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Backlash Bill

Braid and spool damage

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In a recent thread I made the generalized statement that I'd heard that braid could cause spool damage and several contributors said it was mono that can do damage and not braid. That set me to wondering where I heard that and I remembered a March 2012 article in a national fishing magazine by Capt. Vince Daniello who quoted his expert Bryce Poyer. Here is what was written.

"Spool distortion from monofilament compaction - the swelling of monofilament line wound tight under full drag and later relaxing - is supposed to be eliminated with braid backing. Not so, says Poyer.Last summer he saw more than fifty spools stretched. Many were backed with braid. 'I think it's that line coming off and going back on under tension. Each time it compacts a little tighter....' "

Maybe this was just one man's experience, but with stronger rods being built by companies like Hardy and reels that are capable of delivering smooth, heavy drags this may be worth considering.

 

Be careful out there,

Bill

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Good point. The best Dacron backing has about 5 to 10% stretch, most superbriads have 5% or less, but repeated re-spooling under severe tension could be a problem.

 

Also, be aware that at least one braided Dacron, Power PRO, is not pre-stretched at the point of manufacture. Unlike gelspun (Dyneema or Spectra) superbraids, some Dacrons may have up to 20% or more stretch. That's about the same as mono. If you use braided Dacron for backing, pull off about 3 feet of line and with gloves on your hands pull hard as you can. If it stretched to 4 feet that line is a problem waiting to happen. Cortland and Sci Anglers backing has minimal stretch.

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Overall the GsP stretch factor is about 9% and it doesn't compact enough to wreck well made reels.

But if you use GsP you need to load it at high tension, and cross hatch the line every few layers..

That's from the inventors DSM HPF in Holland.

Today there is a Lo Stretch mono put out by Platypus Monofilament in Brisbane Australia and it has 9% stretch. The advantages are that it suits beach and surf fly fishing, doesn't get full of sand grit, can be used in a totally mono system, backing, running line and heads. It has a better knot performance than GsP, after

all most knots are designed for mono, and not GsP.

And its cheaper.

MaxG

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Max,

 

Interesting! I would like to try a stiff, low stretch mono for backing. But they dodge the question of the strength /diameter issue which dictates how much backing fits on the reel...of a given strength, and also the dangers of embedding into itself under high tension, which I assume gets progressively worse as the line gets stronger AND thinner.

 

Here are the listed numbers for Platypus Lo-Stretch mono in "backing" strengths:

 

15Kg (0.45 mm) , 24Kg (0.60 mm) and 37Kg (0.77 mm).

 

Anyone offhand have access to Gsp, dacrom and other mono diameters for comparison?

 

I just did some checking. 30# Micron comes in as .53mm. The 15 kg lo-stretch would be smaller and stronger...more capacity...maybe more embed-ability. I might check out both the 15 and 24 kg. I currently use 80# TUF, not necessarily because I think I need 80# backing but at that strength I get diameters I am comfortable handling under pressure AND get less embed problems. The 80# gives about the same capacity as 30# Micron. The 24kg lo-stretch mono light lose some capacity...but if it eliminates ALL embed problems I could/would live with that.

 

PMP

 

 

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Here is the only actual dimensions I've found for JB hollow spectra from the Charkbite website .Being hollow, it is difficult to accurately measure.

 

80lb JB hollow = 0.014" dia. = 0.356 mm

 

Avg. 80 lb mono = 0.034" dia = 0,864mm

 

 

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Based on spools in my line cabinet, not mfg specs:

 

Cortland Micron Hi-Vis yellow 30-pound Dacron - .022

Cortland Green-Spot white 30-pound Dacron - .023

Sci Anglers Hi-vis orange 30-pound Dacron - .019

Sci-Anglers Hi Vis yellow 30-pound dacron - .018

Power Pro gelspun 65-pound - .017

Power Pro gelspun 80-pound - .020

 

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Snookfly,

 

Those are inches, I believe, and agree with the measurement I used above. Convert to mm they are:

 

Cortland Micron Hi-Vis yellow 30-pound Dacron - .022 = .56 mm

Cortland Green-Spot white 30-pound Dacron - .023 = .58mm

Sci Anglers Hi-vis orange 30-pound Dacron - .019 = .48mm

Sci-Anglers Hi Vis yellow 30-pound dacron - .018 = .46mm

Power Pro gelspun 65-pound - .017 = .43 mm

Power Pro gelspun 80-pound - .020 - .51 mm

 

Platypus Lo stretch Mono

 

15Kg 33# .45 mm

 

24Kg 52# .60 mm

 

37Kg 81# .77 mm

 

So the Platypus Lo-stretch mono 52# would be very similar capacity-wise to 30# Micron. It's knot strength would be superior, 20# test heavier, and much cheaper than Gsp. The last ?'s in my mind is what is the stiffness and embed potential?

 

I haven't found a US supplier..yet.

 

Max.....any ideas?

 

PMP

 

 

 

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Peter,that's the first thing that came to mind when Max mentioned the mono.



I'm wondering why ,if it's the same dia as 30lb braid and you don't need the strength,that you would find it neccesary to use the braid? Is there an advantage?



Snookfly,the SA "30lb measurements" of .018 &.019 you've given are for 20 lb backing.



I've been using greenspot dacron for years and have never had a problem w/ it.I prefer it to fly type dacron as it is not so "fluffy" and has a hard waxed finish that lets it lay better on the spool.



Anyone else put a top shot of mono between the flyline and backing?


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Slip N Slide

It's possible they're 20-pound. Got the two spools several years ago from Bruce Richards before he retired at SA and the labels are hand-written. A slip of the marking pen? It's a moot point since I usually use Cortland's Dacron, which 've preferred for many years, and only have short remnants of the SA line left on the spools. The apparent small diameter of the SA line was hard to grab, not so with the slightly bulkier Cortland - either green spot or Hi-Vis yellow. Funny - I may have been comparing apples to oranges and never knew it. Thanks for the eagle eye.

Pete

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Also, be aware that at least one braided Dacron, Power PRO, is not pre-stretched at the point of manufacture. Unlike gelspun (Dyneema or Spectra) superbraids, some Dacrons may have up to 20% or more stretch. That's about the same as mono.

 

Power pro is 100% braided spectra.

 

 

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i have been using western filament tuff for years --some of it is 10 yrs old and still on the same reel and never had any problems with reels. I know Jake Jordan has several Mako reels that has caught who knows how many billfish and tarpon with the same GPS backing and no issues. We use a 100 foot top shot of 50 pound mono between the backing and the head on billfish

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Slip n slide,

Why use 80# Gsp instead of 30# Dacron if I don't neet the strength and diameter/spool filling is the same??

 

Good question. When I said I don't need the strength...I meant between 80# and 50#. 30# Dacron, or really 30# ANYTHING is too questionable (for me) when the breaking strength of most SW fly lines is 30-35#, and I may be using a leader with 20-30# tippet and 40-60# butt. I never know where the leader might hang up, get around. I DON't want the BACKING to break before my leader or line...which hopefully might break in the front taper. But 50# Gsp is way too thin to be comfortable (or safe) in my book for really heavy drag stuff.

 

I have lots of 30# dacron on my reels......all fresh water reels with lines less than 8 wt lines....20# core breaking strength....and typically using much lighter leaders.

 

PMP

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Pez gallo,

Up until recently, Power Pro also marketed a Dacron line, as well as their more famous gelspun line. I believe they stopped soon after they were purchased by Shimano. Last fall I saw bulk spools of Power Pro Dacron for sale. Hopefully supplies will dwindle, but if anyone buys it for fly backing, it's not a good choice.

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Peter,good points.Well taken.Appropriate rigging for the target species is a useful consideration.But on the E coast 30 works for most everything I chase.



The vast majority of my salt fishing is from a sandy beach w/ the exception of Montauk.Yep,plenty rocks up there... got some  flylines and leaders chewed up on fish hooked in the rock gardens.



Snookfly,no genius here,just looked it up on their website... .018 was too good to believe for 30 lb ,lol!



I started using topshots of mono in the Soo rapids fishing steelhead to help me land more of the teen-weight fish I hooked on 4x and do it on most of my reels that I expect to see backing on now.Even my 5 and 6 wts as those are the one I use for carp.


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