GrateWhite529

What books would you recommend for surf fishing ?

Rate this topic

29 posts in this topic

Many excellent recommendations here. But, I've got a couple to add. Inshore Fly Fishing (I think that's the name) by Lou Tabory and Ed Mitchell's book on saltwater fly fishing are excellent, even if you never pick up a fly rod. They'll tell you how to read water, identify baitfish and their habits and how to present your offering to stripers, blues and weakfish.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Many excellent recommendations here. But, I've got a couple to add. Inshore Fly Fishing (I think that's the name) by Lou Tabory and Ed Mitchell's book on saltwater fly fishing are excellent, even if you never pick up a fly rod. They'll tell you how to read water, identify baitfish and their habits and how to present your offering to stripers, blues and weakfish.

 

Tabory's "Stripers on the Fly" also very good and was my first teacher for salt and agree you don't need to even fly fish to learn good things from it.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Many excellent recommendations here. But, I've got a couple to add. Inshore Fly Fishing (I think that's the name) by Lou Tabory and Ed Mitchell's book on saltwater fly fishing are excellent, even if you never pick up a fly rod. They'll tell you how to read water, identify baitfish and their habits and how to present your offering to stripers, blues and weakfish.

 

Yes to this. These are two very informative reads like Baldwin said about bait. tides, presentation etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Holy Bat copy pasting!! Sudsy.



 



I know what i'll be reading at work ALL WEEK!!!



 



Seeing as to some of that stuff surely seemed high quality....can u recommend a full book for Florida's surf?  


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Suds, that is a 25 page word doc. Printing it now, cant wait to read it.

 

I keep mine in the lil boys room.  In over a yr I'm yet to finish the entire piece. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/19/2013 at 5:59 PM, Sudsy said:

Print this, it\'ll keep you busy for a while B*** ***** -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Used to fish in New England with a wild and wooly sort who first got introduced to us as \"Massachusetts Mike.\" He was a great surf fisherman. He caught the tar out of the giant cows that were abundant back then, and he rubbed elbows at the top of the surfcasting pyramid. But he was a tough, vain and arrogant rogue. This really wasn\'t his fault as it seems that most top rungs on the surfcasting ladder are blessed with such personalities. Nevertheless, Mike deserved a special title fit only to himself, and we soon changed his name to \"M******* Mike.\" It stuck like a sharp hook in the eye and that\'s how he was forever after known on every beach and rock in the striper kingdom. As you would probably expect of M*******, he relished his new name, and if he ever reads this, there is no doubt he will surely convince himself and others that this article is proclaiming his prowess in the surf for all the Internet to know. Unfortunately for him, M******* Mike is not what this article is all about, but it is about a closely related topic - b*** *****. Are you interested? Please read on. How does one identify a bass hole? You don\'t. Typically someone has to tell you about their bass hole when they lay dying and they are convinced they will never fish again. It is often best to speed up this process by poisoning the old bass hole or backing up over him with your truck when he is preoccupied with wrggling out of his waders. By the way, make sure you have a tape recorder handy for any last minute revelations at that moment. How big is the typical bass hole? The term, \"bass hole\", is used to define a specific, usually FIXED spot, often of hard composition - like rock beds, docks, bridge stanchion, shoals, mussel beds - but also other rather PERMANENT spots such as weed beds. A most important part of the definition includes that a bass hole will PERSIST from season to season with only subtle changes to it. Now, the bass hole itself is not often, for example, an entire dock, but maybe only one hole where you can cast uptide and let your jig drift down and swing up off bottom as it goes under the dock. In this example, let\'s assume that there is a channel or ridge that comes down the shoreline parallel to the beach, and a school of bass will always pass through the area using the deep end of the slope like Indians on a trail moving single file through the woods. The bass hole is where you can intercept their passage where the trail goes under the dock. Their will be a constant stream of bass moving along the trail when they are actively using it. Another type of bass hole is bigger, like on rugged bottom where a weed and mussel bank forms for whatever reason where there is often a slope going from deep to shallow water. Also a rock bed in such a sloping area, or even just one or two big rocks positioned just right! In these b*** *****, there are all the living conditions that satisfy a striper\'s needs, including food, shelter, etc. As wandering or migrating striper schools use scouts to locate these b*** *****, they will move into them and set up feeding stations during the tidal periods when they instinctively can get the bait disadvantaged and driven down into the school by wind, tide, the bait\'s blind compulsion to migrate on that tide, or other bass or predators uptide that are causing the bait to flee down into their feeding stations at the bass hole. The scouts will continue to draw the school up to feed at this bass hole until the bait has left the area of the bass hole...for various reasons...including that the bass may have decimated it all. Then this wandering or migratory school will move off the bass hole to seek more productive b*** ***** that haven\'t been chewed down lately (they don\'t call \'em cows for nothing). Now, the best part of b*** ***** is that \"resident\" bass always occupy them too. Why? Because there is everything a bass needs in a bass hole. It\'s like a 711 store that\'s always open. If the bass hole has enough food for 100 or 10 resident bass, then there\'s 100 or 10 residents in there all the time, 24 hours a day. If it can only support 3 bass, that\'s the amount of residents that will always live there. Ready for a math puzzle? If a bass hole can only routinely hold 10 fish, and 8 are already residing there and 5 new fish try to take up residence...that means 3 fish have to voluntarily leave or involuntarily be forced out of the bass hole by the ones most determined to stay. Big ones will look to confront any and all others, small ones will try to remain hidden deep in the bass hole where they can\'t be found by the others. Eventually, 3 fish will have to depart the bass hole as there is not enough sustenance in it for all of them. However, resident fish are not \"all there\" for whatever reason. They may be sick, tagged, a little smelly or squirrelly in their pea brains, so their school has made them outcasts, and they live like homeless (a striper\'s home is it\'s school) on the bass hole. Therefore, you can tell when a ravenous school has moved on because you will start plucking out ony residents again. Some residents will have noticable problems, sometimes they may smell foul, or their bodies are cheesy, or tail rot, or one-eyed, or tagged, whatever deformities, etc. Many residents will look perfectly fine to our eye, but their school found something about them to be a risk to the school\'s well-being and therefore an untolerable individual fish to be forced out of the school. Sometimes during heavy migratory periods, waves of fresh-run schools will set up in the bass hole night after night for long durations of a few days to a few weeks. Again, you know when you are between schools or sadly, when an entire WAVE of a migration has finished passing you by, because the residents will once again reclaim the bass hole...could be new, not right fish staying behind because they can\'t keep up with their at the moment... could be the same not right fish as before the fresh-runs passed through who are now coming out of hiding. Either way, the return of these residents, often referred to as \"handicaps\" is a sad sign indeed during migratory seasons. Oh, other big waves may come through soon, but you just waved \"Ta Ta, see you next year!\" to the departing hordes! The handicaps are like the guys who clean up after the end of the parade. How do you approach a bass hole? You absolutely must make sure that you buy the bass hole a big breakfast every time you come off the beach with him. Do you toss your lure right in the middle or do you skim the edges of the bass hole? I find that it is usually best to hit him in the middle on the back of the head with a 2 ounce bucktail that you are casting. I wouldn\'t recommend to just skim the edge, you probably will not get sufficient results out of the bass hole that way! Remember, the bass hole must be convinced that he\'ll never cast again before he\'ll pass along his spots to you! Have the tape recorder handy in case he does regain consciousness for a few minutes. He will probably be incoherent or babbling a lot, and you just kind of have to go with the flow as they say. Does a bass hole ever shut up (or stop holding bass) or is it an endless source of bass that one keeps to oneself if one finds a good size bass hole? Well, I have never known a good-sized bass hole not to be hungry at breakfast time. All kidding aside though, as far as an endless source of bass, that can be a good way to look at a bass hole. There will ALWAYS be fish that want to get into your bass hole, and you should keep your bass hole to yourself and practice safe sex. If you pluck out 5 residents tonight, you can come back tomorrow and find that they have been replaced by 5 new ones. Are b*** ***** different in the surf, jetty, inlet or river? Yes and no. The only difference is in their permanence - or more accurately their persistence over time. Of course, jetties, rocks, bivalve beds, weed beds and other natural or man-made structures have the tenacity to persist as b*** ***** over time, but we start to lose the meaning of the term when we include ever-changing sand beaches that may have great spots on them such as a bowl formed behind a shallow bar on a sandy beach...nice place for a bass to habitually visit on the tops of the tides, but they would not want to live there in there at low tide. Also, this bowl may get flattened out by a good storm, only to take some weeks to reshape itself back into into a productive fish-holding bowl. So yes, this is a good and constantly productive bowl, but it is not a bass hole as we have defined it above; not a 711 store that never closes, and not having the capacity to accommodate resident denizens 24 hours a day. Of course, this bowl is definitely a good spot, but it does not qualify by meeting all of the requirements to be defined as a classic \"bass hole\". How come some b*** ***** only seem to produce on one tide (or part thereof) but not the other? Flood or ebb? Let\'s get into a discussion of incoming versus outgoing water. Migratory movements, non-migratory feeding treks, or frequent instinctive nomadic wanderings of schools are often accomplished via a \"rachet\" effect using the tide. Think of how you change a tire...rachet up one notch, then hold...rachet up another notch, then hold. Bass frequently rachet up wherever they are going on one tide, not heavily feeding during that, then hold for the other tide in as comfortable a holding place as they can locate...your b*******...hopefully, but not always, finding an available food supply big enough for the entire school to gorge themselves. If so, they will settle in and gorge themselves for that particular tide or portion thereof. For example, a classic pattern for non-migratory schools around inlet jetties is to use an incoming tide during the mid-afternoon to sweep the bass far up into the back bay, where they will scout for bait as they sweep into the back, often looking for big pelagics such as herring, bunkers and such. They will start driving this bait to concentrate it into denser schools as the outgoing starts around dinner time, and then push them towards the jetty on the outgoing, pinning them against the sides of the jetty by sundown or shortly thereafter and take feeding stations in the rip out front. If there are big pelagics to be pushed down, then this pattern will be productive for 2-3 days twice a month when the tide cycles around to a mid-afternoon flood. Well, that\'s all for now...my phone\'s ringing and I betcha it\'s some bass hole who wants me to take him to my bass hole. Fat chance. He\'ll have to kill me first. Regards, B*******dozer Just the right balance of golden information and wry humor. We certainly miss you, Russ. Hope you\'re Mohawking them on Lake Powell. DZ, Here is the theory that you think is such a scam. It is excerpted from an article I wrote, so part of it may be out of context. Nevertheless, if you think this is bull, I\'ll only laugh at you anyway. --- A school will often move into a feeding location and the entire school \"sets up\", usually waiting for the tide to pull and drive bait down into their location. Once the tide pulls and bait is flushing down, you get what\'s called a \"commitment\" from the school to stay and feed until the tide slackens up. If you start to pluck them out before the tide pulls good and forces a \"commitment\" out of them, the whole school may move off if you bother them too soon before the tide pulls hard. But once you start pulling \'em out in a hard tide, the school becomes reluctant to move off the feeding grounds, because they cannot easily set up and feed somewhere else for the next 12 hours (the next similar tidal situation). In finding where to set up, some bass precede the school as scouts to find these bait locations, and you never want to pluck out or frighten away the scouts, because they are the ones that the rest of the school follow. If you fish every day like me, you will recognize when different looking fish start to filter into a spot that hasn\'t been grazed over by a school recently. You keep tabs on em, but you don\'t hook \'em all. That\'s only cutting your own throat. Once a school sets up on a location where they reunite with the scouts, some bass even work to herd the bait to guide it down towards the waiting school. Now where the school is waiting, the fish instinctively jockey each other for the best feeding stations - the bigger bass drive the smaller bass to the poorer water. Summarily, this often means the shallower or slower-moving areas of the spot. In deeper locations, the small bass will typically be driven up higher to suspend near the surface whereas the more dominant bass will be deeper. Well, that\'s all I will tell you for now. Each different school has shared physical attributes. If you\'ve cuaght enough bass, you can recognize one school form any other. I\'m not talking Hudson vs. Chesapeake here, but literally one school form another, move up or down the coast a number of miles during the migration, and figure out where you are in the chain of schools stretched along the coast by recognizing some of the attributes of the fish you were catching up-migration about a week ago. Doubt this if you must, DZ, and I am sure you will. You just don\'t know what the life was like. Regards, Bassdozer Ghost Fish! The Stuff of Dreams...That Came True Once -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Take this surf legend for what it\'s worth, guys. Don\'t start telling me I am full of bull, cause I\'ll only tell you to go pound sand, tough guy. The giants that came in at Block for only a few years were incredible fish, bigger than you probably realize. It definitely seemed to me there was a certain \"core group\" of those huge fish that, shall we say, were a \"family\" of big fish that physically resembled each other, perhaps related by birth or perhaps with physical features - hard, dense bodies and snout-like heads - molded by an offshore existence. In my opinion, this particular phalanx almost always stays far offshore not even coming close to any islands. So far offshore that they hardly ever encounter man. Why this legendary school hit Block? Maybe it\'s a natural phenomena - like a comet that only orbits close enough to be within our sight every hundred years or so. Maybe Nature has given them a primitive bio-cyclical instinct that drives the species to deviate from its normal course once in a lifetime in order to cyclically and instinctively explore all options to ensure its survival. Or maybe they were there to recruit other big fish coming down the coast, to muster with them and lead them offshore. No one knows why they were there, but one thing is sure, we have not seen them since. Sure, there are many other aggregations of big fish that take traditional coastal routes going down the islands or right down the mainland, but that\'s not the elusive school of giants I am writing about here. I\'m talking about ones that altered their traditional deepwater offshore routes and swam south past Block for only a couple of years. Most likely, these are the \"ghost fish\" that winter-over 100 miles off the Carolinas. Every 5-10 years, there are reports of Carolina deep sea commercials meeting up with them far offshore in the winter - but not for long. This is most likely a very broad area off the Carolinas that adult eels from the mid-Atlantic pass through during mid-winter as they migrate back to the Sargasso Sea to spawn, but no one knows too much about how the eels do that or where they go either. These bass stay on the bottom in deep water and usually migrate north in springtime far ahead of the mackerel migrations where a very few are occasionally caught deep offshore by long-liners by accident. They use offshore water and feed on winter groundfish and pelagics like squid and sea herring. They are big, fast-swimming and streamlined. In fact, the snouts and heads on the truly big members of this family get super, super pointy and they always reminded me of mean-looking alligators in that respect. No doubt, this head shape can be an advantage for swimming long distances more easily. There\'s less hearsay as to where they might summer-over, but my suspicion is it\'s gotta be offshore of Arcadia, Canada. Whatever, they usually migrate last south late too, using their offshore express lanes. I believe this is a school of huge offshore fish that winter far off the Hatteras and rarely ever come within fishing range. Most people believe there is a separate Hudson stock, separate Delaware and Chesapeake stock...and a few say there\'s an old stock of fish that still persist in rivers of the southern Carolinas, wrapping round to Florida\'s Gulf Coast. In fact, I believe that there are (or were...prior to man\'s intervention) some fish that winter-over and are native to practically any freshwater creek that can sustain them without freezing them solid. Even still, the smaller, resilient pre-migratory juvenile fish can withstand being frozen solid in a state of suspended animation...and they will thaw out just fine. However, the larger the fish get, the less able they are to withstand freezing or harshly cold winter water in these \"local\" freshets. As they get moderately bigger, they start wintering over in moderately bigger rivers near to their natality. Eventually, they\'re all funneled into the very big catch basins, rivers and estuaries - the Hudson and Chesapeake being the two biggest and best-known of them. Now, let\'s talk about the big schools of predominantly thirty to fifty pounders that have been identified as wintering-over offshore of the Hatteras Banks. The fish on these wintering grounds have really only been pinpointed with any precision during the last fifteen years. It is interesting that these are not exclusively Chesapeake fish. To me, they are big specimens of \"every fish\" of every natality up and down the coast - all mixed stocks wintering together off the Hatteras. But even these fish are small compared to the extremely big ones that eventually grow so large that they find the known Hatteras grounds to be too inshore and intolerable for them. They increasingly prefer to winter-over more offshore - the bigger they become - the deeper and further offshore they will winter - and tend to remain for the rest of their lives even though they do migrate up and down the full range of the coast - hardly ever encountering a hook. So, these are all the super-cows of every natality - the very best and fittest of the species from the entire coast all together leading an exclusively offshore existence. Why so distant and elusive? Why not come into our grasp and swim into our range so that we can catch them? Maybe it\'s God\'s way to ensure a special reserve of prime fish will always be waiting far offshore in case the entire inshore striper population ever faces a calamity of disastrous proportions. A calamity from which it cannot rebound. It could happen, you know, and it could be man that makes it happen - massive destruction of the coastal environment, commercial and recreational fishing pressures, dumping man\'s harmful wastes and contaminants not very far offshore, heavy industrial and residential development of waterfronts, dammed rivers and wetlands, toxic spawning and nursery areas, polluted waters, inedible fish. Why? Nature rarely puts all her eggs into any one basket. There are many exceptions - in fact, every diversity exists within Nature. Under Her plans, many specimens of every species do not live where, how, when or within what our scientists prescribe to us as their so-called normal ranges. Especially under the sea, there\'s so much we don\'t know yet. And when it comes to the ghost fish, Nature has intended for us to never really find them. They\'re out there. It\'s true...to me and to a few other people too. Definition of true? It\'s what I believe the glorious mystery of fishing is to me and how I do it...which may not be someone else\'s definition of what fishing is to THEM and how THEY do it. Well, I\'ve told you more about the ghost fish than I should have already. They\'re there for you guys to dream about, and if you want to tell me I am full of it or invented it, I will just laugh at you anyway, so DON\'T EVEN BOTHER TO DO IT! But now, here\'s something else I will tell you about Block, and don\'t spread it around either: Big schools of fish typically surface out of the deepwater on SE winds about 1/2 mile offshore between Old Harbor and Green Hill. They stack up in a blue hole that you can see if you go up on the cliff over the left hand rim of the bowl that contains the Sh*t Chute. Like, there\'s a church on that promontory, and you take a trail to get up there that starts over near the spring. Well, from up on top, you can look towards 1 o\'clock, and if the visibility and sea conditions are good, you can see huge brownish-copper schools of bass far offshore in the blue hole. They usually come up there around 9-10 in the morning, and what they do is called \"muster\", which is to send out a chain or relay race of scout bass, that are hyperactive biologically, and that race down the shoreline to detect enough food to sustain the school. This is serious scouting, and the bodies of the fish that function as scouts often transform into big heads, fins, tails with thin bodies. If the chain of scouts don\'t circle back up their living chain and return to the school before dark, then the rest of the school will follow the chain down onto the shoreline after after dark. They generally will not eat, until the chain of fish draws them into heavy bait, when pods of bass will begin splintering off, the school starts to disperse and basically eats the beach. But the end of the chain keeps swimming further until they find so much bait, that the instinct to gorge overpowers the instinct to scout, and there you have it - an unbelievable blitz! Often, the scouts, or \"racers\" as they are known, would not detect bait, and the mustering schools would not come up on the beach at all, but just vanish by nightfall. But, in the meantime, some of the locals would take boats out to the blue hole and tong them. But when they do come up on the beach, they head towards the jetty at Old Harbor, bank a turn off that and proceed down through Old Harbor, Green Hill, Southeast Light, Snake Hole, Black Rock, Tin Lizzie, South Cove, most of the mass ends up at Southwest, where the scouts and then the pods begin circling back on each other and raiding the beach as they circle back. A few adventurous pods may spill over further towards Cooneymus, Dories, Gracies, the Dump, Charlestown, and New Harbor. The next morning, the well-fed school again musters, this time off Southwest, while waiting for all the pods to rejoin. This is usually over the deepwater drop, where boaters will hammer them, but occasionally they muster right on the shoal. When they muster on the shoal, which isn\'t often, they don\'t bite, but some mornings you could have waded out there with a pitchfork and bale them like they were striped hay! When the muster has recollected all its members, it must make an instinctive decision to follow schools that went before them towards Montauk and therefore, make an important migratory decision that the school will migrate down the South Shore to a massive staging grounds offshore of the Hudson Grounds, usually within two weeks time after they hit Montauk. Or the school will instinctively choose to go deep and follow those before them that took the offshore routes, thereby appearing much sooner on the deeper staging areas offshore from the Hudson Grounds. Again, the bass have a continuous stream of living fish moving ahead of them that provide them with reliable feedback as to which route this school should take as they depart from Southwest Point. It\'s winter as I write this. A cold day with a bowl of steaming hot soup set before me...and vaporous dreams of ghost fish that swam within reach of surfcasters once and vanished back into the sea from whence they came. Regards, Bassdozer Whenever this question comes up, I am often reminded of a saying and I hope perhps you\'ve heard this before. The saying asks \"Does art imitate life or does life imitate art?\" What it means in fishing terms is that flytying is very much an art that has been refined to a very high degree of sophistication. It has been refined to such a high degree by flytyers - not by the requirements of the fish. On the other hand, bucktails are CRUDE - nothiong more than a hook fixed in a shaped chunk of lead with a flume of hair and a pork strip. As refined as flies are, bucktail are just as crude in the opposite direction, but they are all that a fish requires to imitate life to the fish. Therefore, whereas a bucktail imitates life, a painstakingly-tied fly imitates art. Sorry if that sounds confusing, but it is a crystal clear (and painfully honest) answer to your question, Jeff B! Yes, you can spend as much time painting and tying different colors and materials into a bucktail -- as much material and time as you spend on a fine fly can also be put into a bucktail -- and it will seem like a magic lure at times. I still make an occasional \"rainbow bucktail\" which has eight colors (equalling 14 bands) of hair on it. The dorsal (or back) color is royal blue, then going down each side are bands of: second powder blue, third light grey, fourth red, fifth orange, sixth dark yellow, seventh light yellow, eighth white ventral (or belly) color. This is not a pattern I dreamed up myself, rainbow originated with Creek Chub decades ago, it was painted by both Danny Pinchney (of \"Danny\" plug fame) and Donny Musso (of Super Strike fame) back when they still made wooden plugs. it was such a hot color, we even sent Pradco a few of Danny and Donny\'s samples, and we had Pradco do special runs for us of rainbow pattern Red Fins in 5\" and 7\" plus 6\" and 7\" Bombers, both straight and jointed in rainbow. We also had Pradco do fluorescent green-backed rainbows for us too! Getting back to the rainbow bucktails though -- yes, there were nights when nothing was working and it SEEMED that I could tie one on and always catch fish with it. But essentially, it is ART not LIFE that appeals to me about the rainbow bucktail, and it is also ART that appeals to flytyers who concoct extremely painstaking and detailed creations. In other words, it usually matters more to the fisherman than to the fish. As far as Tim\'s rationale (as seconded by Dubs) that it is the action that attracts on a jig, and the color (or detailing) that attracts on a fly, I am not so sure I think of it the same way which Tim thinks of it. I don\'t mean to disagree with Tim at all, but I would appreciate being able to add my own two cents based on my experiences, okay? It just goes to show this wonderful sport of ours is a very individualistic pursuit. No two anglers fish the same way -- yet it all works! I have never fished a fly, but as I understand it, hand stripping also imparts quick stops and starts to a fly, and the fly must invariable rise and fall as it is stripped, so it must have some of the action espoused to a jig. Of course, you can also dead drift a fly with the tide as I understand it...but I almost always also dead drift bucktail jigs in the tide too...when I drift a jig, it does not touch bottom at all and I do not jig it at all. Just let it drift with the tide while I only reel in enough line to keep it at a constant depth just above bottom. That is the most effective way I have ever found to fish bucktails -- I rarely jig or use any rod movement. It sounds simple, but it is actually one of the hardest fishing techniques to truly master. As I understand it, my technique with a bucktail is very much identical to a freshwater flycasters dead drift just above bottom with a weighted nymph. No angler-induced action at all to my jig...just a natural drift...and bass cream the daylights out of it! Like Tim, I have also watched bass react to jigs. I have held them perfectly motionless in the water and I have watched hundreds of bass cream totally \"actionless\" jigs. Rest assured, the motionless jig is imitating life...it\'s not the action, bottom-bumping, start \'n stop nor up \'n down that differentiates a jig from a fly. If the truth be known, fancy flies probably do not do any better than plain white ones...and my prized rainbow bucktails probably don\'t do any better than my plain white ones either! Perhaps when it comes to lingerie, then I may agree that the provocative colors and finer details may add more to the level of success than the old-fashoned plain white ones, but the same cannot be said of flies and jigs for fish in my opinion. On jigs and flies, it mostly only appeals to the artist in us! Because I have seen so many bass so close right on the surface in quiet, clear water, I can also confidently say it is not what DitchDigger mentions either. It is not that bucktails are mostly relegated to circumstances where visibility is limited and bass can\'t really see clearly anyway. I have had hundreds of bass (sometimes hundreds per tide) hit motionless bucktails held on the surface in perfect view in clear water. Trust me, they imitate life, not art. Hope it helps, and I will be disappointed in you, Tim, if you do not take exception as usual to my postings. Also, Dubs, you can feel free to bash me too if you like It\'s all good! ROTFLMAO Regards, Russ@Bassdozer.com Glad to hear of a new beginner, and I\'ll try to help you out with some info, Phil. First of all, you say birds can help, and so can ANY signs of ANY other life - baitfish, crabs, even sand fleas or newborn clams washing out of the sand under your boots as the water recedes. Something like a colony of sand fleas or pinky nail-sized clams may seem insignificant, but you must keep in mind that all life, big and small, seeks out the same environmental conditions that best ensure their success. In other words, what\'s good for a flea is often good for a cow bass and vice versa. If I\'m fishing a beach with jetties every few hundred yards, and the only signs of life I can detect are fleas in the sand only on the down tide pockets of the jetties, but no sand fleas on the up tide pockets of the jetties, you better believe I am going to concentrate more time - and catch more fish - where I find the sand fleas. All life requires the same raw materials - sun, oxygen, nutrients, water flow - and acts the same way in response to their environment. If I see birds just sitting far back in low pockets in the dunes with their heads under their wings, you can bet bass are doing the equivalent under the water. If the birds are on the dry sand closer to the shoreline, that\'s good. If the birds are flocking on the wet sand below the berm, that\'s even better. If single birds occasionally scout down the surf line every ten minutes or so, make a note exactly how far they fly offshore, and concentrate to keep your lure (or bait) underneath the path that they fly. Nothing is ever random in Nature, and if birds are flying a trail down the beach, it means that\'s where the action is, not twenty feet before or behind their flight path, but right under it! Get your lure in that zone. Note where the pipers are picking in the sand. Sometimes it seems like they are everywhere on the beach, but if you observe them more closely, you may find it revealing that they seem to be more concentrated on the left rim of bowls - or the right rim. All life is there, a food chain exists where the pipers are. Small fish eat the same things that pipers eat, and bigger fish eat the small fish. All life\'s related and all need the same requirements, okay? Only problem is, all these things can only be easily observed by day, but surf fishing is often a night function. What does it mean? it means to get there before dusk, observe your surroundings, become familiar with them, make casts -- become part of the scene unfolding around you. Stop thinking of the rest of the world - no radio, no TV, no newspaper, no job, no thoughts of the family or friends for the moment. Just observe and look for signs of life - bait, game fish jumping or swirling. At dusk, expect a transition. Look for most of the diurnal species to pull back off the beach. You may see a lot of bird activity high in the air, but they are only transitioning to their night time roosts -- often nearby town dumps! Also, expect the nocturnal species - like gamefish and mosquitos - to pull onto the beach. If you have done your homework -- if you\'ve been on the beach observing and becoming part of the scene for a few hours already, you stand a better chance to be positioned in the right spot and the right frame of mind to catch now. Another important thing you must read on any beach are the weeds. Again, it\'s easier to read the weeds by day than at night. Weeds are usually cursed by anglers because they foul hooks and can even make it impossible to fish. But in actuality, weeds are not always bad. Bait and bass often come down the beach with the weeds. In fact, some beaches have bends or bowls on them that act as weed collectors, and these \"weed holes\" often stack up with weeds, bait and bass. What you must \"read\" is where the \"rim\" of the weed bowl ends. What I mean is that if the weeds are only thick for fifty feet, then cast twenty feet beyond the weed rim. Use the first ten feet of your retrieve just to pull everything into place to focus on the next ten feet of your cast whch is when you will get bit right along the edge of the weedline! Where these weed bowls do not collect, you must also watch the weeds that are deposited along the straighter sections of beach. Sometimes weeds are thick above jetties but not beowl them - or vice versa. Sometimes there are just clean pockets of open surf whereas the rest of the beach is closed down to fishing due to thick weeds. A difference of a 1/2 mile can often put you into - or out of - the flow of weeds coming down a beach. Sometimes weeds are thicker under water, and a surface swimmer (by night) or popper (by day) will remain surprisingly weedless! Some of the more concrete signs to look for - points, bowls, bars and troughs - I\'ve written them up nicely what to look for and how to fish them in an article as J Powers just pointed out at my site at: http://www.bassdozer.com/articles/surf_demystify.shtml What this article tries to teach you is how to develop a pattern to pull fish off any beach. Most anglers do not know how to uncover a pattern, and it is a shame. Why is it a shame? Because catching a fish here and there is good, but if you can detect and follow a pattern, it means that instinctive feeding is occuring. It means fish are instinctivley feeding the same way - but a very narrow and precise way - all up and down the beach, often for many miles. Finding the right lure, using the right presentation, and uncovering the \"spot on a spot\" gives you the key to unlock a repeatable, predictable set of circumstances as you travel from spot to spot along the beach, harvesting bass off every point or bowl as you go! And if all else fails, you cannot go wrong by looking for the very heaviest, frothiest white water on the beach and fishing right in it and right around it. Heavy white water is a striper magnet! White water does not have to be very deep either! I can remember many tides pulling bass out of white water - often on the very tops of sand bars that you would swear were only knee deep. Well, we usually try to stay on shore and \"milk\" these situations when they happen, but every so often, someone will spot a bent rod, came barreling down the beach and automatically wade right out onto the bar that the bass were bellying up to! Remember, bars are for you to stand on in quiet water, but in white water conditions, the bass will often be on the bar with you! Well, I hope you\'ll get something ot of this, Phil! Regards, Russ@Bassdozer Personally, I\'m not a big proponent on using a whole lot of different jig hook sizes. Essentially, I use Mustad 34184 long shanks, which are - and have always been - the most reliable model of jig hook generally on the market. I use 4/0 only when I\'m expecting schoolies under 10 lbs. mostly in the \"back\". Out \"front\" in the surf, I use 7/0 always....except on those flat calm days when it\'s hard to catch them on a big jig...then I will use a smaller 4/0 with a loose drag on a strictly sand beach. On leadheads 2 oz and over, an 8/0 34184 is good. You mentioned the Do-It molds above. Get the round head with round collar in two different molds. The first makes small sizes up to 1 oz, and you should use a Dremel Moto-tool to \"enhance\" the mold to accept a 4/0 34184 in the biggest few sizes. Second, get the round head with round collar mold for sizes 1 oz and above. Enhance this mold with the Moto-tool to accept a 7/0 in the 1 oz amd 1.5 oz, and an 8/0 in the 2 oz cavity. This one mold will handle many situations. In very snaggy bottom, look at the two sizes (small and large) of the Sparky mold. Enhance them as needed for 4/0 (small mold) and 7.0 (big mold) too. These will glide over and resist getting caught in many crevices. The \"arrow head\" is also very good for small plastics (4/0) as is the Gum Drop head for big plastics (7/0). Other than that, I use my own \"boxing glove\" heads and \"football\" heads for fishing in rips -- all with 7/0 34184 up to 1.5 oz. and 8/0 bigger than that. On the very light end of soft plastics, Bass Assassin makes some great jig heads in 1/16, 1/8, 1/4, etc. with a stout hook. The lead head is designed to allow plastics (like Shad Assassins, Flukes, Fin-S-Fish, Slug-gos, etc) to develop an erratic motion. You can see the leadheads on my site (http://www.****.org/****-shop.shtml). Also onthe light end of the spectrum, look into Creme\'s exteremly life-like Lit\'l Fishie shads at http://www.cremelure.com/pg2.htm. It\'s the perfect peanut for light tackle in the shallow bays. As far as other plastics, 4\" and 6\" generic \"no name\" shads (with the \"boot\" tail) are the best baits of all. Flat white is best, second best is white pearl. These are unbranded \"no names\" that cost less than 20 cents each if you buy by the hundred at www.*************.com! If I was forced to only use one lure for school bass, this is it. In addition to white and white pearl, a number of two-tones with colored backs also work: red/white, blue/white, black/white, yellow/white, green/white...but white is tops! A minor annoyance is that unless you rig it perfectly straight, it has a tendency to swim \"handicapped\" in strong currents. You will catch far less fish if your lure swims handicapped. I also like Garry Garland\'s 4\" and 5\" tube baits (see www.canyon-plastics.com). Get the \"rainbow trout\" color for sure! Then there\'s the 6\" Slug-Go by Lunker City. This is my third choice of bait. Sometimes bass like this bait, especially \"deadsticking\" it as it sweeps up and holds motionless in a current. A minor annoyance with this bait is that the plastic head is very thin. Therefore, you must use pliers to crush and remove the lead collar from the jig head first. And fish tear through the thin head very easily - but still productive to use at times. Don\'t be afraid to trim the Slug-go length way down to imitate whatever slimmer bait bass may be feeding upon. Click here for more Slug-go Tips at http://www.bassdozer.com/articles/surf_sluggo.shtml. I like two colors of Slug-gos the best: Golden Shiner (imitates an anchovy), Black with Red Flash (just gets red hot crazy sometimes). As for the Fin-S-Fish, try the Lime Shad color. Is this the best Fin-S color ever? Some think so, myself included. Last, but not least for schoolies, there\'s the original Mister Twister curlytail worms in 4\" and 6\" sizes. Not as \"in vogue\" with fishermen today as much as some of the other plastics...but still deadly. Hope it helps. Regards, Russ@Bassdozer.com There are two main differneces that I perceive, and they are both differences in the tool\'s constitutions being different. The first difference is in the solid construction of a bucktail and pork rind. It can\'t come apart, tear or slip down the hook like a soft plastic dressing. What this means is I tie one on and use it until the fish wear it out -- which can take a long time. Not true with any soft plastic. Soft plastics often only have a life of a few fish before they are torn to pieces. Plus, I always superglue my plastics onto my jug heads. So that\'s a big opportunity loss if I have to stop to glue on a new plastic when bass are in front of me. Sure, I start with a bunch already glued together before I fish, but a few hours into a tide, and I may be gluing and rigging soft plastics in between every coulpe of fish. With bucktails and rind, you have none of this tackle maintenance nightmare. All you ever need to do is sharpen the hook point when needed! Now, it only gets worse with blues. One chop, and your soft plastic is half-gone and totally worthless. But a few chops from blues on a bucktail, and they\'ve probably given it enough of a haircut to make it even more appealing to bass! Most bucktails are tied far too full for bass! The sparsest of bucktails bag bass best. So that\'s the first difference between them -- that the bucktails persist in a solod state whereas the soft plastics have limited life. The second difference is I can really wail a bucktail on a cast, but I cannot wail with a soft plastic. Soft plastics usually waffle rather than wail out there. I generally use several body styles of soft plastics: tube baits, shads, slug-gos, fin-s-fish and others. Most of them do not cast straight, and some will even spin like helicopters unless you baby them on the cast. Did you ever hear a 6\" shad on a jig when you try to cast it hard? That shad tail makes a plplplplplp sound as it goes past, and I\'ve even torn 6\" shad tails right off the shad body when putting too much muscle into them. Other than that, the fish catching ability is comparable between bucktails and plastics. Yes, one size or style of soft plastic will work better than others some nights -- and some nights bucktails work better. But over the course of a season, one is not better than the other. Overall, they are rather equivalent in fish-catching ability, but the bucktail has an advantage of durability and castability. Hope it helps. Regards, Bassdozer Awesome John Member Senior Member Stuck in Turkey! posted 09-02-2002 11:14 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thats my go to plug in Montauk... I was trained by my mentor Ken Kassan \"the tinsquid\" and he was the best pencil popper fisherman I\'ve ever seen. He would walk into a picket line of 100 fisherman catching nothing and pluck out a 30lb bass from right under their noses with a pencil popper.. (he loved a 2oz blue and white on a 9 foot s glass lami) heres a few tricks I learned from \"the master\".. a) get the pencil popper working \"before it hits the water\".. you got to feather the cast to get the line taught then assume rod whipping position and then get it whipping \"ALL BEFORE THE PLUG TOUCHES THE WATER\".. its hard as can be to do this properly but when you get it down it doubles the effectiveness of the plug. The big bass get spooked by the big enitial splash of the plug entering the water in a nose dive but if you got it working in mid air the plug enters the water not with an unatural dive bomber splash but with a chugging \"please dont eat me\" kinda strugle.. the bigger fish instead of being spooked away get very turned on by the easy meal and blast it. b) These babies are an awesome \"night time lure\" if you work then right.. heres how.. first you soak that plug with scent and use a bucktail treble on it rear to hold more scent (this is important).. then cast that baby out and repeat the steps described above.. but after you\'ve been popping for 15 seconds then stop and just reel it in like a needle fish for about 7 to 8 cranks then instantly start popping again and repeat the process. The sound gets then close.. the scent gets them intersested.. the varied retreive makes them strike... they usually hit just when you start the slow retreive after the popping..\"they think its getting away\" I usually use this technique on very windy nights when I cant cast anything out due to the elements but the fish are out far... A personal trick I have added to this technique is to use a \"white pencil on a bright moon\" with fresh squid strips on the rear hook instead of the buck tail.. I\'ve been very successful with this technique! If you try any of these techniques and get something nice please email me I\'d love to hear from you... One of the greatest kicks of this sport is to share techniques \"that work but are not really knon by a lot of folks\"... I\'ll be out there in Montauk this year and if you see a big guy working white pencils on the full moon stop by and say hello... I\'ll show ya how to do it.. Best Regards Awesome John! Awesome John Member Senior Member Stuck in Turkey! posted 08-22-2002 09:36 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- After 15 years of useing the standard 18\" to 24\" mono leader to a no 54 dou snap on one end and a rosco barrel swivel on the other setup (this is your standard Long Island Bass pluggen set up)for the last 3 years I\'ve been using a 48 inch leader of florocarbon and tieing directly to the plug when possible.. I have improved my catch and shown a noticable advantage when fishing with my buddies who still use the old rig. Here are my experiences... a) Does tieing directly to a split ring put one in danger of a \"nick or slip\" in his knot? \"Yes\" but this damger will decrease as the leader test goes up and after 50 pounds I really wouldnt worry about it... in the lower tests it is important to use a knot that employs a \"double through\" insertion through the split ring so that you will have two strands of leader through the split ring. 2. Does using a split ring on the nose of a bomber change its action? \"Yes\" a) A duo lock to a split ring on the nose of a bomber will it run a bit deeper with a slower \"roll\" and softer wiggle. (good for stormy conditions and moving water, or a good back sweeping surf) b) A duo lock directly to the nose of a bomber will give it a sharper wiggle and it will ride a wee bit higher...( good for calmer nights) c) Tied drictly to the nose \"With a tight jam knot\" will give it a very pronounced roll and wiggle.. (this is great for windless dead nights and slack tides) d) Tied directly to the nose with a loop. Produces a softer roll and gentle wiggle. (Good for clear water and a fast moving tide) Am I leary when I tie directly to a split ring? \"yes\".. have I ever been burned with big fish \"Yes\" twice and both large....(but on both occations the leader was only 30lb test)... On darters and wood plugs I seem to prefer a snap... the plugs just \"sway\" better.. This has been what I have experieneced through the years... Awesome John Member Senior Member Stuck in Turkey! posted 04-01-2002 02:55 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What is knowledge if you dont share it with your friends?... Ok friends who have failed with some great productive lures here are some tips from your fellow surf caster that also made the same mistakes you did \"back when\"... For those who failed with darters.... Darters are one of the greatest surf lures of all time. The most common mistakes made (I was guilty of these too before I got wise to the their secret) \"you have to use them in moving water or else their fish appeal is reduced severely\" and second is that most people over fish them by adding too much action. Try this---> do nothing except keep in touch with the lure by reeling in the slack very very very slowly and when there is no slack do not reel at all! The lure will turn at one point in the rip and start to strugled against the current. If your gonna get a hit it will be within the next 15 seconds.. after that ist no longer prime time... but it can still happen so be prepared.. Do not attemopt to fish a darter like a bomber.. they are two different animals... with a darter the moving water and your patience in doing nothing but keeping the lure \"in line\" will do the trick. One other thing I do is that I use alot of scent on daters. Try it it will work for you and if there is no moving water go to the redfins and mombos. If you got waves and wind then chuck out bombers megabaits. But when the rip starts racing reach for that deadly darter.. cast and do nothing!!!!!!! Those who have failed with Yo-zuri mag darters.. try 30 pound floro carbon leader tied directly to the split ring instead of that 50 pound mono and number 54 duo lock snap youve been using. If you use a cross lock sanp swivel its that much worse. Use light floro and use a good \"double through\" improved clinch knot.. Again try to do nothing and do not use a retreive at all instead just keep in touch with the lure and just do not let the line go slack. You need moving water with all darters but the Yo-zuri will produce on beaches during slack tied as long as their are some waves and wind. The bronze Mag Darter was my \"killer plug at Montauk last year\".. \"again pour on that scent baby!\" For those who have failed with the crippled Herring... that is a big storm lure... when the wind and waves are going nuts I love to snap on a big cippiled herring and cast into big water with a big stick. If you have a 12 footer and some spunk tied on a 5 oz and hit the beach during a storm you will not be dissapointed. Try a slow jigging retreive and a bottom crawl. If that dont work try a change of speed retreive.. if the fish are there they will hit it... on a normal day they are too bulky but during a storm they rule..\"along with the other crowbar tins like the heavy deadly dicks, Hopkins and the ever awesome 6oz diamond jig!!!!!! For those who failed with cystal minnows... Take off the split ring and use a longer 4ft leader of light test florocarbon with no snap tied directly onto the nose of the minnow with a perfection loop. Also your not going to get results from this plug using 20 pound test running line...(unless there is good waves and running water to add action to the plug the heavy running line will snuff out the balance of the lures action) 15 pound test maximum for a cyrstal minnow or use braid. Those who have failed with a shallow mac.... Many people say these lures raise fish but no real hits... 2 cc\'s of bunker oil loaded into that sucker adds the missing appeal my friends... For those who failed with the Dannys... Most peole fish em too fast so that they go under the surface. That lure must stay on top. If you dont see a \"V\" wake they aint gonna work. The Danny is one of the premier teaser and plug combo champs... patience and scent! reel slow... more slow\'\'\'\' The stubby needles never worked for me neither... I think there is something in my subconcous that turns me off to that plug even befor I use it. a \"Stuby Needfish\" come on ... dos\'nt sound manly to me... Thats it for me... keep up the learning proccess my friends.. nothing is more fun than that first big striper you catch on a lure that you thought really sucked. You get that glowing feeling like \"hey I\'m really learning this $#it!\" hee hee hee With a pencil popper put the butt of the rod between your knees and lock it tight with your legs. Right hand reaches up just below the first guide and holds the rod and at the same time pinches the line. Then you shake the rod \"briskly\" forward and back while reeling in slowly. The idea is to not make the plug move to far across the water but to make it struggle in one spot. When your doing it right the plug should look like \"flipper the dolfin doing a tail stand\" with 90 percent of the lure out of the water slamming itself from side to side. Another secret with pencils is to feather your cast (put a finger on the spool lips to slow dont the line flying off during the end of the cast) This will take out all the slack in the line so that you can get that pencil popping the very second it hits the water. The pencil popper used propperly will allow you to enjoy some of the most visually pleasy strikes in surf fishing. Keep practicing belive me its worth the extra effort. 99 percent of the time for scent I will use \"Actual scent\" by Yo-zuri.. I use Squid on darters and bucktails and sardine and herring on swimmers. I have found for plastics that the smelly jelly works but for plugs I personally prefer the Yo-zuri Actual scent. I have constantly outfished guys standind next to me in rips (who are much better fisherman than me) due to that squid scent on my big plugs. bassmaster Forum Leader posted 10-15-2002 06:23 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- On that needle You want to paint that Yellow and silver and weight it so it slow sinks, Your going to Use it like a pencle popper, only You dont know it Yet... You need to slim the middle down a bit and get a nice taper in the front of the plug. You want to make a floating needle in black, it will just barely float level with a slight angle so it will cast, The color shall Be Black and Black shall Be thy color, You will paint it black and only black untill further notice You want to make a set of floaters in black,,, black and purple,, black olive silver belly with red fogged in around the eyes or on the nose. Purple and silver is good to.... then You want some slow sinkers in solid black and make some in the above colors and some with blue around the eyes with green fogged in on the sides,Killer last week,,, then fast sinkers in forest green,,, black,,,, black and Yellow,This color for another type of floater a verticle floater, Killer, Lost Mine 10\" plug to.... allso on the fast sinkers Make them skinny to cut through the water and look like sand eel as far as the profile go\'s well You make Your own plugs now so now comes the barely legal plugs as in a super slow sinker, Ya know the type that says I aint goin down there,they will eat Me. It sits in the water then Pukes slow into the depths of the water Like a slow sinking fly line.... toss this into skinny water and on a bar and let the tide move it while You only keep Line Tension on it....... when the Plug comes close to the waves breaking on shore reel it slow.. a verticle floater is good for Big wood that You want to cast far But still float and doubles as pencle popper. You want the nose to poke out of the water.. Make stubbie and small needles, Make a set of colors and sink them little suckers, they need to Die in the mouth of a fish. You can use pork rhind on the end with kille results to... allso make Yellow and white on all needles You make and a green back yellow Belly. and Make some pink needles to, Not Rude pink, try to tone the pink down, You can pearl it with Peal x pigment, Mix with epoxy. OH DID I FORGET BLACK AND GOLD!!!!!! U must have black and gold allso.. the fast sinkers are for fast nasty surf or for faster water where fish are not coming up.. tune Your plugs for Your working enviroment. Rember thats why U build plugs....... Hope this helps Eels are EASY to catch. Takes a little time and effort. Get a killie (or eel) trap and get some horsehoe craps as bait. You will need a cart to keep them alive . You could build one easy or you could keep them alive in a large paint bucket (2 bucks at home depot) by drilling lots of holes in it and sinking it with a big rock inside. But you can\'t keep more then 30 or so in the bucket. You can use somethng else for bait (ie clams) but horsehoe crabs work 10X better. Place in a marina, tied to the pole off your dock. (they like the mud, don\'t put it on a sandy bottom) If you check it and CLEAN it and re-bait it once every 3-4 days you will have hundreds of eels for the fall. (eels don\'t like dirty pots for some reason) I use to do that all summer and by fall I would have 200+ eels ready to go. (Now I make a deal with a commerical guy directly who delivers 200 eels to me and it lasts the whole season. The killie trap works good too. They make eel pots witch are nicer and bigger and you can get them from the commerical fishing supply. Keep the inlet small, you don\'t want eels as thick as your arm in there....maybe you do? ;-) Two pots will catch you plenty of eels for fishing. I have kept eels alive in thoses big plastic paint buckets (drilled)for over a year no problem without any attention. They are amazingly tough and eat each other when one dies. 2 years ago I left a bucket tied to Paines Dock on BI and I left it over the winter and when I pulled it up the next fall nearly all of them were still in there happy to see me. I also had some in a salt pond in stoington CT that I had forgotten about for nearly 2.5 years, the buck was pretty rank but they were still alive in there. RogerSmith Member Posts: 25 Registered: Dec 2001 posted 03-21-2002 01:39 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A beginner\'s questions perhaps, but worth exploring folks\' opinions. In short, how does the weather effect the stripers in the surf? I have gotten a very basic comprehension of the importance of structure, tide, and water temps, but I have noticed comments like \"a cold front came through and shut down the fishing\". Considering that the ocean temp rarely is affected over the short run (a day or two), why does this matter so much? Do bait fish respond dramatically and head for deeper water? I know that a storm tossed rough sea can disorient bait fish or churn up clams for forage. Considering the reports of early bunker arival, why should a sudden cold snap slow down striper\'s feeding? Could be I am missing the simple answer here, just wondering. IP: Logged Soundfisher Member Posts: 10 Registered: Mar 2002 posted 03-21-2002 03:00 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Roger: A few things that I have learned... When the air temp drops dramatically like it has over the last few days, especially with the north/northeast winds, it appears the fish tend to stay offshore. Depending upon where you are (I\'m on the CT. shore), a northerly wind almost cancels out the incoming tide. When this happens (I am looking out my window right now as the tide is coming in), the water is very calm and flat, which is not exactly where you usually find Stripers. Also, sudden barometric fluctuations caused by storms tend to keep the fish offshore. It usually take a day or two for them to come back. Also, I know one day of cold weather wouldn\'t seem as though it would affect fishing, but it does. Many spots where the Stripers congregate are in spots or holes where water temps tend to increase rather quickly. If these spots are cooled off from a passing cold front, it is not as likely to find our Striped friends in one spot, rather they are dispersed all over the bay, river, inlet, or have gone out to sea. I may not have answered all your questions, but I hope this helps. Soundfisher [This message has been edited by Soundfisher (edited 03-21-2002).] [This message has been edited by Soundfisher (edited 03-21-2002).] IP: Logged MediaGuy1 Member Posts: 13 Registered: Nov 2001 posted 03-21-2002 11:21 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I had heard once that Striper\'s will feed at the approach of a low pressure system. They were around Union Beach last Sat night before the weather got messy, maybe it\'s true (I guess it was also fairly warm all week till then, too). Anybody else ever hear this or know it to be true? Thanks IP: Logged Soundfisher Member Posts: 10 Registered: Mar 2002 posted 03-22-2002 11:11 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mediaguy: Good point! Judging from past experience, and looking back at my logs, I have caught more fish just prior to a storm preceeding a warm weather trend. It seems as though they know they need to feed prior to the storm. That is why I mentioned barometric readings in my previous post. Thanks for bringing this point up! Take care, Soundfisher IP: Logged Mike Member Posts: 138 Registered: Feb 99 posted 03-22-2002 06:50 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I\'ve experienced many a good bite with an approaching low pressure system. I\'ve seen largemouth go on a feeding frenzy under these conditions. I\'m sure it applies to most fish both freshwater and saltwater. From what I\'ve seen on other posts and some experience: East wind pushes bait into the shore bring in the fish. West wind pushes bait out and flattens surf which stripers dislike. Southwest wind causes an upwelling of cold water dropping the surf temps. as much as 15 degrees thereby shutting down the bite. Northeast wind causes heavy surf which breaks up the clams and brings in bigger stripers to feed. The best day I ever had was a day with no wind, a flat surf, and hardly any clouds in the sky (mostly bright and sunny). Everyone was catching bass from 30 to 40 inches on every cast so go figure. The fish don\'t read the books. However, this was in Nov. during the Fall bait and striper migration. I think that in most cases, barring blitzes, the above can be used as some type of guideline. TimS Administrator Who\'s countin\'? Your humble host! ;-) posted 06-04-2002 09:11 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I hear that Steve...starting this month I\'ll be plugging stripers from places that are actually dry in between waves People are often hurting themselves looking for the deepest water to throw bait/lures in - there are cases when the deepest water is a good idea...but there are more times when the best water is more important than the deepest water. Rolling white shallow water is usually much better than deep, still waters. Now rolling deep waters are perty good, too TimS 6/10/02 8:20:00 AM Submitted by Gerry, BFHP from VIRGINIA says Reading the beach....... It is usually a lot easier to read the beach at dead low tide. As Patrick said a lot of it is watching the wave action. Wave\'s breaking or white-water rolling and thrashing (as opposed to quieting down and subsiding) indicate shallow water. The quiet areas usually indicate deep water. An abrupt drop off (on the inside of the bar) or along the shore line will be evident from the wave action going from boiling whitewater to literally smooth water in a very short distance. On the shore line it will be reversed. Smooth water with abrupt breakers on the inside. In a lot of cases the beach will have a steep incline into the water. That abrupt lip along the beach is one of my favorite areas for stripers. They like to get small baitfish that are caught in the backwash. A pool is a large deep area, typically there is a inflow area where wave driven water flows over a bar or up over the beach and then into the pool. A well formed channel can be made by this rushing water and will act as a concentration point for bait fish. The game fish tend to follow since the pickings are easy. These channels are my number 1 pick for flounder on a falling tide or at low tide. Work a white grub on a small lead head just above the bottom along the edges. Flounder will attack out of no where. Sometimes you just have waves washing over the sand bar into the pool. This is a good area to toss a grub up onto the bar and let it wash into the pool. Great tactic for flounder, trout, and puppy drum. At the other end of a pool there will be an outflow area. Typically you can see the water movement (or things of the surface moving) towards it and a cut in the bar where the water drains. Theres are great areas for faster more aggressive fish like blues, and spanish mackeral. Metal plugs like a Hopkins, Sting Silver or KastMaster are my choice here. Points on the beach usually signify the end of a pool and an area of water flow. So naturally they tend to be good areas to fish. Gerry is the creator and editor of the Bass Fishing Home Page. He frequently fishs the Virginia\'s Occoquan Resevoir and Potomac River. 6/10/02 3:54:00 PM Submitted by ArtsNFlies.com from ALABAMA says Tides and fish That\'s probably one of the most interesting and irritating aspects of surf fishing! ;-) Some places will produce fish on either tide (you may have to fish differently depending on the tide). But some places will only produce on one tide. Or at least produces infinately better on one tide. And unfortunately unless you know which tide you\'ll be wasting time. Unless someone specifically tells you otherwise you need to just put in the time and figure it out. While nothing beats first-hand experience there are some good books that illustrate reading stucture such as \"Inshore Fly Fishing\" by Lou Tabory and \"Flyrodding the Coast\" by Ed Mitchell. Don\'t let the titles deter you. The aspects of reading the water and identifying bait are universal to all methods of fishing. 6/10/02 6:23:00 PM Submitted by BillJ (207.239.16.227) from TEXAS says surf structure Look at the beach itself. Long sloping points into the water form a structure in the first gut - excellent as the tide is finishing coming in. Is there a washout on the beach? Use it on a falling tide - small crabs and crustaceans are more likely to be washed out here. On just a regular beach, I prefer an incoming tide. If I\'m fishing near a river mouth or a pass, an outbound is when I like to fish. Watch the baitfish, too. See what path they take from the beachfront out over the first sandbar. Schools of bait will follow the same path and get ambushed in the same places. If you are having trouble reading the surf, look for where the game fish are feeding - that\'s the place to key in on. All of the above statements are the opinion of the author only. They are not meant to be the be-all and end-all. Just my observations. Actually, I\'ll fish any tide I can - just as long as the water is moving. squidder Member Senior Member Battin down the hatches.....It\'s gonna blow. Key is finding a place to that will be fishable...there won\'t be many but they are there. Good Luck and be safe. The squidder MJPonticel Member How long after a blow like this one that we are going to get before the water is ok to fish???????? Plug Administrator 2,000 Post Club! Perched in the Pulpit! quote: Originally posted by MJPonticel: How long after a blow like this one that we are going to get before the water is ok to fish???????? This one is intense but short, less than 24 hours. The wind is supposed to be kickin NW by tomorrow afternoon and not subside until late Thursday. Conditions should be fishable late Wed. early Thur. Inlets will be prime Thur. night Fri. morning. A blue norther with the harvest moon coming into full... look out! Ben Lippen Member 1,000 Post Club! quote: Originally posted by Plug: A blue norther ...look out! Whats a blue norther? Plug Administrator 2,000 Post Club! Perched in the Pulpit! A blue norther is one of those hard, cold, snot-sucking, NW winds that often accompany the passage of a deep low pressure system/cold front. My favorite fall wind. If it migrates, it\'ll move on a blue norther and a fall full moon. You yanks are gettin\' ready to lose some fish. This was a topic brought up by someone, and i wanted to give you some ideas on how to do this, while this fishery is going on at this time of the year. Its one of the simplest ways to catch stripers in our area. I have to say that Togmaster was the first to discover that the striped bass would stack up behind the clamboats while they were towing their dredges. In the early 90s, Mike was running a fellows boat from Freeport to the Rockaway reef area, during July. They would seabass fish on the eastern portion of the reef and notice that they would catch a number of stripers once they moved a slight distance from these little hangs. He also noticed balled up readings in this area, but always would run back to the hangs to pick up some very nice sized seabass that happened to be in this area, that year. The next day he was running out to a seabass spot with his machine on. He saw the same readings that he had the day before, and dropped onto them. Well he was suprised about the amount of striped bass that he would catch... just following and dropping on the readings, which were stripers following the clam boats. I must remind you, that NO ONE was doing this fishing at the time. Their were no boats in the area, and Mike thought this was just a one shot deal, and got lucky. But after running a few more seabass trips, he would stop behind a clam dredge, and catch a number of stripers. He refined his technique down, so that he would plan his trips when the clam boats were working, which was in the morning, then he would hit his seabass hangs later on. These trips were a blast since, you got a shot at two great tasting fish, and could use basically the same tackle for both. We later realized that the striped bass would stack up in the morning and follow the clam boat, getting easy meals from the dredges...after the clam boats went in later in the day, the striped bass would move onto the reef. It was a continuing cycle that Mike had all to himself. Later on a sharp Freeport charter boat picked up on Mike fishing around this area, and this is how a bunch of fishermen from Freeport to Sheepshead Bay, started to fish \'the clam boats\' for bass. The big thing with this fishery, was that you could catch the stripers during the summer, close to the beach, when everyone else had trouble catching any amount of keeper sized fish during the day. The amount of fish you would catch, would easily range as high as 50, a man! It amazed us that the body of striped bass in this area was so high. It turned out that the clam boats had concentrated a big body of fish, which like routine, would follow the clam boats while they worked. Ok, now we have the background on how this fishery started, lets get to what you need. TACKLE>>> Reels...this is shallow water fishing with fish running from shorts to the rare occassional 20lb bass...a newell 220 with 50lb power pro is my perfect setup, but a newell 229, or 322 would be a excellent choice. Penn 145 and 146 reels are also be another choice for this fishing. The Jigmaster 501L with a 99 pinion making the reel 3.75 to 1 would be one of my favorites for this type of fishing. Shimano trinidad, 12 and 14, Diawa SLX 20 & 30 would also be a good choice of reels. Line...i found power pro 50# to be perfect but you can use power pro 30# since most fish run from 24-36 inches. For mono, 20-30lb test is all you need. Hooks...You can use a standard beak hook from any hook manufacturer in sizes 3/0-6/0, with or without slices in the shank to hold the clam. We use Gamakatsu octupus hooks, from 3/0-6/0 with 4/0-5/0 the preferred size. We have found that in a pinch you could use blackfish Virginia hooks in sizes 3 and 4, and they work fine. I have found the VMC steelhead bronzed hook in 4/0 size sold by GOFishing.Com to be just right, for those looking for a good alternative to the other above listed hooks. Rods...i have found that a number or blanks work fine for this fishery...you are fishing shallow water from 25-45 feet and you are just dropping your bait down to the bottom. I prefer a BMB963M Lamiglass cut black slightly from the tip. Lamiglass 1143F cut to 10 tips, work just fine. I also use a original Sabre 1660 which is rated for 20 (30) 50 and found that it has the perfect action to fish from a small boat. The newer graphite blanks like a GBT841M or the lighter GLB90 1M would be fine. Contact Capt. Neil for ideas on different blanks for this fishing. Just remember you can use anything rated from 20-50lb and would fish fine. Sinkers....4-6oz is all you need... The Rig....their are two types. The FISH FINDER where you use a slide with a piece of mono that is about 8 inches in length, to your sinker, and then attach a 3-4 foot leader of either mono or flurocarbon leader from 20-30lb test, or a 3 way. The 3 way we make is a little different that what you have seen. Since we sometimes fish for sea bass with the same tackle, we came up with a rig that makes switching from one to another simple and quick. We use a small split ring where we attach 3 small swivels. You can use 30-40lb split rings, and 30lb-75lb black swivels. You can pretie you leaders, like i said early in 3-4 foot sections and put a swivel on the end and the hook on the other. The one you make up for your sinker is 2-3 feet long. You rarely lose sinkers with this type of fishing, so you do not have to make up many setups going from the sinker to the keyring. Now depending how the fish are biting you can fish with preemade rigs that have 20#,25#(preferred), 30# test. If the fish are extremely line shy which happens, just make a dropper hook rig without any swivels and tie a 3 section of fluro to you hook. But this is very rare, that the fish do not bite. Getting back to the sliding fishfinder rig, it works fantastic, so you can experiment with what you find fishes best. Just remember that with a this fish finder rig, you want to have your bait off the bottom, which is why we make the 8-10 inch lengths of mono we tie to the slide. Leader material....anything from Hi Seas, Ande Clear, and Berkely COILED leader material work fine in 20-40lb test... I would just pick up a coiled length of 25lb test if i had to pick one lb test. Fluro in 20-30# test, but we have noticed that you really do not have to use fluro with the way the fish bite. We keep it available though for those few days when the fish are picky. Bait...FRESH SKIMMERS! Period...no salt, no two day old mush. These fish want fresh skimmers! The Technique....locate the clam boats which will be working close to the beach, and motor up behind them...DO NOT get in their way...watch out for their dredges and outriggers. You should read fish on your bottom machine behind the clam boat...Drop your baited skimmer clams down, and hold on...these fish will take you bait like a codfish does, so hold on! There is no finesse, just a nice yank. You will notice many times that crew memebers on the clam boats will be fishing when the clam boat is pulling up their dredges, and catching fish. This gives you a idea of how comfortable the striped bass are when the clam boat is making this racket with their dredges. You can approach the clam boats pretty close, but like i stated earlier, keep out of their way when they work, and watch for lose lines that the vessel may have in the water. The season...We usually see the clam boats coming out of Debs/Jones, all times of the year. But it is when the Striped bass set up off our east beaches during the time period from June to September that we do this type of fishing. They will be towing in the same area everyday, as long as it is not nasty out. Some work tight to the beach and some work slightly off the beach....some tow straight lines east to west, or vice versa, while other tow making circles. Watch both of them and see which ones you are comfortable to fish behind. What happens when the clam boats go in later in the day? Thats when you can switch your rigs and put your seabass rigs on...High-Low or just one hook that runs off that split ring with a 40lb leader, is all you need. Just get onto the reef, look for a piece and make drifts. Along with the sea bass, you will hook a occassional striped bass. We have found this to be one of the most fun ways to catch a decent amount of stripers in our area, without needing exotic tackle, refined techniques, or having to hunt to find the fish. It is a daytime fishery, where you do not have to wake up extra early in the morning to beat other fishermen out to the area. Just take a look for the clam boats, have your fresh skimmers ready, and setup behind them. Good luck and remember the regulations concerning the amount of fish that can be kept per person in NY waters. I hope you enjoy doing the clam boat striped bass fishing, as much as i do.... EC NEWELL MAN When the Forsythia (sp?) begins blooming look for Yellow Perch on their spawning run. When the Spring Peepers begin chirping look for shad to begin running. Also look for crappies in their prespawn staging areas. When the Dogwoods are in bloom bucketmouths are on the beds. When the trees are orange fish the northwest corners of the lake. When there\'s frost on the pumpkin, the Red Drum are running. Also, when the dogwoods are out the fish are about. When the dogwoods blossom the blackfish are biting. When the May full moon is bright, mutton snapper will bite. Wind from the north Fisherman go forth Wind from the east Fish bite the least Wind from the south Blows the bait to their mouth Wind from the west Fish bite the best. When the lilacs bloomed we would start fishing for Weakfish with shrimp and small plastic worms on a jighead There\'s an old South Jersey one - \"When the dogwood\'s white, the (black) drum will bite\". When the Yellow Jackets are about, so are the snapper blues. TimS Administrator Who\'s countin\'? Your humble host! ;-) posted 03-12-2001 08:29 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Rips are generally where current flows over a sudden change in depth/contour. There can be rips from the wind piling the water into a jetty pocket, the water would \"rip\" out where it could. Rips can be where two different currents run next to each other. The picture shows a steep beach with cuts breaching a wide, shallow bar as well as sweeping across some sandy points, both big and small. Once the water removes more sand from behind the bar, then holes will form...they\'ll hold fish. Anyway, I figger since that picture show some water that makes me break out in cold sweats, I\'ll scribble on it some and try to unravel some mysteries for you guys looking to understand such a place. ALT=\"\"http://www.stripersonline.com/content/type/61/id/1523653/width/1000/height/1000[/img] The arrows show the water\'s direction. The shallow/deep changes are obvious from this point of view. If you were at ground level or in the dark, you could tell the general depth by the white water. The whiter a wave breaks the shallower the water. If the wave doesn\'t break but crests, it\'s pretty deep. If the wave barely bulges, it\'s very deep. If the wave breaks or crests but then reforms, it was shallow but got deeper...this is a good spot One must consider that all fish want to expend as little energy as possible while waiting for grub. They will station themselves where the deep water butts up to the shallow stuff, the steeper the slope, the more protection from the forces of the current the fish will enjoy..they will look for these spots! The easiest way for stripers to feed is to sit with their noses against one of these drop offs where the water comes directly towards them and over their heads...they\'ll be watching the water for anything resembling a disoriented critter. Wherever you see the smaller arrows that show the water spilling off the points is just that kinda water. In the dark many times you will find the fish feeding right where the waves are crashing...where the big arrows point towards shore. You can see the outter bar in this photo that causes the wave to break. The fish will sit on the shore side of this bar and look for disoriented critters. The best way to fish those spots would be at an angle. That is, you\'d stand on the point if safe and cast just behind the breaking wave at an angle of about 45 degrees. Generally, the water won\'t be coming straight it, it\'s best to cast at an angle at which the water will pull against your lure rather than push it towards you. About the least realistic way to fish this kinda water is also the most popular. Folks will line up with the arrows headed out, the deepest water...they\'ll cast straight out and bring their lures in directly against the current. That\'s wrong...yes, occasionally a suicidal little rat will latch on, but you\'r missing out on the real gems in this water. If the waters too rough or deep to get on the points, the letter \"C\"\'s mark a likely feeding spot near shore. The water that rushes up on the sand pulls back out where marked by the C\'s. Again, you don\'t want to stand at C and cast straight out. Ideally, you\'d stand at B and cast right up nearly onto the sand when the wave is as far up the beach as it will go...then your lure will look most realistic as it enters the strike zone. If you can\'t get to B, get down the beach from C and cast across it...this will work but isn\'t ideal. I put the D\'s on there for you folks who prefer to throw clams....you put a clam on those D\'s and everything is working for ya! The water flow will send your clam smell all over the hole...and any fish cruising in/out of the hole will usually do so along those edges. Funny thing, the fish will often favor one D over the other...it doesn\'t even always make sense, but they sometimes will. Hope this helps TimS Southwest wind and fishing Many surf fishermen dislike and are frustrated by a SW wind. I know I have trouble catching fish under these wind conditions. Here\'s what happens: Although a SW wind blows in a NE direction it does not move the water in that direction. Because of the earth\'s rotation the water current actually does a 90 degree turn and flows in a SE direction. This causes what\'s called an \"upwelling\" in which the warm water on top is blown out to sea and is replaced by the colder water below it right at the surf line. This upwelling can actually drop the surf temperature 10 degrees or more! In addition to the drop in temperature the upwelling also brings up plankton and sediment which dirties the water. The longer the SW winds blow the more pronounced the effect. FOUR STEPS TO HEAVEN ABU 6500CT Mag There are four ways to control a 6500 CT Mag all four need to be in harmony for things to run smoothly. They are: Oil - Centrifugal brakes - Magnets - Line level Too thin oil requires more brakes or mags and less line, too few mags means thicker oil and more brakes, You get the picture. Having used a 6500 CT Mag for field work I would recommend the following: MAGNETS Use three or four of the standard rare earth magnets, suggest you start with four and drop to three only if you need less magnet power braking. They are held in place on the metal keeper plate by magnetism alone. There are seven spaces for magnets but usually only four or five are ctually fitted. Use the positions in the centre of the plate rather than each end. The magnet holder moves via a cam action so with the mags in the middle they move further away than if fitted in the outer spaces when you slide them off as the lead gets away. I normally cast with the slide set on no 4, then ease them off to zero once the lead is well away. When will depend on many things, not least being your own style, ambient humidity and wind direction/speed. OIL Two drops of Yellow Label Rocket Fuel in each bearing. That\'s the oil in the clear plastic tube with a red stripe that came with the reel. Remove bearings from reel and soak in lighter petrol for five minutes, remove and place on kitchen tissue. Leave for another five minutes for all traces to evaporate then add two drops of the oil and allow to soak in past the dust covers. They are pretty fast reels with this oil but should you find that three magnets and no block is too slow, very unlikely, try replacing the Yellow Rocket Fuel with Tournament grade Rocket Fuel. CENTRIFUGAL BRAKES Start with one of the standard items that came with the reel in the plastic bag containing the oil and spanner. You will have to balance mags v brakes for optimum performance depending on your style. You can wind off magnets but you cannot alter centrifugal brakes during the cast. Aim to use mags only in due course, but start with one block until you get more feel for how the reel tune suits your style. LINE LEVEL This is based on 0.35mm mono. If you are using a premium co-polymer line load up to the top of the spool plus another 10 yards or so. Have a few casts with the magnets full on to stretch and bed in the line before going for the big one. The level in unlikely to drop much. If you use a standard C26 type nylon allow overfill a little more then cast make two or three gently casts with full mags. On the third cast let the lead dig in and give the line a good stretch. Rewind under normal pressure and the level should settle just above the spool lip. If you are using the new USA standard 0.32mm Stren line reduce line level by around 10 percent, corresponding to line diameter. Too much thin line means the level will not drop quickly enough during the cast to offer much in the way of natural braking. SPOOL BALANCE However, all the above is of little use if the spool is out of balance. The importance of spool balance when tuning a fast spool cannot be over emphasised. You have to start off assuming the spool itself is in balance, but it is the initial line lay that invariably determines whether a spool runs like a dream or screams like a stuck pig. First time around set the knot to one side of the spool and wind the line on cotton reel fashion for three of four runs across the spool. Then concentrate on feeding it evenly across the spool and fill her up. Now tape it down with some plastic insulating tape run exactly twice round the spool. It must end immediately over where it starts on the spool, an neven overlap will put the spool out of balance. Now with the magnets slid all the way off tighten up the star drag, give the handle a good flip and put it into free spool with the spool rotating as fast as you like. It should be perfectly silent with no hint of vibration. If in doubt spin it again, place the reel on a flat surface and listen closely. If it\'s out of balance it will vibrate and possibly move across the surface in extreme cases. Bad news. Wind all the line off onto another reel and rewind it but rather than an even line lay make it the opposite.Wind on the line but keep it all on the right hand side to make a hump 4mm to 5mm high, then take the line rapidly across to the left and make a similar hump there. Finally a hump in the middle and then even it all out and continue to wind on evenly as normal. Tape down the end, spin and see how it runs this time. If it\'s still not right try ariations of humping left, right, middle or right, middle, left until you achieve vibration free running. You either get it right first time or it may take a little while. Balance is obtained by the lay of the first 20 yards of line. There cannot be to much importance put on this subject. 09-14-2010, 10:05 TimS Humble Head Tyrant Since there\'s pride on the line, I\'m gonna let you in on a little trick that results in many more bites and much higher landing ratio - make sure nobody else is listening Take your various shiny metal albie lures - remove the split ring, remove the treble. Attach about 10 inches of 30# fluoro with a clinch knot - then snell a 1/0 or 2/0 Octopus style hook as close to the lure as possible. Best case scenario is you get it about 1 to 1 1/2\" from the lure. This offers a multitude of benefits over the split ring/treble hook. You\'ll hook more albies - they\'ll stay stuck every time - and in the event the yellow eyed demons show up, you\'ll just be replacing an octopus hook instead of the entire lure - it\'s the proverbial win-win-win scenario TimS Surf Candy flies trailing 40 inches behind hookless pencil poppers.

Looks like a dense but good read.  

 

Does your keyboard have an "Enter" key?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's all properly separated on my computer - no idea why all the formatting disappears when I paste it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Diagnault, Muller, Hromin

 

Look at used options on amazon, I have found that older versions often have great information (particularly on location) and have even found autographed copies for a very reasonable price. 

 

Reading = tight lines

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Southcoastphil said:

Looks like a dense but good read.  

 

Does your keyboard have an "Enter" key?

I know...Damm... Holy Wall of Words Batman. Im not going to even attempt to read that.  Someone needs to learn the power of the paragraph.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Amazing that this thread is still alive after 6 years.

 

My response to the original poster (or anyone else) would be: Any book by Frank Daignault.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to register here in order to participate.

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.