubber anchor always eventualy dry rots and tears or rips out. Cherry rivets do NOT come loose. I have installed over 5,000 and have never had a aircraft rivet pull out. No special tool needed and they are easy to drill out and remove. You got fed a bunch of false info.

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Sharp1 welcome.Please start the rant on the paddle clips.I have used 4 different types.All the hard plastic ones eventually snapped off.The rubber ones I use now work well but the retaining straps were lost after a week.Any success with a certain type???

 

 

Doug M

The simplest and absolutely best paddle holder is the Scottys.

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