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saltydawg

Practicing Religion

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It took me a long time to understand the left's agenda of secularizing America while at the same time trying to bolster Islam and Eastern religions. The two efforts seem at odds. But at the heart of it is that they are not trying to completely secularize America, but they are trying to secularize Christianity. And in all of my discussions, I have finally understood that it is because they don't believe Christians actually practice religion. They believe Christians are Christians for political reasons, financial reasons, and selfish reasons, but not for spiritual reasons. Now why they decided to be judge and jury on what Faith truly believes in their faith, I don't know, but is an odd way to frame Americans and it explains a lot about why they say and do the things they do.

 

So it comes down to this: no religions should have to "prove" to anyone that their Faith is real or just--the Founding Fathers protected us from that persecution...so why are they still so adamant about doing just that?

 

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Good question. I have a couple of thoughts.

 

 

I suspect that a lot of it has to do with where they live. My guess is that there are rebelious teens in Russia or China becoming Christian capitalists, disgruntled searchers in Iran becoming Bahai, etc. For many years the most common U.S. religious belief system was christian and the dominant political system was conservative. Those who see incompetent practitioners of it all around would certainly lose faith. By "incompentent practitioner" I mean someone who does not live up to the standards of the faith -- which would be all of us who are Christian. There is a line attributed to Ghandi (probably not actually accurate) "I would have become a Christian if I had ever met one." By contrast, they just see images of the Muslim faithful and hear how strictly the laws are observed, so it seems so pure. They see Buddist monks at prayer, not playing Nintendo back at the monistary. The image is perfect, although the practice might not be. In the same way, there are laws which need updating, and those conservatives who resist are seen as heartless. There are dislocated people and those who dislocate them by sending jobs abroad must be callous. If liberals lived in a planned but unsuccessful economy for a while, they would come to appreciate the superiority of capitalism. If they lived in a truly repressive regime, they would thank their lucky stars that the Occupy camps were not razed the way Tiennemen square was. Dreams will always be more attractive than reality.

 

 

Their dismissal of religion also represents the downside of those who seek to inject religion into everything as an added line of justification. Just as the Southern Baptists split from those in the north before the civil war on the issue of slavery, those who think God is a conservative who wants churches to bash liberals muddy the name of religion. The Westboro Baptists do not represent me and my understanding of Christianity, although they are surely people of faith and good intentions. There are clearly issues on which Christians should speak, but when you say to someone "God says you are going to hell because you disagree," it is predictable that they respond, "I disagree and you can't scare me with threats from your creepy, imaginary god either." Render under Ceasar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things which are God's.

 

 

 

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That was well said, MWE.

 

I suppose it's easier to sleep at night if you think you are sticking up for the misunderstood or the outcast, which is funny because that's why we exist today (people delivering themselves from persecution). But I don't see the correlation between majority and the honesty of your belief. Are the Hindus in India disingenuous because they are the vast majority? Are Christians in India acceptable because they are the minority? Or is this just another emotional reaction that has gained steam with the left without ever being examined for logic?

 

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It took me a long time to understand the left's agenda of secularizing America while at the same time trying to bolster Islam and Eastern religions. The two efforts seem at odds. But at the heart of it is that they are not trying to completely secularize America, but they are trying to secularize Christianity. And in all of my discussions, I have finally understood that it is because they don't believe Christians actually practice religion. They believe Christians are Christians for political reasons, financial reasons, and selfish reasons, but not for spiritual reasons. Now why they decided to be judge and jury on what Faith truly believes in their faith, I don't know, but is an odd way to frame Americans and it explains a lot about why they say and do the things they do.

So it comes down to this: no religions should have to "prove" to anyone that their Faith is real or just--the Founding Fathers protected us from that persecution...so why are they still so adamant about doing just that?

 

I'd say you couldn' be more wrong. Religion has no place in government. ZERO. It's not a difficult concept. You're reading WAY too much into it.

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I'd say you couldn' be more wrong. Religion has no place in government. ZERO. It's not a difficult concept. You're reading WAY too much into it.

 

Politics is different from government, Joe. Very different.

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It took me a long time to understand the left's agenda of secularizing America while at the same time trying to bolster Islam and Eastern religions. The two efforts seem at odds. But at the heart of it is that they are not trying to completely secularize America, but they are trying to secularize Christianity. And in all of my discussions, I have finally understood that it is because they don't believe Christians actually practice religion. They believe Christians are Christians for political reasons, financial reasons, and selfish reasons, but not for spiritual reasons. Now why they decided to be judge and jury on what Faith truly believes in their faith, I don't know, but is an odd way to frame Americans and it explains a lot about why they say and do the things they do.

So it comes down to this: no religions should have to "prove" to anyone that their Faith is real or just--the Founding Fathers protected us from that persecution...so why are they still so adamant about doing just that?

 

my discussions with people on the left do not support anything you concluded here

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Quote:

Originally Posted by NS Mike D View Post

 

my discussions with people on the left do not support anything you concluded here

 

seriously it sounds like a manifesto.

 

 

 

Does he really think that ONLY Republicans go to church?

 

 

 

 

 

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At the risk of being a U.S. exceptionalism cheerleader, part of the reason you see many religious traditions come and go is that we not only permit it and revel in it. It is legal in the United States to prostelize for other faiths than christianity or to prostelize for different denominations. It is legal to "convert." It is socially acceptable to hold different religious beliefs, or no religious beliefs -- not equally popular with everyone, but not something for which an "honor killing" is likely to occur. It is legal to criticize religion. What to some means disrespect is in another way a sign of awareness and influence. I'd rather have athiests to debate than athiests within a state religion who undermine it with insincerity and non-commital ceremonial endorsement.

 

All of these elements give the illusion that Americans are not people of faith. In reality we have very high levels of religious participation and faith IN SPITE OF the absence of compulsion. Those who practice religion take it seriously enough to do it voluntarily, not just going through the motions because it was required by law.

 

 

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Here's a persistent Christian problem.

Sorry, but you guys "own" him. WWJD? He'd strike him down in his tracks.

 

Jesus went home to dine with tax collectors, prevented adulteresses from being stoned, and refused to shun lepers. Perhaps you are thinking of the wrong Jesus.

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seriously it sounds like a manifesto.

 

Does he really think that ONLY Republicans go to church?

 

Huh...just re-read. Never saw that. Oh, I get it...you know what I MEANT to type.

 

Let's start easy since it was a long paragraph to read. :squid: The left has made a concerted effort to secularize America...but not by removing all religions. Just the Christian faith. Why?

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At the risk of being a U.S. exceptionalism cheerleader, part of the reason you see many religious traditions come and go is that we not only permit it and revel in it. It is legal in the United States to prostelize for other faiths than christianity or to prostelize for different denominations. It is legal to "convert." It is socially acceptable to hold different religious beliefs, or no religious beliefs -- not equally popular with everyone, but not something for which an "honor killing" is likely to occur. It is legal to criticize religion. What to some means disrespect is in another way a sign of awareness and influence. I'd rather have athiests to debate than athiests within a state religion who undermine it with insincerity and non-commital ceremonial endorsement.

All of these elements give the illusion that Americans are not people of faith. In reality we have very high levels of religious participation and faith IN SPITE OF the absence of compulsion. Those who practice religion take it seriously enough to do it voluntarily, not just going through the motions because it was required by law.

 

Well said!

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seriously it sounds like a manifesto.

 

Does he really think that ONLY Republicans go to church?

Huh...just re-read. Never saw that. Oh, I get it...you know what I MEANT to type.

Let's start easy since it was a long paragraph to read. :squid: The left has made a concerted effort to secularize America...but not by removing all religions. Just the Christian faith. Why?

 

262

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