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Casting vs. Spinning

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Here's a post from the Florida board that might be of interest to many. Gowge, post author, is addressing the question of conventinal versus spinning casting distance.

 

"If they're both equally skilled, and the line on the spinning reel is correctly matched (thin) the difference might be less than you imagine.

 

Where I see a lot of spin fishers hurting their casting performance, is trying to use line that's just all wrong for spinning - too large diameter, and too hard and springy. It's also why so many guys are amazed how well their spinning gear works with thin braid line. It's limp (soft) and VERY thin. This will improve any spinning setup, but it's especially impressive when your rod is designed for braid from the get-go, like with Fuji Low Riders or it's a high performance interline design.

 

If you put thin, strong braid on some surf rods, even though they're designed for spinning reels, they begin to have problems the harder you cast. This is because of the tips waggling on the hard release of the lead or lure, and the rings which were designed in an era when mono was the only line being used. Ideally, you want a spinning rod with a bit harder tip that recovers very quickly. By contrast, casting reels have a much slower and smoother release. It's really two totally different disciplines, and the special needs of the spinning user must be taken into consideration.

 

Our friend Sergio was one of the first people I know (Dorge was actually the one who started the Fuji Low Rider craze IMHO) who switched from casting gear to high performance spinning gear. I archived some of the early posts over on the Permanent Archives. Sergio had special needs - a high speed retrieve was absolutely necessary to interest huge, powerful fish at long range. Casting reels just couldn't get it done, so he had Conoflex build him a custom Gambit24 with Fuji Low Riders and mounted a brand new Daiwa Emblem XA reel on it, filled with thin power pro line. The performance was astounding from the first test casts in England. Sergio lives near the driving range of a golf course, and was able to do some test casts right after sunrise before golfers arrived, and found he could wing a 4oz Tornado lure to 200 yards, a Roberts Ranger marked 4oz (actually 3.5oz) nearly as far, and a Bluefish Bomb to 180 measured yards. This is amazing performance from a 12' rod capable of handling monster Roosterfish from the beach. Anyone can duplicate his numbers with the same gear if they have comparable casting skills.

 

This performance is on a par with the best surfcasting (fishing) gear in the World IMHO. It opens up some very exciting possibilities for those who target big fish with lures in the worst conditions. Best of all, there's NO fear of a backlash but there ARE other considerations & limitations with spinning gear you should be aware. Braid can rip off the end of your finger if you are not careful or if you don't use some protection. The Breakaway Cannon Line Release is a very useful addition in this respect. A strong retrieve with adequate pressure on the line so it winds back on the spool evenly is important or your next cast might have problems. There's lotsa' other issues that are addressed in the threads over on the Arichives when you have time to read them. Look for posts by Sergio and/or Dorge.

 

So basically, if you have two fishers on the beach with equal strength and skill, and similar rods, there's no reason the one using high performance spinning gear set up correctly, can't match the one using casting gear. The line and rod rings are critical to better performance from spinning gear. The spinning gear is also going to be more expensive in the end - braid line, vs mono, and the Low Rider Rings are SiC only right now, so a set of Low Riders is going to cost you more too. Entry level high performance spinning reels are around $200 and up, but go all the way to the newest Shimano SW20000 Stellas that are rated for 80-100lb test braid line! These reels can pull 66lbs of drag - more than a BIG Penn Senator! Spinning tackle is changing, and we're all the better for it"

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For the average fisherperson maybe. But when you get up into the tournament class they mostly seem to use conventionals or Alveys (which I don't know how you would classify)

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First off, no one has ever placed in the LDC Regionals or Nationals with and Alvey. Some very good casters have tried them and put them back in the box, never to be seen again.

 

If you read very closely as to what the article is saying, the major breakthrough is the thin diameter braid.

 

Braid is not a sanctioned line in casting tournaments. All contestants must use mono.

 

I have cast both spinner and conventionals in many LDC tournaments and have done very well when casting spinner.

 

If braid were to be allowed in these tournaments you would see some very very impressive numbers.

 

 

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I think the reason for the post is that in real life (not tournaments) well-matched spinning tackle makes the distance.

 

A single look at one of Sergio's roosterfish is proof of it's effectiveness.

 

My question is why the restriction against using braid in the tourneys? Aren't they interested in seeing how far men can throw a lure? Or is it they are "traditional" and don't like the advantage the braid gives the spinners? Serious question.

 

That thinking seems a little antiquated to me...

 

TH

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...And thinking about it, how long was it before they allowed the use of Mono?

(Which was the "new" technology up until recently)

 

How long were the "traditional" cotton, silk and dacron lines the only ones approved by the casting clubs before someone forged the way, and allowed mono into the game?

 

TH

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Hello to all of you.  I live in France (near Bordeaux) where the fishing isn't half as good as it is off the coast of Maine...  But that's the way thing are.  I've been using some pretty heavy gear here like a 14 foot spinning surfcasting road with my trusty Penn 750 spinning reel.  The way people fish here is casting 3,5 oz to 5 oz lead sinker with one or two lines attached.  Seeing as the biggest fish you can reasonably hope for is a 10 pound sea bass, I'm trying to equip myself with much lighter gear.  There are some 60 pound "congres" around as well as some pretty big rays and red drumfish up to 80 pounds but these don't come often.  So I'm looking at a Abu Garcia Record (size 6000) reel and I was wondering what you experts would recommend. I'm not to sure I can use the baitcasting reel on a spinning rod...  So I'm definitely in need for some good sound advice.  



Otherwise I fish lures using a Revo Inshore reel on a Fantsista Suisho rod.



 



Thank you so much for your answer.


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here like a 14 foot spinning surfcasting road with my trusty Penn 750 spinning reel // the biggest fish you can reasonably hope for is a 10 pound sea bass //not to sure I can use the bait casting reel on a spinning rod.

 

Bienvenu mom pote. Here is my 2 cents worth and general thought.14 ' surf rod : get a postal scale to see how much this sucker weights. that much you have to swing it all day. 10 lbs bass take : take some risk and scale down your tackle so you can enjoy more ( for me no more than 10 lbs test plus leader). Bait casting on spinning rod : kind of awkward to fight fish and then yourself. Vive la France la peche et le Bordeaux.

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First off, Who cares anymore? Whatever you need to do the job, use it.

 

From an engineering point of view I am sorry to tell you this but there is inherently less friction on conventional casting Reels, And I don't mean all conventional reels. And yes on paper they have the potential to cast longer distance then an open face spinning reel. It Physics on earth, can't change that. It also seem that most world record cast are done on conventional casting reels so I would have to agree that they do out cast spinning. Spinning reels are get better (better line, Spools shape/diameter), but so are conventional (better line, Spool weight,bearings, oil, mags, etc...) Point is not to be worried about which will cast a longer distance but to use what you need to get the job done.

 

Dom

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Wow, a 9 year old thread :th:

 

First off, Who cares anymore? Whatever you need to do the job, use it.

From an engineering point of view I am sorry to tell you this but there is inherently less friction on conventional casting Reels,

 

How so? A conventional reel has bearing friction. A fixed-spool spinning reel only has the friction of the line passing over the spool lip.

 

From the first guide onwards I'll give it to a conventional, but only because the line comes off it straight rather than in a helix. I would still say that a fixed spool has at least the inherent potential to create less friction than a rotating spool.

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The Fiction of the line digging into the spool lip is a lot more fiction then line coming directly off a spool with bearings. The line will slow down a lot faster coming off a spinning spool vs a conventional spool, + the addition of the Helix despoiling. (I think they call this line slap) This is under perfect conditions of course. Personally I prefer a spinner for lighter stuff, and anything 1.5 oz an up conventional.

 

Dom

 

 

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Well the rod I'm using for surfcasting weighs in at 450 grams and that makes it just about 1 lb.  You don't cast and retrieve with that kind of thing.  You stick it on a sand pike and you hope the fish will bite...  That's why I'm looking towards lighter equipment  on the basis I'm no Arnold Schwarznegger...  and a baitcasting reel  on the basis you get better distance with conventional reels than with spinning reels.



Can anybody advise me on a suitable rod for my purpose?



 



Cheers to all those who appreciate a good Bordeaux wine.  Try eating some Foie gras with a Loupiac, or having a good Roquefort with a Pessac Léognan!!  A la vôtre mes amis!!smile.gif


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